Gotway msx or nikola ???

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, Graniteone said:

Reviving this thread as I am thinking about getting the 100V Nikola and wondered how it compared with my 84 MSX? I really enjoy my MSX but I want more range. I have the KS18XL but much prefer the MSX. Can anyone shed some light? Is pedal angle similar? I cruise on the MSX at around 22-26mph when I am free to open her up a bit. I don’t need more top end but happy to have it.  I want to have at least two wheels primed and ready to roll at all times.

Does the Nikola feel more planted? More maneuverable? 

The Nikola is the best riding wheel that you can buy. Period. There are various Nikola threads if you care to discover the whys. I'm starting to get tired of typing about it.

I would highly recommend the 100-volt Nikola Plus for superior power and range.

[Graniteone]

It appears most folks are comparing the Nikola to the 16X and not the MSX. I will dig around some more, I didn’t see anyone mention the pedal angle of the Nikola vs MSX specifically. I rather prefer the MSX pedal angle to a flatter pedal angle. Do all Gotway wheels come with a steep pedal angle? Maybe I am too hung up on this particular area. 

[UniVehje]

10 minutes ago, Graniteone said:

Maybe I am too hung up on this particular area. 

I think you are. Same pedal angle might not work with different wheel body. I’ve not heard anybody complain about Nikola pedal angle. 

[Vanzen]

Huge fan of my MSX.

Tried a Nikola for 30 minutes, hated every seconds ...

Too high, too large, too bulky, seems to have a mind of its own.

To be honnest, I hate high wheels,  V10/KS18, I dont want my knees to touch the body of the wheel to control it. 

[ir_fuel]

On 6/5/2019 at 10:27 PM, Nils said:

No, that doesn't sound like the 3rd alarm, rather the second alarm which triggers at 30 km/h as far as I know. I've yet to hear the third alarm myself, but it should be "5 beep per second(continuously)" according to this post:

Here you can see an example of the Tesla warning:

 

 

That's one lucky Porsche owner over there. Djeez ... 

[Tadas]

1 hour ago, Vanzen said:

Huge fan of my MSX.

Tried a Nikola for 30 minutes, hated every seconds ...

Too high, too large, too bulky, seems to have a mind of its own.

To be honnest, I hate high wheels,  V10/KS18, I dont want my knees to touch the body of the wheel to control it.  

How tall are you?

[Mike Sacristan]

6 hours ago, Graniteone said:

Reviving this thread as I am thinking about getting the 100V Nikola and wondered how it compared with my 84 MSX? I really enjoy my MSX but I want more range. I have the KS18XL but much prefer the MSX. Can anyone shed some light? Is pedal angle similar? I cruise on the MSX at around 22-26mph when I am free to open her up a bit. I don’t need more top end but happy to have it.  I want to have at least two wheels primed and ready to roll at all times.

Does the Nikola feel more planted? More maneuverable? 

How much do you weigh and how tall are you?

I went on a 62km cruise with some friends yesterday. Temperature was 18-20C.

Nikola 100v 1845Wh. 90kg rider. 32% battery left.
Nikola 84v 1600Wh. 90 kg rider. 16% battery left.
MSX 84v 1600Wh. 67kg riding weight (I weigh 64kg). I had 38% battery left.
18XL. 90kg rider. Did some extra km for a total of 70km. Battery at 16%.

So the battery usage was as expected. 1554Wh to 1845Wh is ~20% more. The 100v Nik+ did seem to report on the high side as after 7km it went from 100% to 98%. However I am quite sure that I would have been at almost 50% if it was me riding.

Fastest speed was attained by the 100v Nikola rider and he hit 55kmh. My fastest was 51.8kmh and i'm not comfortable at that speed. Currently practicing at 45kmh.

I tried the Nikolas and the tyre is GREAT. Even on their "high" PSI it behaved very well and did not have the bouncy rebounding characteristics of the MSX tyre. The Nikola tyre is not as much as an elliptical balloon as the MSX and has a more square profile but without any side to side flop. The wheel is very centered and I can transition from forward to backwards riding no problem. The pedals are less angled than the MSX but angled enough. They are not flat feeling like V10 or 18XL. The riding posture and leverage point was a bit high and wide for me but I am 163cm tall. If it were my Nikola I would lower the pads. However that would not change the fact that the MSX is a bit top heavy and at the same time the weight and leverage is lower than on the Nikola. This makes it easier for me to correct the MSX at low speeds but I do have to motorcycle lean at 35kmh and above. The Nikola does require some leaning as well but is a better high speed carver.

