Flightrider -- first Face Plant; hope my LAST

[Flightrider]

Thank GOD I was wearing my helmet.    I started off to go on my usual ride tonight from my place.   Paved street;  I was accelerating probably pretty hard and about 12 mph headed to my usual 19, when I suddenly and without warning found myself laying face planted, in the street.     I'm an old guy, so I have to tell you, I do NOT want that to EVER happen again!    Knocked the wind out me; scraped up both elbows, my nose, hands and knees.    I think if I hadn't been wearing that Bell helmet that I JUST started wearing about a week ago, I'd be dead.    I have never fallen that hard on my face in my life.    My neighbor, who happens to be a doctor was just coming in and ran over.    I laid in the street for about 5 minutes, then got my breath and got up.   He brought me home and checked me over pretty good.   Amazingly, no broken bones;  just bruises....

All I could think about is how fast I've been riding this thing the last few evenings, how cool it is and how many times I was NOT wearing my helmet previously.    So for all of you from me... IF you're going to go fast, wear a dang helmet.   I'll telling you, my Bell has a nice dent in the front, right where my skull would have been "dented" by the hard pavement.

I'll get back on it... But can someone explain what happens?    I'm assuming I was pulling too much current on a very hard accel and the controller on my IPS 122 decided Not Tonight!

I'm a firm believer from getting back on whatever horse I'm riding, but I also like to know her a little better, maybe even give her a carrot before I do...

Any thoughts?

 

 

 

[playdad]

Was the battery well charged? (over 70%) If you're accelerating at your normal pace, then it would seem unusual (since I doubt its cold now) unless you had just gone over a slope/bump etc that might have affected its recent power drain. But you used the words "pretty hard" so anything's possible. Best to be careful doing that especially if the EUC is about a year old or more. I generally try to control my acceleration... the smaller the battery (mine's 240wh IPS ZERO) the more you have to control it.

 

I agree about helmet... I always wear mine even if I don't plan to push it hard. We only have one head and I don't plan to risk it on Chinese electronics. :-D

[Egbert]

good to hear you are ok so far . and thank you very much, for your conclusion.
as said many times before and many threads here in this forum, i think it can't be told often enough - the EUC, yours, mine, every EUC might fail any time, everywhere.
in my oppinion it doesn't matter, if you are driving fast, or if you are driving low: an error may occur at every second. 

so, keep this in mind and drive carefully, be prepared to step of and wear some protection....

(just my oppinion, but the more fun - the more risk...)

[fearedbliss]

15 hours ago, Flightrider said:

Thank GOD I was wearing my helmet.    I started off to go on my usual ride tonight from my place.   Paved street;  I was accelerating probably pretty hard and about 12 mph headed to my usual 19, when I suddenly and without warning found myself laying face planted, in the street.     I'm an old guy, so I have to tell you, I do NOT want that to EVER happen again!    Knocked the wind out me; scraped up both elbows, my nose, hands and knees.    I think if I hadn't been wearing that Bell helmet that I JUST started wearing about a week ago, I'd be dead.    I have never fallen that hard on my face in my life.    My neighbor, who happens to be a doctor was just coming in and ran over.    I laid in the street for about 5 minutes, then got my breath and got up.   He brought me home and checked me over pretty good.   Amazingly, no broken bones;  just bruises....

All I could think about is how fast I've been riding this thing the last few evenings, how cool it is and how many times I was NOT wearing my helmet previously.    So for all of you from me... IF you're going to go fast, wear a dang helmet.   I'll telling you, my Bell has a nice dent in the front, right where my skull would have been "dented" by the hard pavement.

I'll get back on it... But can someone explain what happens?    I'm assuming I was pulling too much current on a very hard accel and the controller on my IPS 122 decided Not Tonight!

I'm a firm believer from getting back on whatever horse I'm riding, but I also like to know her a little better, maybe even give her a carrot before I do...

Any thoughts?

 

 

 

Alright, you've convinced me to start wearing my helmet again. I consider myself a veteran rider now that I have a year experience and I'm pretty good and ride even in heavy traffic with lots of people, but yea... I need to start wearing my helmet again. @logos122 story scared the crap out of me since he actually did hit his head and became unconscious! I'll just wear the helmet and my gloves. Any other scratches in elbows and knees are just a nuisance. I don't want my hands to get scratched (or wrist broken), and definitely not my skull.

