Jump to content

Does the GW MSuper V3s+ regenerate when braking?


Catlord17

Recommended Posts

I keep hearing people talk about how some of these wheels will regenerate the battery when the unit is braking or going downhill.  Does the GotWay MSuper V3s+ do this?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 55
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Well heck, just more and more things I have to wait for this wheel to arrive to figure out.  But it's good to know that there's at least a good chance it has regenerative braking.  Thanks guys!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is an unusually gigantic drop in charge (at 25 on horiz. Axis) before your recharge back up to 50 percent.

What terrain feature does the long battery drop correspond to? ?

Can you show an elevation profile under the battery discharge curve? Paste over a Google Earth elevation profile for the GPS path?

If you average out the 'noisy' graph data with its ups and downs the discharge is generally a smooth curve passing over a steep discharge (2x size)and apparent regenerative charge section (1x size) from 20 to 35 on the  horizontal axis.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's actually not a huge amount of regeneration as I still get pretty near 25% battery at the end of 16.5 km,  but there are some uphills.  I'm averaging 20 kph which is just under tiltback.

I believe that large drop is when I hit "the climb."  There is a moderate hill in the pathway that goes from street level to the top of a ravine area which takes me about 5 minutes to get up.  The Ninebot heats up to about 53C at the peak.  The drop could be just the battery straining under climbing load?  The bot slows down to about 12 kph going up the hill.  I can give it some slight, quick overlean pushes to make it beep which likely is a current draw warning?

Google Earth?  Ah me don't know how to use it.  :wacko:  I use to run MapMyRide, but I switched back to a non-jailbroken mode so I lost that app.  It used to give me an elevation graph.  I take a loop back so I go down the same hill climb later on, but I think I get back only about 1/3 (if that) of what I used to climb it.

Here's the matching power graph:

674490_img2933.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wheels are pretty much forced to have regenerative braking. Due to how electric motors work.

Put electromagnetic field on a magnet -> magnet wants to move. That's how a motor moves.

Move magnet (when the motor rotates) -> create electromagentic field. That field induces a current that can either charge your batteries back (if your induced current is higher than what you need to use for riding down a hill, you're net positive), or you have to get rid of it somehow else (heats something up, which is why you don't have 100% efficiency in regenerative braking), but it's necessarily there.

As far as I'm informed (which isn't much;)), back EMF (the motor basically counteracting itself the faster it goes) could also be argued to be (regenerative, I assume) braking.

--

So your msuper V3 1600Wh has it, as has any other wheel here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Wheels are pretty much forced to have regenerative braking. Due to how electric motors work.

Defining 'noise' on the battery charge graph.

On the basis of a local (small graph time span) battery peak charge value attained after a positive 'slope' segment

+ (slope) goes up from R to L (battery charging)

- (slope) goes down from R to L (battery discharging)

There are twenty or so battery regenerative + slope segments on the graph where the larger  one at 30-35 (horiz. Axis) segment corresponds to riding down a hill.

The other 19 correspond to what?

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

It's actually not a huge amount of regeneration as I still get pretty near 25% battery at the end of 16.5 km,  but there are some uphills.  I'm averaging 20 kph which is just under tiltback.

I believe that large drop is when I hit "the climb."  There is a moderate hill in the pathway that goes from street level to the top of a ravine area which takes me about 5 minutes to get up.  The Ninebot heats up to about 53C at the peak.  The drop could be just the battery straining under climbing load?  The bot slows down to about 12 kph going up the hill.  I can give it some slight, quick overlean pushes to make it beep which likely is a current draw warning?

Google Earth?  Ah me don't know how to use it.  :wacko:  I use to run MapMyRide, but I switched back to a non-jailbroken mode so I lost that app.  It used to give me an elevation graph.  I take a loop back so I go down the same hill climb later on, but I think I get back only about 1/3 (if that) of what I used to climb it.

Here's the matching power graph:

674490_img2933.png

That's what I figured too -- the steep drop must have been a climb ... but then you go from about 28 to 50 on what must be your regenerative downhill phase.  That's 22%, or almost a quarter of your possible charge.  That is far from trivial, unless I'm totally misunderstanding something ... which is usually the most likely option when it comes to this sort of thing of course.  But still, the graph seemed clear enough and we agreed on the genesis of the drop so I don't think I'm completely out in the wilds of nonsense here ...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Could wheels benefit from a single simple disk brake to "help" when going down a steep hill?

If I'm reading this correctly, that means all the excess energy has to be dispelled as heat through the motherboard or electronics.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

Could wheels benefit from a single simple disk brake to "help" when going down a steep hill?

