Begode ET MAX Announcement

[InfiniteWheelie]

@YCC I'd guess that any difference would be extremely minimal. Higher voltage doesn't automatically mean more efficient. It's about the current compared to the wire size. So yes if you had the exact same power and wire size, then going to high voltage would drop the current and gain some efficiency. I don't know what evidence there is to suggest that's the case though. I bet they'd simply use thinner wires to directly compensate for the lower current.

[Hungary]

16 hours ago, WheelGoodTime said:

Given the context, unless they state otherwise, I interpret that to be referencing the mosfets on the controller to be in an 8P configuration - not the battery cells.

Yeah.

The Commander GT Pro: 4 packs with 40 cells each = 168 V

The Veteran Patton: 2 packs with 2P of 36 cells each = 151V (eqv 4P of Commander GT Pro).

So, the 4P is most likely design. For 50S cells is ok (looks like Master with molicel cells)

[v8nice]

18 hours ago, Cobaltsaber said:

besides charging is also why I don't understand why we're moving to a higher voltage/series count already. I feel we still didn't get all we could have out of a 134v system. Alot of guys aren't getting these new wheels for the speed as they haven't even topped out their 134v wheels yet. But I guess the voltage arms race continues

the tension increases faster than before because of the type of current wheel design. for 134v you need 32 batteries per battery (32s1p) or on the master it is 67v x 4 in 16s2p battery. Since we are now using the highest capacity batteries, we have to play on the number of batteries. By the way from 134v to 168v we only have to add, on a master for example, 8 batteries per battery, thanks to this we increase the wh, the voltage, we also reduce the demand for high amperage. If we wanted to make a larger master in 134v , we should add at least 16 batteries per battery, i.e. minimum 3600wh in 134v, like the ex30, and therefore the control of weight and size is much less simple. If we had remained on the system of 4 batteries in series of the first Master (much less safe), in this case we could have increased each battery with only 8 batteries, as for the 168v. I have the impression that the high voltage motherboards burn less easily than the 84v and 100v before, in part thanks to the fact that the amperage demand is lower. The only downside is in the event that someone is electrocuted...

[Rawnei]

56 minutes ago, v8nice said:

the tension increases faster than before because of the type of current wheel design. for 134v you need 32 batteries per battery (32s1p) or on the master it is 67v x 4 in 16s2p battery. Since we are now using the highest capacity batteries, we have to play on the number of batteries. By the way from 134v to 168v we only have to add, on a master for example, 8 batteries per battery, thanks to this we increase the wh, the voltage, we also reduce the demand for high amperage. If we wanted to make a larger master in 134v , we should add at least 16 batteries per battery, i.e. minimum 3600wh in 134v, like the ex30, and therefore the control of weight and size is much less simple. If we had remained on the system of 4 batteries in series of the first Master (much less safe), in this case we could have increased each battery with only 8 batteries, as for the 168v. I have the impression that the high voltage motherboards burn less easily than the 84v and 100v before, in part thanks to the fact that the amperage demand is lower. The only downside is in the event that someone is electrocuted...

Current is not lower, in fact it's even higher than older models, pushing the total power upwards by a whole lot, that is why this generation wheels have so much torque and speed.

[v8nice]

The voltage is more but current not .

For 3000w at 84v you need :

3000÷74v= 40A

 

For 3000w at 134v:

3000÷118.4v=25A

 

for 3000w at 168v:

3000÷148v=20A 

 

[eucVibes]

Thanks to everyone in this thread for all the great up to date info on this wheel 

 

[Rawnei]

36 minutes ago, v8nice said:

The voltage is more but current not .

For 3000w at 84v you need :

3000÷74v= 40A

 

For 3000w at 134v:

3000÷118.4v=25A

 

for 3000w at 168v:

3000÷148v=20A 

 

It doesn't work like that, modern controllers allow us to pull a lot more current so we can do more demanding things, that is why an 84v wheel can't go up a 45 degree slope but a Lynx can do it with ease, one of many examples.