The Nikola is a great wheel and can take quite a beating.
The only alternative to the 84v MSX is the 100v MSX with custom added 615Wh pack for 1845Wh or the Nikola 100v 1845Wh. After this you are looking at the Monster 100v.
As you already have an 84v MSX getting a 100v MSX could be redundant. Nikola really ticks all the boxes and with a 5 beep alarm at 65kmh it would take you quite a while to max it out.
If I were to replace my 84 MSX I would replace it with a 100v MSX and not a Nikola though.

30 minutes ago, Vanzen said:

Huge fan of my MSX.

Tried a Nikola for 30 minutes, hated every seconds ...

Too high, too large, too bulky, seems to have a mind of its own.

To be honnest, I hate high wheels,  V10/KS18, I dont want my knees to touch the body of the wheel to control it. 

I agree. It feels high. Maybe you are short and light like I am. I imagine it would require some relearning.
I like the way the 18XL rides except for the flat pedals. Although the wheel in general feels a bit floppy to me off road.

I would need to ride the Nik 100v a few hundred km to make a fair assessment.
Tesla on the other hand clicked instantly for me, as well as ACM.

 

[meepmeepmayer]

7 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

I would highly recommend the 100-volt Nikola Plus for superior power and range.

TWO THOUSAND AND ONE HUNDRED WATTHOURS in the 84V 2100Wh!

The 100V feels more powerful as well? I thought you said they ride the same?

[Marty Backe]

2 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

TWO THOUSAND AND ONE HUNDRED WATTHOURS in the 84V 2100Wh!

The 100V feels more powerful as well? I thought you said they ride the same?

What I meant by power was probably "speed". As soon as I get a charger for the Plus I plan on doing some steep hill side-be-side comparisons between the two wheels to see to what I see.

The 2100wh wheel carries a steep premium in price

[Vanzen]

4 hours ago, Tadas said:

How tall are you?

only 1.80

[Graniteone]

4 hours ago, Mike Sacristan said:

How much do you weigh and how tall are you?

I went on a 62km cruise with some friends yesterday. Temperature was 18-20C.

Nikola 100v 1845Wh. 90kg rider. 32% battery left.
Nikola 84v 1600Wh. 90 kg rider. 16% battery left.
MSX 84v 1600Wh. 67kg riding weight (I weigh 64kg). I had 38% battery left.
18XL. 90kg rider. Did some extra km for a total of 70km. Battery at 16%.

So the battery usage was as expected. 1554Wh to 1845Wh is ~20% more. The 100v Nik+ did seem to report on the high side as after 7km it went from 100% to 98%. However I am quite sure that I would have been at almost 50% if it was me riding.

Fastest speed was attained by the 100v Nikola rider and he hit 55kmh. My fastest was 51.8kmh and i'm not comfortable at that speed. Currently practicing at 45kmh.

I tried the Nikolas and the tyre is GREAT. Even on their "high" PSI it behaved very well and did not have the bouncy rebounding characteristics of the MSX tyre. The Nikola tyre is not as much as an elliptical balloon as the MSX and has a more square profile but without any side to side flop. The wheel is very centered and I can transition from forward to backwards riding no problem. The pedals are less angled than the MSX but angled enough. They are not flat feeling like V10 or 18XL. The riding posture and leverage point was a bit high and wide for me but I am 163cm tall. If it were my Nikola I would lower the pads. However that would not change the fact that the MSX is a bit top heavy and at the same time the weight and leverage is lower than on the Nikola. This makes it easier for me to correct the MSX at low speeds but I do have to motorcycle lean at 35kmh and above. The Nikola does require some leaning as well but is a better high speed carver.

The Nikola is a great wheel and can take quite a beating.
The only alternative to the 84v MSX is the 100v MSX with custom added 615Wh pack for 1845Wh or the Nikola 100v 1845Wh. After this you are looking at the Monster 100v.
As you already have an 84v MSX getting a 100v MSX could be redundant. Nikola really ticks all the boxes and with a 5 beep alarm at 65kmh it would take you quite a while to max it out.
If I were to replace my 84 MSX I would replace it with a 100v MSX and not a Nikola though.

I agree. It feels high. Maybe you are short and light like I am. I imagine it would require some relearning.
I like the way the 18XL rides except for the flat pedals. Although the wheel in general feels a bit floppy to me off road.

I would need to ride the Nik 100v a few hundred km to make a fair assessment.
Tesla on the other hand clicked instantly for me, as well as ACM.

