If you fell off EUC and got injured in the last few years, how are you all doing now?

[caelus]

I don't think, that's a good way for a fruitful discussion.

[ir_fuel]

Ok enough about this.

Could we please discuss the fact that the earth is flat now? There are plenty of articles on the internet that prove this.

[kasenutty]

5 minutes ago, caelus said:

I don't think, that's a good way for a fruitful discussion.

 

Not everything thinks the same thing, caelus. If me and you told each other to fuck themselves for 50 lines, that'd be fruitful to me.

 

High fives are great, but without slaps in the face, they'd lose their meaning. 

[Scatcat]

1 hour ago, caelus said:

What kind of habit is that to give negative rep on each post??

Well I didn't, but I think it's anger.

You came into the discussion rather cocksure, more or less kidnapping the topic with an attitude of: "all your precautions are counterproductive, you're all tricked and have bought the bullshit."

That doesn't fly. It's abrasive and rather offensive.

If you check the poll about the people hanging out here, you'll notice that a lot of people here are in "the prime" of their lives. That is from their late thirties to late fifties. That means we know who we are, we have heard it all before, and we're not the most patient with besserwisser bullsh-t. You may think it's not, that it's God's Own Truth, but that doesn't really matter for the impression of a f-ing know-it-all-better-than-all-the-rest-of-us.

I think the annoyance gets an extra kick because we well know we're engaging in a risky hobby. We have responsibilities and we're doing what we can to meet them without actually stopping having fun. One strategy to combine those obviously opposing extremes are active safety, like riding sensibly. Some prefer that to protection, and that's their choice. Another strategy is protecting yourself as best you can - as in padding your knees, elbows, shoulders, back, wrists, using a helmet and so on.

We KNOW no protection is perfect. It's just what's available, and we stack whatever odds we can steal, borrow or buy, to make our risky hobby as safe-ish as we can.

[Stan Onymous]

2 hours ago, caelus said:

What kind of habit is that to give negative rep on each post??

What sort of a recidivist Nimrod would say its a firmware problem without knowing what the firmware was addressing? You constantly interject the wrong opinion and whats worse, an ill informed dangerously wrong opinion on issues you have absolutely no understanding of. 

The wise man listens more than he speaks. Thats how he learns.

[US69]

2 hours ago, caelus said:

What kind of habit is that to give negative rep on each post??

Sorry, but its getting harder and harder to not to do that...

i have given you a lengthy explanation on my last post why and when cut-outs happen and about that -Sorry: nonsense- Temperature guess....

You behave like you didn't even recognize, did not answer at all, and are still going on your standpoint, that a cutout by normal driving can not be reached. Again: ALL wheels cutout on their max speed, has NOTHING to do with temperature, and everyone , who is stupid enough, can bring his wheel to that point. Some members even tried to explain in technical detail why this happens and can not be otherwise....but you just did not recognize that?

And when someone seams that ignorant to all arguments...then in the end negative reputation is  one of the last ways to express what to think about a statement.

With no offense: I am here a quite long time...and over this long time i have given about maximum 10 negative reps! Maximum!

And 4-5 of them have been for you, as the point is reached where i can only scratch my head! You know: if you dont believe the people in THIS thread...go and look for other threads about this discussion, over the whole forum, but i guess this is to much work???

 

So in the end: You can have the opinion, that helmets are nonsense, and cutouts never happen....but then you have to live with the outcome of several negative reputations and contra arguments...as more experienced drivers do want to make clear for potential newcomers, what the real dangers of EUC driving are and get them aware of what they are doing! And as you are driving the -famous- GW V3 now....i can only warn you, too!

[Marty Backe]

49 minutes ago, Scatcat said:

Well I didn't, but I think it's anger.

You came into the discussion rather cocksure, more or less kidnapping the topic with an attitude of: "all your precautions are counterproductive, you're all tricked and have bought the bullshit."

That doesn't fly. It's abrasive and rather offensive.

If you check the poll about the people hanging out here, you'll notice that a lot of people here are in "the prime" of their lives. That is from their late thirties to late fifties. That means we know who we are, we have heard it all before, and we're not the most patient with besserwisser bullsh-t. You may think it's not, that it's God's Own Truth, but that doesn't really matter for the impression of a f-ing know-it-all-better-than-all-the-rest-of-us.

I think the annoyance gets an extra kick because we well know we're engaging in a risky hobby. We have responsibilities and we're doing what we can to meet them without actually stopping having fun. One strategy to combine those obviously opposing extremes are active safety, like riding sensibly. Some prefer that to protection, and that's their choice. Another strategy is protecting yourself as best you can - as in padding your knees, elbows, shoulders, back, wrists, using a helmet and so on.

We KNOW no protection is perfect. It's just what's available, and we stack whatever odds we can steal, borrow or buy, to make our risky hobby as safe-ish as we can.

Beautifully said 

[Scatcat]

28 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Beautifully said 

Thanks man!

[kasenutty]

Indeed, very well put. 

 

I had never given a negative until this guy, and not because he's dangerous, it's because he's an asshole who's saying he's better than everyone else. 

