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Hatchet

Absolutely gutted :*(

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It would be nice if we had a country by country and/or US state by state quick-read compendium of applicable laws.

I can't even see EUC's listed in my state laws, and am not confident local police will handle things other than by a summary "No, you can't" and/or ticket.

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I am in Colorado right now.  The state law is similar to B.C., basically saying that anything with a wheel smaller than 14" and not built to motor vehicle standards is a "toy vehicle" and thus not legal on roads, sidewalks, or trails. 

In a state park yesterday I asked one of the law enforcement rangers about using my EUC on the bike paths in the park.  He asked a few questions ("Does it have pedals?"  "Is it like a hoverboard?") and finally concluded that the statutes as written don't cover it.  He decided it was allowable, but that's just one man's opinion.  I suspect elsewhere in Colorado I may run into a challenge.

@Hatchet  While it's tempting to rant and rave about the unfairness of things to our elected officials (and believe me, I feel your pain!)  you'll get the best progress with a calm, rational discussion of why the law should be made explicit to allow EUCs wherever pedestrians can go.  That's what @dbfrese did in Arizona, successfully.  But he had a leg up since we already had a "Segway law" on the books that allowed two wheeled self-balancing vehicles.  In B.C. it sounds like you've got little to start with. 

Try researching the tactics used by Segway to pass similar laws in most US states.  They were very successful and might provide a model for your approach in Canada.  Good luck!

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Posted (edited)

I still think a concerted negative campaign, targeting a few specific politicians/elected offices(especially police)/a party in tight race/situation at the right time, with the explicit goal of them losing some election (or just as a show of what could be), over the refusal to legalize EUCs and other electric transport properly or other harassment, might be worth doing once. Carrot is fine, but if it does not work, you need a stick in the mind of people who otherwise know they have nothing to lose by banning EUCs.

Nothing gets over inconsideration/lazyness faster than FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt). Makes people use their brains. I'd be willing to invest the price of a EUC into that in the right situation.

--

For now, I think going to the press and repeating the "electric cars are still cars, but real alternatives are banned, what a joke" argument is a good (and still positive) next step. They seem to not have listened to non-public citizens' complaints and requests for long enough.

Edited by meepmeepmayer

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5 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

I still think a concerted negative campaign, targeting a few specific politicians/elected offices(especially police)/a party in tight race/situation at the right time, with the explicit goal of them losing some election (or just as a show of what could be), over the refusal to legalize EUCs and other electric transport properly or other harassment, might be worth doing once. Carrot is fine, but if it does not work, you need a stick in the mind of people who otherwise know they have nothing to lose by banning EUCs.

 

Would that really be a credible threat though?

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2 hours ago, Dingfelder said:

It would be nice if we had a country by country and/or US state by state quick-read compendium of applicable laws.

I can't even see EUC's listed in my state laws, and am not confident local police will handle things other than by a summary "No, you can't" and/or ticket.

I really don't think the police can make laws on the spot, so I wouldn't worry about it. The places in the States that have made laws have written them regarding Segways or hoverboards. I would use those terms to search your state regulations.

EUCs just aren't that popular here so the police leave us alone.

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4 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

The places in the States that have made laws have written them regarding Segways or hoverboards. I would use those terms to search your state regulations.

The most common legal term for Segways in the various state statutes is "electric personal assistive mobility device," or sometimes "EPAMD" as an abbreviation. Most of these laws specify two "non-tandem" wheels (side by side) in the. another term to look for is "self-balancing". The definitions are some of the most important aspects of a law -- don't forget to look at them first! They are also among the easiest things to get modified. too!

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Posted (edited)

Yes this is true. I also claimed that EUCs are not a problem in my town since I am the only one around. If they would start to pop up over night it would probably become a problem and new laws prohibiting them would be created. Have had nothing but positive attitudes towards my riding and try to be considerate of everyone else while still having fun. I think they say (there is that guy one the wheel again instead of there is another one of those wheels) Our police seem to think of them in the same way as a bicycle and I always stress the word unicycle when describing them

Edited by Steve Persona

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How much is a motorcycle insurance? When talking to agent do not say it is a electric unicycle but a plain ole motorcycle... 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

I really don't think the police can make laws on the spot, so I wouldn't worry about it. The places in the States that have made laws have written them regarding Segways or hoverboards. I would use those terms to search your state regulations.

EUCs just aren't that popular here so the police leave us alone.

I'm not thinking police fancy themselves legislators.  I do worry that they could be arbitrary and capricious, and imagine anyone can be ignorant about something they haven't given much thought to.  I do think that if a policeman wants to write you a ticket or take out his or her bad day on you, a way can be found.  

I have seen stuff about other things like hoverboards and pocket bikes and segways and scooters and bicycles and wheelchairs, but since they aren't EUC's, that hasn't clarified much to me yet.  I'm thinking I might make a visit to a local police station when I get my EUC, familiarize them with what one is, and see what they have to say face to face.  There aren't a whole lot of police in the woefully underfunded police department in this small city, so even just getting to know them and saying hello might work in my favor.

"Check it out, it's that guy!" vs. "What the hell is that guy doing?"

Edited by Dingfelder
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44 minutes ago, Shemp said:

In California EUCs are permitted as electric personal assistive mobility devices. The law specifically says "two wheeled" but it has been construed to include unicycles. They can be ridden on city streets, in bike lanes, and on sidewalks. Users are required to be 16 or older and wear a helmet,  adhere to traffic rules, dismount/yield as conditions require, but other than those restrictions, people are free to ride EUCs pretty much wherever they want.