[The Fat Unicyclist]

5 minutes ago, fearedbliss said:

I'll just wear the helmet and my gloves. Any other scratches in elbows and knees are just a nuisance. I don't want my hands to get scratched (or wrist broken), and definitely not my skull.

Prioritised safety...

[Planetpapi]

@Flightrider Glad to know that nothing happened to you! It's very rare, coming out from a face plant without any injuries. I wear the helmet and some safety gear EVERY ride. I think you should give a thank you kiss to your helmet. Can you describe your fall in more details so other members can figure out more accurately? Like the battery level, how far you already ridden before fall, inclines, temperature, any thing like that.

[Jurgen]

Good to hear you are ok. Some are not that lucky (broken legs, wrists, brain injury,...)

I've had 1xFP, 1x triple barrel roll forward, 1x a backward fall/ all with full protective gear ( I'm 50), the only injury I got was a sprain in my (already bad) shoulder and a bruise on my back, that's all.

We've already had extensive discussions on the subject, with a wide variety of views on the following  thread:

I can only repeate the same things:  get a wheel from a reputed brand and get the maximum capacity battery you can buy, and wear full protective gear because you cannot predict when the EUC will die on you... (If you really believe you have to prioritize, I would do it as follows: helmet>wrist>elbow>knees>ankles)

May the Big Rider watch over you on your next ride buddy.

[Pagsy]

ok I'll go buy a nice helmet ...

I always wear wrist gears and always ride at a speed where I know I can run off.

I did hit my head (my mouth) on a face plant when I was a beginner tho.

[Planetpapi]

I think we should maintain a thread( like our video thread)  dedicated to face plant images, like broken bones, blood and gory so new users can make better decisions when they take out their wheels for a spin.

[Pagsy]

Also, I'd like to take this opportunity to remind people that it is usually not recommended to lean forward to accelerate. if you take a look at the manual provided with your device, it is clearly said to NOT lean.

I always tell beginners to move their hips forward but NOT lean. that reduces a LOT the risk of faceplant.

 

[Jurgen]

15 hours ago, Flightrider said:

Thank GOD I was wearing my helmet.    I started off to go on my usual ride tonight from my place.   Paved street;  I was accelerating probably pretty hard and about 12 mph headed to my usual 19, when I suddenly and without warning found myself laying face planted, in the street.     I'm an old guy, so I have to tell you, I do NOT want that to EVER happen again!    Knocked the wind out me; scraped up both elbows, my nose, hands and knees.    I think if I hadn't been wearing that Bell helmet that I JUST started wearing about a week ago, I'd be dead.    I have never fallen that hard on my face in my life.    My neighbor, who happens to be a doctor was just coming in and ran over.    I laid in the street for about 5 minutes, then got my breath and got up.   He brought me home and checked me over pretty good.   Amazingly, no broken bones;  just bruises....

All I could think about is how fast I've been riding this thing the last few evenings, how cool it is and how many times I was NOT wearing my helmet previously.    So for all of you from me... IF you're going to go fast, wear a dang helmet.   I'll telling you, my Bell has a nice dent in the front, right where my skull would have been "dented" by the hard pavement.

I'll get back on it... But can someone explain what happens?    I'm assuming I was pulling too much current on a very hard accel and the controller on my IPS 122 decided Not Tonight!

I'm a firm believer from getting back on whatever horse I'm riding, but I also like to know her a little better, maybe even give her a carrot before I do...

Any thoughts?

 

 

 

It can be anything, from pulling too much current (by overleaning, riding on loose underground) to a malfunction.

You have a 260Wh version with Chinese batt (the 340W versions has Sony or Panasonic), if the wheel feels weak and has abnormal low range, a damaged cell could be the problem. Be carefull when getting back on the wheel, go slow and easy.