 

Thanks for the information and feedback. I am 88 kg and 1.8m I would have guessed the Nikola 100v 1845 would have more juice left in the tank. My issue besides liking the pedal angle is I live on a very steep hill and when returning from long rides I am rolling up steep hills with close to 1000 feet of elevation gain from the valley floor to my house. Yesterday in 90 degree heat I rolled 58 miles, most of the riding was north of 20mph before reaching the climb to my house and I had 17% battery and just didn’t think I would make it. I called in the support vehicle ( wife ) for pick up. 

Edited August 4, 2019 by Graniteone

[Marty Backe]

26 minutes ago, Graniteone said:

Thanks for the information and feedback. I am 88 kg and 1.8m I would have guessed the Nikola 100v 1845 would have more juice left in the tank. My issue besides liking the pedal angle is I live on a very steep hill and when returning from long rides I am rolling up steep hills with close to 1000 feet of elevation gain from the valley floor to my house. Yesterday in 90 degree heat I rolled 58 miles, most of the riding was north of 20mph before reaching the climb to my house and I had 17% battery and just didn’t think I would make it. I called in the support vehicle ( wife ) for pick up. 

You do realize that 58-miles with a lot of 20+ mph riding is an exception range, even for the Nikola Plus? If that's disappointing then you really need to get the 2100wh Nikola or the 2400wh Monster 

[meepmeepmayer]

@Graniteone A rough estimate is 20Wh/km or 35Wh/mile (18XL and 16X are exceptions) to predict how far a battery will get you if you know the battery size in Wh. For a fast wheel like the Nikola, that's on the optimistic side.

3 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

The 2100wh wheel carries a steep premium in price

Isn't it the same price as the 100V 1845Wh? That's how Gotway always does it. Ali seems to confirm it.

Edited August 4, 2019 by meepmeepmayer

[Marty Backe]

5 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

@Graniteone A rough estimate is 20Wh/km or 35Wh/mile (18XL and 16X are exceptions) to predict how far a battery will get you if you know the battery size in Wh. For a fast wheel like the Nikola, that's on the optimistic side.

Isn't it the same price as the 100V 1845Wh? That's how Gotway always does it. Ali seems to confirm it.

I don't know

[Graniteone]

Jason with eWheels just confirmed they are getting in the 84v 2100wh Nikola in two weeks. I am going to pull the trigger on one. 

[Mike Sacristan]

On 8/4/2019 at 4:42 PM, Graniteone said:

Thanks for the information and feedback. I am 88 kg and 1.8m I would have guessed the Nikola 100v 1845 would have more juice left in the tank. My issue besides liking the pedal angle is I live on a very steep hill and when returning from long rides I am rolling up steep hills with close to 1000 feet of elevation gain from the valley floor to my house. Yesterday in 90 degree heat I rolled 58 miles, most of the riding was north of 20mph before reaching the climb to my house and I had 17% battery and just didn’t think I would make it. I called in the support vehicle ( wife ) for pick up. 

It is easy enough to just guess and add +20% to your range on your MSX and then you will get your expected range on the 100v 1845Wh Nik+.

As Meep says a conservative equation is to take wh/2 and that will give you expected range in KM. Or take 20Wh per km.
You seem to be getting more along the lines of 16Wh per km (same as me) so based on that you would get 120km on the 1845Wh Nik and the 2100Wh has 35% more battery so that much more range will be around 135km. ~55kmh vs ~65kmh wheel though!

As time passes we tend to ride faster and faster. 

[Tadas]

On 8/4/2019 at 12:12 PM, Vanzen said:

To be honnest, I hate high wheels,  V10/KS18, I dont want my knees to touch the body of the wheel to control it. 

So you're 180 cm tall, very interesting perspective , thank you!

I'm still new and trying to figure it all out. I'm 190 cm and here's me standing on ks18xl. The wheel doesn't come close to my knees. I would actually prefer a taller wheel. Is it about leg length? Is ks18xl a short wheel?

[ir_fuel]

Having a taller wheel is not needed. You have plenty of leg contact when/if needed (most of the time, not). Don't worry.

[kelec_947]

On 04/08/2019 at 05:06, Graniteone said:

Vous relancez ce fil alors que je songe à acheter le Nikola 100 V et me demande comment il se compare à mon 84 MSX? J'apprécie vraiment mon MSX mais je veux plus de gamme. J'ai le KS18XL mais préfère de beaucoup le MSX. Quelqu'un peut-il nous éclairer? L'angle de la pédale est-il similaire? Je navigue sur le MSX à environ 22-26 mph lorsque je suis libre de l’ouvrir un peu. Je n'ai pas besoin de plus haut de gamme mais heureux de l'avoir. Je veux avoir au moins deux roues apprêtées et prêtes à rouler en tout temps.