I think if California specifically embraces EUC's that would be massive. All we need is one state to say yes, and many others will be like "Well, we don't know what to do about the little wheel thingies but it looks like other states said yes to it so I guess we take the easy way and just go with everyone else". The same effect though if one state outright bans them. It is a pivotal time for EUCs.

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California is an immensely influential style-setter, so whatever it does always has a chance for a big spill-over effect onto other states across the nation.

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The problem is that states are very different in their attitudes.  California leads the nation in progressive policies regarding almost everything but not all states follow.

For example, in Colorado there's a sharp difference of opinion because the many of the outdoorsy types (people who would other embrace solar power and electric vehicles) don't want to see "motorized" vehicles on forest trails.  Even e-bikes had to go through a long battle before being accepted on trails here.  The laws in this state are written specifically to exclude almost every sort of powered thing. Without some heavy lobbying Colorado will likely remain one of the least EUC-friendly states in the nation.

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19 minutes ago, Ombre said:

Without some heavy lobbying Colorado will likely remain one of the least EUC-friendly states in the nation.

Hey, isn't weed legal now, come on, give them a break, now everything has to be legal?:P

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7 hours ago, Jason McNeil said:

Netherlands: in the land of the bicycle, general ban prevails, but Segways are permitted.

Segways are permitted.  Hmm, Ninebot bought Segway.  So Ninebots are branded now as Ninebot by Segway.  That means that anywhere Segway is permitted, you can ride a Ninebot.  Brilliant!  Now I can see why Ninebot bought Segway, not for the technology, which they already had somehow, but for the permissions already built in place that Segway had done the legwork for.  So if a cop stops me, I just say it's a Segway, no ticket, case closed.  Segway even markets a police three wheeler, so most police will know what a Segway is, especially in larger metropolitan areas.  Ha!  That's where Ninebot beats Gotway @Marty Backe  Ha Ha Ha!  Just clinging to that one little thing to keep from falling in to sadness.:P

But seriously, Gotway would be my next wheel if I get another one.:wub:

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4 hours ago, MetricUSA said:

How much is a motorcycle insurance? When talking to agent do not say it is a electric unicycle but a plain ole motorcycle... 

Unfortunately insurance agents will still request manufacturer name, model, engine ci and vin #. Suppose you could just print out a document from your computer with all of the pertinent info and then wait to see how long before it takes before you go to trial!:laughbounce2:

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4 hours ago, MetricUSA said:

How much is a motorcycle insurance? When talking to agent do not say it is a electric unicycle but a plain ole motorcycle... 

Maybe say it is a Segway, I bet they have insurance for them.

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7 minutes ago, Hatchet said:

Here is some additional info.

I rode to work and back today, plus a short trip to the store and still have my wheel (so far..).

I had stage 3 rectal cancer and part of the reason i bought the wheel is because any walking of distance makes me violently ill (nausea) and takes hours of bed rest to get over. Cycling still makes me pump my legs, and the effect is the same, my insides go bananas and I puke for hours. The wheel allows me to simply stand as we all know. I am going through chemo post-op right now.

That said, I have collected all my medical info from my surgeon today after work, and I have an appt to do the same from my GP, both of which have treated me for my nausea problem. I am going to get docs from the BCCA (Cancer agency)as well. I plan to at least threaten to sue the city, Ministry of Transport, and any other agency I can attach as culpable like ICBC or the VPD even, for harassment and discrimination of disabled people who need help getting around, but not in a wheelchair, as my spine is fine, my guts are the problem.

I am just a normal nobody though, so I need to contact Pivot Society and see if I can get some free legal advice. I don't really want to sue, i want to become a possible embarrassment to the so-called "green" hippies at city hall and the Ministry of Transport (who are the one's who actually can change the law). I'm not afraid to even ask why they are harassing a cancer patient with a chemo bag strapped to his chest for riding 7-10 kph on a paved park trail. I want to have my ducks in a row, in case I do get nailed by that cop (for court), and I will be emailing Global News (local station) tonight with my tale of woe. Though I am terrible camera shy.

ICBC replied:

"Thank you for your May 16, 2017 email to ICBC regarding electric unicycles. It has been referred to me in the ICBC Customer Relations department for response.
 
ICBC does not have any authority over the Motor Assisted Cycles legislation. Any changes to the definition of a Motor Assisted Cycle under that legislation would be the responsibility of the Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure, and I have referred your email to the Ministry for their review"

So I am off to their website to fire off another email to another bureaucrat.

Edit: BTW, If you find yourself going to the toilet far too often, feel "blocked" sometimes or especially of you bleed when you go. Get a colonoscopy, do not put it off, take my word for it. It ain't fun, but just do it.

 

Sorry to hear about your cancer, my mum had it also and yes people please take his advice don't hold off on things like this, I hope you get the all clear soon and to be able to ride legally soon also.

Good Luck

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Good luck, Hatchet, and it's nice to see your resolve when it comes to fighting for your rights.  

Hunka had a good idea about getting a statement form TremF too.  There is power in numbers and a good story, and he has both.  Couldn't hurt to add it to your own story so you don't sound like a lone voice.

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32 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

For grins it may help to place a Handicap placard on the side of your wheel. That in combination with a short letter/note from your doctor perhaps would be enough to keep any police officer from doing anything other than talking to you. They are human after all and most are not seeking to make peoples lives hell.

You can see that my view of life is on the charitable side :)  I try not to presuppose the worst and instead deal with adversities as they occur.

But best of luck with your fight, but that bureau-speak letter is scary

That, is a brilliant idea. I am going to get a sticker, i will have a note from my doctor too, I have an appt in a week. I wonder if there are "cool" handicap stickers now, that still look legit. I must Google!

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