Theoretically yes, if it can be controlled fast and accurate enough by the mb to keep up balancing - so practically no.

26 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

If I'm reading this correctly, that means all the excess energy has to be dispelled as heat through the motherboard or electronics.

And sometimes some recharging of the battery... Also the batteries dispell some energy as heat.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, Chriull said:

Theoretically yes, if it can be controlled fast and accurate enough by the mb to keep up balancing - so practically no.

And sometimes some recharging of the battery... Also the batteries dispell some energy as heat.

In regards to keeping the wheel balanced while braking, could the motor provide the balance like it usually does but using less wattage?

Lol. Maybe just stick a much bigger motor instead, and add like four fans? I don't think any wheel yet comes with fans although I did read of users adding fans.

Can you imagine the testing on such wheels? Go down a 20,000 foot road and see what breaks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

I don't think any wheel yet comes with fans although I did read of users adding fans.

There are fans in the KS14d, KS16alltypes, KS18AYand S and in the GW Monster :-)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, WARPed1701D said:

@Hunka Hunka Burning Love I would be interested to see the graph of you taking that hill and then resting at the top to see how much the battery recovered voltage off load without the added input from regen braking. Off you go. ;)

Sure I'll try to remember to do a hill climb + rest recording on my next trip.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My KS16C has a 16s4p battery config - the MSuper V3s+ 20s6p. But from the firmware there always were quite some similarities between GW and KS...

I had a short downhill ride today with my KS16C. 3,4km according to KS, 2,8 km according to GPS ;) Altidute (GPS) dropped from 218m to 163m.

The current graph is unfortionately absolutely messed up  - either the logging or the data transmission had quite a prob... ;(

But however - at the first steep decline one sees the voltage rising (regen charging), then staying quite constant in average and just in the end really consuming power.

I started out with 58,49V (some hours rest before - the last ride ended with 57,52V), ended this ride with 57,86V. After some rest the battery showed again 58,31V

I3t5z3W.jpg

 

The very first part (~0...3min) going up looks like this (with a GPS disconnect - i did not drop in a hole and climbed out again...). This was also the one ride which ended with the 57,52V.

zAy4uuJ.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, Catlord17 said:

I keep hearing people talk about how some of these wheels will regenerate the battery when the unit is braking or going downhill.  Does the GotWay MSuper V3s+ do this?

I get probably 30% longer range when riding mine in the mountains vs flat ground. I pulled that figure out of my butt, but it's fair to say that the extended range from regeneration is substantial.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I get probably 30% longer range when riding mine in the mountains vs flat ground. I pulled that figure out of my butt, but it's fair to say that the extended range from regeneration is substantial.

My concern is my Monster will overheat and pop going up hills.

Oh wait...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

My concern is my Monster will overheat and pop going up hills.

Oh wait...

I've been improving my hill climbing speeds on the Monster. It still takes more effort and strategy to climb hills with the Monster, but if done probably it can actually scream up hills. The key is to not go slow but to accelerate up the hill. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

So when's the Marty knee mod lean assist thingy being revealed?  Plus the TFU NZ/SoCal ride video?  :popcorn:

Video editing is painfully time consuming sometimes :(

I'm on the fence right now whether I'll try that mod. For shorter climbs I'm digging my knees into the pads and driving forward.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

I've been improving my hill climbing speeds on the Monster. It still takes more effort and strategy to climb hills with the Monster, but if done probably it can actually scream up hills. The key is to not go slow but to accelerate up the hill. 

Or sit on it

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The regenerative behavior can be viewed by recording the parameters by Wheellog(it is just an app, no need for instrument) as can be seen by one of my up/down riding record(of my V3s+) when the battery is nearly full.

The voltage was dropped to around 80V when uphill because it draws certain current from the battery. It stabled at around 82.5V at the top while I was having a break and the current is very low. When downhill, the voltage raised above 83V most of the time indicating a regenerative charging.
20170518.thumb.gif.f0ff1e7e5f7edc485408c3005e500c06.gif

As can be seen from a GPS track app(the elevation is based on the barometer in the phone though, so the relative height is accurate), the slope is very constant at about 11%(900 meters long, 100 meters in altitude difference)
20170518XZ.thumb.gif.2876b314e6d7364f287500d3489657d9.gif

However, the profile shown by Google Earth is not very accurate(the elevation jumps up down, and falls at the end) probably because the scale is small or map deviation.
20170518GE.thumb.jpg.5b7969cdb96f305b6e3d6c63efe33d6b.jpg

Edit: on one of my previous measurement of riding up/down the same slope, the up consumed 49.6Wh and down charged 15.9Wh, therefore the return is about 32%.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...