Le Nikola se sent plus planté? Plus maniable? 

Hey, why you prefer msx vs KS18XL ? thanks

[Graniteone]

53 minutes ago, kelec_947 said:

Hey, why you prefer msx vs KS18XL ? thanks

Pour moi, le MSX se sent plus planté et réactif. La sécurité des pédales coudées est pour moi un avantage. Cheers! 

[Darrell Wesh]

On 8/4/2019 at 5:12 AM, Vanzen said:

Huge fan of my MSX.

Tried a Nikola for 30 minutes, hated every seconds ...

Too high, too large, too bulky, seems to have a mind of its own.

To be honnest, I hate high wheels,  V10/KS18, I dont want my knees to touch the body of the wheel to control it. 

lol I guarantee your knees aren’t touching the wheel, what a huge exaggeration. 

I kind of felt letdown by the Nikola for the first couple rides. My MSX felt superior. I was thinking I wasted my money and should have gotten a 100v Monster. But give it time. The Nikola is a monster all on its own. The acceleration is leagues better then the MSX. And the top speed might be even better than the 100v MSX... I hit 40mph with only two beeps today with a slight tailwind. 

The wheel is much more responsive then the MSX, though not as stable. I now don’t miss the uncomfortable MSX pedals that induced wobbles, even though in the beginning I did. The flatter XL Nikola pedals are much more comfortable and I experienced zero wobbles no matter how low I got or how fast I went or stopped. 

Its a no brainer to get a Nikola over an MSX for anyone debating. 

[Marty Backe]

37 minutes ago, Darrell Wesh said:

lol I guarantee your knees aren’t touching the wheel, what a huge exaggeration. 

I kind of felt letdown by the Nikola for the first couple rides. My MSX felt superior. I was thinking I wasted my money and should have gotten a 100v Monster. But give it time. The Nikola is a monster all on its own. The acceleration is leagues better then the MSX. And the top speed might be even better than the 100v MSX... I hit 40mph with only two beeps today with a slight tailwind. 

The wheel is much more responsive then the MSX, though not as stable. I now don’t miss the uncomfortable MSX pedals that induced wobbles, even though in the beginning I did. The flatter XL Nikola pedals are much more comfortable and I experienced zero wobbles no matter how low I got or how fast I went or stopped. 

Its a no brainer to get a Nikola over an MSX for anyone debating. 

 

"I hit 40mph"   and you are a crazy man 

[Afeez Kay]

1 hour ago, Darrell Wesh said:

lol I guarantee your knees aren’t touching the wheel, what a huge exaggeration. 

I kind of felt letdown by the Nikola for the first couple rides. My MSX felt superior. I was thinking I wasted my money and should have gotten a 100v Monster. But give it time. The Nikola is a monster all on its own. The acceleration is leagues better then the MSX. And the top speed might be even better than the 100v MSX... I hit 40mph with only two beeps today with a slight tailwind. 

The wheel is much more responsive then the MSX, though not as stable. I now don’t miss the uncomfortable MSX pedals that induced wobbles, even though in the beginning I did. The flatter XL Nikola pedals are much more comfortable and I experienced zero wobbles no matter how low I got or how fast I went or stopped. 

Its a no brainer to get a Nikola over an MSX for anyone debating. 

Wow

Edited August 7, 2019 by Afeez Kay

[houseofjob]

2 hours ago, Darrell Wesh said:

I hit 40mph with only two beeps today with a slight tailwind. 

nice! was this flats or downhill?

[Darrell Wesh]

2 hours ago, houseofjob said:

nice! was this flats or downhill?

Started on a Slight downhill that flattened and then turned to slight uphill on a 35mph road with cars. I don’t think I reached it till I was on the flat though and maybe even on the slight uphill was when it started beeping. The key was the tailwind though IMO. A small 9mph tailwind instead of going against a headwind. 

I think this wheel could go 42mph for the 5 beeps on a flat with a tailwind. Continues to surprise me. 

There were no wobbles or feelings of unsteadiness from the wheel. I did hit a bump around 35-40mph that’s unavoidable in the road where I was and it didn’t feel like I would get thrown off (maybe that’s just my good leg suspension though)

 

Edited August 8, 2019 by Darrell Wesh