Do you still remember if the wheel made a grinding noise or a grinding feel, wsas beeping, felt unstable just before the FP, .... did you hit something, ran in a pit, were you going downhill,.... anything?

ps: replace the dented helmet it's no good any more

 

[Jeffrey Scott Will]

Glad to hear you were protected and came out ok!

 

I think the answer lays in his original statement: accelerating hard on his way to his *usual* 19mph(30kph) - so he's used to cruising at max speed. When you cut it that close, you're riding with less torque to cope with any spikes from a slight lean or foot adjustment, holes/bumps in the road... Etc. Though it sounds like maybe he wasn't going that fast yet. 

[Flightrider]

First off, thanks to everyone for your thoughts and comments. 

I'm sore as hell today, but other than feeling an ouch every time I move anything from the waste up, I'm ok.     (I'm 67 and I suspect the oldest rider on here, btw).

In response to questions regarding more detail:

1.  I had just unplugged the EUC from the charger maybe 5 minutes before.   It was fully charged.    DO THESE BATTERIES REQUIRE A WARM UP PERIOD maybe?    This is an IPS 122 that I bought this past January.    Total mileage about 120 klm

2.  I live in a pristine little gated community of nice asphalt paved streets; here in West Palm Beach, FL.    I was probably 200 feet from my house accelerating away.    Maybe 75 F outside. 

3. There was absolutely NO warning, tilt back, beeping...   NOTHING except sudden stoppage.    No unusual sounds prior.    Again, I WAS leaning pretty far forward to maximize acceleration, similarly to the dozens of times I've accelerated away before.   

4.  No leaning laterally that I remember, no scrubbing of a pedal; just straight away... 

5.  I walked back out and down the street late last night with a flashlight.   There was no debris except the plastic from my LED light mount that got torn off.   Nothing I could see that I might have it.

The only thing I can imagine is I overstepped the current limits of the controller and she shut down.    I'd love to more about the internal workings of these jewels.   Too bad it doesn't just go to a "free wheel" condition in such instances.   I'd still fall but maybe no so hard as if the wheel actually braked which the way it felt.   I don't really know though; it happened so fast.

ENCHORE:

So despite my wife's displeasure, I did get back on the EUC late last night.   I'm an avid pilot, as well as an engineer at heart, intensely interested in learning about anything --- especially something that has surprised me so.    I don't think of myself as a dare devil, but I do like speed I'll admit.    After laying around for a couple of hours, unable to just let this go,   I got up about mid-night, re-attached my little LED strobe that gotten ripped off in the fall, and checked the EUC out as best I could.    She seemed to run normal as ever.    Balance and response seemed exactly as before.   So...   I SLOWLY got on her and rode around our neighborhood for about 15 minutes...      listening and cautiously observing and going slowly the whole way.    Everything seemed perfectly normal...     So I returned home, put her back on charge, made my self a stiff drink and headed back to bed.   I kissed the wife good night and said all is well.   I'm fortunate;  I learned something today.     Not everyone is so lucky.    She understood. 

Dave     

 

[jer]

Unfortunately the chargers  that come with these things are pretty crap.

They give no indication of the health of the battery eg internal resistance.

Also  as  balancing takes place internally we have no idea what the voltage is for each cell.

Maybe the battery is old spent all it's life fully charged and the internal resistance is getting higher.

Leading to the bms cutting out when put under a but of load.

Also the bms is probably not  designed for  electric unicycles and have protection for its own good rather than the fleshy parts.

(Many threads and modifications on this subject..)

 

Rider weight is obviously a key issue, we should all weigh less than 40 kg!

 

Jer

[John Eucist]

On 5/17/2016 at 10:52 AM, Flightrider said:

Thank GOD I was wearing my helmet.    I started off to go on my usual ride tonight from my place.   Paved street;  I was accelerating probably pretty hard and about 12 mph headed to my usual 19, when I suddenly and without warning found myself laying face planted, in the street.

Accelerating "hard" from 20 km/h to 30 km/h (12-19 mph) is always going to be dangerous as it would be taking it beyond the limits of most eucs on the market.  Is your IPS rated to allow such speeds?  What is your weight?  The heavier you are the "smoother" you need to be with your leans to minimize the sudden current draw that could cause the motor to cut.