 

"I ride fast forever with no helmet because I'm not a retarded piece of shit like you guys!" 

 

That's how I read every single thing he posts. Going fast with no helmet is NO problem, but when you start telling others they should do it too and they are either A- A pussy or B- an idiot, fuck that shit, and fuck you dude. 

[Marty Backe]

2 minutes ago, kasenutty said:

Indeed, very well put. 

 

I had never given a negative until this guy, and not because he's dangerous, it's because he's an asshole who's saying he's better than everyone else. 

 

"I ride fast forever with no helmet because I'm not a retarded piece of shit like you guys!" 

 

That's how I read every single thing he posts. Going fast with no helmet is NO problem, but when you start telling others they should do it too and they are either A- A pussy or B- an idiot, fuck that shit, and fuck you dude. 

 

[LanghamP]

I don't know how he could think like that. I don't know, man, I think EUCs are the most crash prone vehicles I've ever ridden. It always feels like I'm on the edge of disaster, and indeed I'm guessing I've fallen between 50 to 80 times. Easily. Maybe a dozen times in intersections, and a ton of times around curbs that I did not see, even some cracks around pavements. Once on a garden hose. 

One moment you're enjoying the ride, but the next thing you're walking on air, or rolling. You carve into even the tiniest twig, and then it's crash time.

I bought a helmet the first day I rode an EUCs, because it felt so sketchy. And recently I got the Bell 3 full-face helmet. 

[caelus]

1 hour ago, KingSong69 said:

and are still going on your standpoint, that a cutout by normal driving can not be reached.

cut-out speed.
Under load, you cannot reach the nominal UPM of a lift test where the wheel cuts out on speed, as in the loaded case there's just not enough torque to accelerate so far. Or as EUC extrem has put it here: "This amount has nothing to do with the engine off. Speed is the one who turns the engine off. Wattage can surely tilt the front of the pedals, but does not turn the engine off. Can easily drive to 5000W readings without cutting. Though kilometers uphill."

However, we do know from loaded bench tests, that wheels do cut out on overload. That might be temp related. I am not aware of any test figuring that out more precisely. Maybe you can point me to some? 

Edited September 7, 2017 by caelus

[US69]

4 minutes ago, caelus said:

cut-out speed.
Under load, you cannot reach the nominal UPM of a lift test where the wheel cuts out on speed, as in the loaded case there's just not enough torque to accelerate so far. Or as EUC extrem has put it here: "This amount has nothing to do with the engine off. Speed is the one who turns the engine off. Wattage can surely tilt the front of the pedals, but does not turn the engine off. Can easily drive to 5000W readings without cutting. Though kilometers uphill."

However, we do know from loaded bench tests, that wheels do cut out on overload. That might be temp related. I am not aware of any test figuring that out more precisely. Maybe you can point me to some? 

i give up...

[Keith]

6 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

i give up...

I gave up way back on Monday as below: he will probably understand it all OK after a good wack on the head when he overspeeds his Gotway ?

 

Edited September 7, 2017 by Keith

[caelus]

27 minutes ago, kasenutty said:

Going fast with no helmet is NO problem, ...

My point is, that helmets, apparently, don't help, as there is overwhelming statistical evidence on that from other means of transport and sports. So it remains as dangerous to go fast, whether you are wearing a helmet or not.

Whether you trust those statistics or have other arguments is part of the discussion. No need to feel offended or offend others.

[kasenutty]

 

Just now, caelus said:

My point is, that helmets, apparently, don't help, as there is overwhelming statistical evidence on that from other means of transport and sports. So it remains as dangerous to go fast, whether you are wearing a helmet or not.

Whether you trust those statistics or have other arguments is part of the discussion. No need to feel offended or offend others.

 

 

Maybe they work, maybe they don't, the point is that YOU don't get to decide for US. We don't get to decide for you either. Isn't that nice? 

[ir_fuel]

5 minutes ago, caelus said:

My point is, that helmets, apparently, don't help, as there is overwhelming statistical evidence on that from other means of transport and sports. So it remains as dangerous to go fast, whether you are wearing a helmet or not.

Whether you trust those statistics or have other arguments is part of the discussion. No need to feel offended or offend others.

Funny that you completely ignore the nuances brought up in one of the articles that you use as proof that helmets don't work. (The one about skiing). Of course they can't save you from everything. What it basically states is that, helmet or not, if you crash hard enough to get a brain injury, you'll get a brain injury. But what it also states is that if you have a less severe crash, your injuries are less severe than without a helmet.

If you crash into a wall at 80 km/h head-first you will die. Helmet or no helmet. Conclusion: helmets are bullshit because they don't save you in this case. However if you crash at 20 km/h a helmet will make a difference. But let's ignore that and focus on the 80 km/h case for 16 pages ....

 

But anyway, let's talk about the earth being flat.

 

 

[ir_fuel]

22 minutes ago, caelus said:

My point is, that helmets, apparently, don't help, as there is overwhelming statistical evidence on that from other means of transport and sports. So it remains as dangerous to go fast, whether you are wearing a helmet or not.