[who_the]

Very glad you are OK and recovering. Please, please, everybody, wear appropriate protection when riding. And Dave, I hope you are replacing your helmet, as you probably know most recommend being replaced after taking a serious hit.

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

I know these EUCs make you feel like you're 14 again, but ya gotta remember you won't heal up as fast nor be able to take the tumbles like a 14 year old would!  My gosh 67 and riding an electric unicycle... just scares me thinking about it, but I bet I'd be doing the same thing once I get there.  Having fun can't be limited to just the younger age groups that's for sure.  Still, the risk of serious injuries like a broken hip might make me want to stick to the lower speed range for the most part.  The laws of physics don't discriminate between young and old...

[SlowMo]

3 hours ago, Flightrider said:

3. There was absolutely NO warning, tilt back, beeping...   NOTHING except sudden stoppage.    No unusual sounds prior.    Again, I WAS leaning pretty far forward to maximize acceleration, similarly to the dozens of times I've accelerated away before.

This is a classic case of overleaning. Based on your reports, you need a beefier motor and bigger batteries. 

[The Fat Unicyclist]

9 minutes ago, SlowMo said:

This is a classic case of overleaning. Based on your reports, you need a beefier motor and bigger batteries. 

Why is it that most e-unicyclists lean? 

As a heavier rider, I am quite conscious of where my centre of gravity is relative to my wheel. And my preference is to push forward from the hip and down with my toes (with knees slightly bent).

I haven't had a FP yet (touch wood). But logic tells me that I am "less at odds with gravity" should I have a power failure. Hopefully I am right...

[Chuts]

Thinking about upgrading to a faster more powerful EU soon.  Already bought some elbow / forearm guards and knee / shin guards.  I also bought myself a motorcycle helmet which might be a bit of an overkill but I'd rather they get scraped up than my own flesh.  Was even considering buying some ice hockey padding for torso and shoulders.  Live in Hong Kong which is very warm so probably not such a good idea. 

Even if I don't crash I'll be ready for when the zombies come.

[Jason McNeil]

@Flightrider, we're located just down the road from you in South Beach. If you're around the area & want to try out some other Wheels, drop me a line, I've got about seven in the office right now

The main weakness of the 122 & to a lesser extent the 121 (because they have better batteries), is the acceleration. IPS engineered this model for torque, if you push past the acceleration envelope the motor will cut-out, & as you discovered, it's not all that difficult to do. Before discovering King Song, the 121 was my mainstay for getting around, I had to constantly be vigilant when getting up to cruising speed.  

[Shoe73]

13 hours ago, The Fat Unicyclist said:

Why is it that most e-unicyclists lean? 

When accelerating or decelerating rapidly you have to lean. If you keep your center of gravity above the wheel and stand on your toes to accelerate rapidly you will fall backwards as the wheels pulls forward out from under you. The only option besides leaning is to accelerate very gradually (leaning only a very little amount). 

[The Fat Unicyclist]

2 hours ago, Shoe73 said:

When accelerating or decelerating rapidly you have to lean. If you keep your center of gravity above the wheel and stand on your toes to accelerate rapidly you will fall backwards as the wheels pulls forward out from under you. The only option besides leaning is to accelerate very gradually (leaning only a very little amount). 

I understand completely.

And being a fat guy on an underpowered (400W) wheel I have definitely experienced the situation where the wheel can't maintain relativity to my centre of gravity. But that is where I have managed to step off (rather than FP).

Whether that was because of my stance or my lack of acceleration, either way it still resulted with me remaining upright. 

[MaxLinux]

On ‎5‎/‎18‎/‎2016 at 2:25 PM, Jason McNeil said:

The main weakness of the 122 & to a lesser extent the 121 (because they have better batteries), is the acceleration. IPS engineered this model for torque

I love the torque in the IPS121. I know many people seek speed and don't have fun riding slow, but I much prefer torque rather than speed. I love the power reserve when I accidentally drop into a pothole or encounter a steep hill. I have not yet found a hill that IPS121 cannot climb (I'm sure one exists somewhere). Sometimes it goes up the hill so slow that I almost can't stay upright, but it reaches the top!