Whether you trust those statistics or have other arguments is part of the discussion. No need to feel offended or offend others.

You can win any discussion by claiming that all evidence presented to you is "false" (or, "fake news" to coin a cool term) and that only your "evidence" is right (just as flat earthers do).

https://blogs.crikey.com.au/theurbanist/2016/09/26/do-bicycle-helmets-work/

https://theconversation.com/bike-helmets-an-emergency-doctors-perspective-13935

https://sites.google.com/site/bicyclehelmetmythsandfacts/

 

[caelus]

6 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

You can win any discussion by claiming that all evidence presented to you is "false" ...

There is a discrepancy of case control studies and time series studies, yes. That's why there is such debate. Figuring out which arguments are more convincing is part of the discussion. Its not about winning or loosing it. 

[Stan Onymous]

@caelus His studies that he claim show helmets dont work, actually show their efficacy in speeds slower than 30kp/h. Even his evidence is against him. To say the issue is unsettled is bizarre.

The freedom to choose lets you choose to be stupid, and you are overexercising that freedom. It does not extend to you trying to defend your freedom with lies and half truths. That actually makes others think that you cant discern the difference between freedom and ignorance. That is a dangerous cocktail and you are its poster child. Thats why regulations are written. So you are a cause of your own discomfort and are exceedingly blind to it. You are your own worst enemy.

[Stan Onymous]

So to bring this conversation back to the topic of how are you recovering from a EUC injury, I have one thats tricky.

My worst injury as far as chronic pain and mobility issues happened when I stepped off my wheel to let someone else ride it. Not that the injury of their superior riding skills crushed my spirit, I got over that, but from running along side of them after not having run for 2 years.

I ran about 4-5 miles on Monday and I am still having problems going down stairs or rising quickly from the couch for a therapy beer. Even when I busted up my hand from no wrist guards, I still had my other hand to use. Sure I couldnt drive a stick shift for a week, but I could tow them with my auto trans Pickup truck. 

This is why people who run or bike for that matter always look pained while doing their activity. They are envisioning the added pain of the after ride. This is also why I always smile when I ride even if it creeps them out at weird hours of the day and night.

Edited September 7, 2017 by Stan Onymous
Comedy

[Marty Backe]

1 minute ago, Stan Onymous said:

So to bring this conversation back to the topic of how are you recovering from a EUC injury, I have one thats tricky.

My worst injury as far as chronic pain and mobility issues happened when I stepped off my wheel to let someone else ride it. Not that the injury of their superior riding skills crushed my spirit, but from running along side of them after not having run for 2 years.

I ran about 4-5 miles on Monday and I am still having problems going down stairs or rising quickly from the couch for a therapy beer. Even when I busted up my hand from no wrist guards, I still had my other hand to use. Sure I couldnt drive a stick shift for a week, but I could tow them with my auto trans Pickup truck. 

This is why people who run or bike for that matter always look pained while doing their activity. They are envisioning the added pain of the after ride. This is also why I always smile when I ride even if it creeps them out at weird hours of the day and night.

Knowing the backstory to your comment, this is so funny   Sorry if I'm laughing at your discomfort. We did offer to run in your place, but you were having none of it 

Take our offer next time - hopefully there won't be a next time 

[Stan Onymous]

Just now, Marty Backe said:

Take our offer next time - hopefully there won't be a next time 

I have decided to incorporate jogging into my exercise at least once a month so I dont lose this conditioning. The starting and stopping probably didnt help actually. Also not walking it down at the end of the run let my musles tense up as well.

  I wanted to do it, and really kind of had fun while doing it. Was amazed at the conditioning that EUC riding gives aerobically. Really never ran out of breath, and if I had had more than a packet of Hostess donettes for breakfast I may have run with more energy.

I forgot about the break in time for the legs each spring during track season. And even though I try to convince myself of this on a daily basis - I guess I'm not a kid anymore. ? I still think that emoji is funny tho!

[Rehab1]

Dear members, have you considered that this whole discussion with Caelus is a ruse. Is there a prize for the most negative reps? 

[Mono]

On 07/09/2017 at 1:58 AM, caelus said:

He is also talking about loosing torque, not a cut off.

Unless you are going on a descend, it should be impossible to reach the cut-off speed. You can only get there by lift test, i.e., without load.

True. Though Gotways have the reputation to cut-off, I am not sure whether it's an urban myth. For my MCM2s I can only report the approaching-zero-torque-reserve experience once or twice at "high" speed within 3000km and I could save it each time without falling. So that's very much in line with Austin. Like @steve454 I also can't remember to have seen a tumble which must have been a cut-off, because it was fully inconsistent with reaching the zero torque reserve limit. EDIT: that doesn't mean the wheel has actually zero torque at this speed, rather that all available torque is needed to keep up the speed, so zero reserve torque. Pretty much exactly what Austin says in the vid.

7 hours ago, caelus said:

What kind of habit is that to give negative rep on each post??

I think it's called inertia in physics. You lost quite some credibility in the helmet discussion, and I think rightly so, so now it's an uphill battle to get some of it back.

Edited September 8, 2017 by Mono