[v8nice]

a 168v wheel can give 6000w from 100% to 0% battery with only the Samsung 50E batteries. You can see in my example that we will use less amperage current on these wheels than on the 84 and 100v. We can use  more with 168v but it will be less frequent than with "low voltage" wheels.

[RagingGrandpa]

We need to be more specific about the ride scenario, to have a meaningful discussion about efficiency.

For the same rider cruising on a flat surface at 30mph, Begod ET 168V will consume a similar amount of energy as Gotway Monster 84V.
Because the load on the system is the same (rolling resistance, aero drag, etc). 
Voltage difference is not relevant for middle-speed cruising. 
 

Edited January 4 by RagingGrandpa

[Rawnei]

15 minutes ago, v8nice said:

a 168v wheel can give 6000w from 100% to 0% battery with only the Samsung 50E batteries. You can see in my example that we will use less amperage current on these wheels than on the 84 and 100v. We can use  more with 168v but it will be less frequent than with "low voltage" wheels.

Your example doesn't say much, the point is that modern wheels allows us to go faster and do more demanding things i.e. we use more power than we did before, that is the reason to make beefier electronics in the first place because there is demand for more power by the riders, they don't do all this R&D just so that less current will be used and it would be pointless if we had 168v wheels just to ride them the same way as 84v wheels which is what your example is saying.

[techyiam]

50 minutes ago, v8nice said:

a 168v wheel can give 6000w from 100% to 0% battery with only the Samsung 50E batteries. You can see in my example that we will use less amperage current on these wheels than on the 84 and 100v. We can use  more with 168v but it will be less frequent than with "low voltage" wheels.

Take the 84V system, increase the voltage until you reach 100% PWM. Now the full battery voltage is sent to the motor, and the maximum free-spin speed is reached.

Now keep everything the same, except the maximum battery voltage is increased to 168V, and the controller is beefed up to handle the increased voltage.

Up to 84 V, both system is the same. It is only when you go beyond 84V does the 168V system come into play.

This is basically the idea behind the design of strong low torque and high top speed wheels.

[noonewantstobepeterchris]

Are you taking into account the losses of the mosfets? The losses are related to their switching, which is going to be different for higher voltage battery. Is it a lot? A little?

[techyiam]

It seems to me that the ET Max is a second generation Master based on the Extreme. However, it is further refined with a blackened stylized treatment, with the addition of a 168 V motor drive system and a 20" wheel. I guess that is why some people were saying this is the Extreme Pro, but with a 20" wheel.

It is hard to tell too much from the low resolution CGI's and videos shot in the dark. After taking a second look, it is hard to say how much has changed with the suspension design. We will need to see a teardown.

I hope that they have managed to made the wheel more refined and more premium to better compete with the Leaper Kim offerings.

ewheels is saying ETA is about end of February. That is about 7 weeks away.

So it doesn't look like there will be international testing being done.

 

 

[Rawnei]

I doubt the sliding mechanism has changed, why would they mention cybertruck of the blue but no mention of improved sliding mechanism if that was the case, I believe it will be the same bushing on pipes construction like the rest of their wheels, this is the standard they seem to have settled for.

The new improved shock seems mostly a marketing spin on the fixes they made on the extreme shock to get that working without beaking.

Edited January 4 by Rawnei

[techyiam]

31 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

I doubt the sliding mechanism has changed, why would they mention cybertruck of the blue but no mention of improved sliding mechanism if that was the case, I believe it will be the same bushing on pipes construction like the rest of their wheels, this is the standard they seem to have settled for.

The new improved shock seems mostly a marketing spin on the fixes they made on the extreme shock to get that working without beaking.

+1.

My optimism has started to waned after taking a closer look at some of the CGI's and video screen captures.

This could be just a continuation of Begode's normal hype on new wheel releases.

That non-standard shock is a dead give away too.

[Cerbera]

Is that STILL the same shitty kickstand we have on the Masters, where the angle of the pads isn't even correct for it to sit square on the ground ?!

[Hungary]

Please, explain a little about of the location of the battery boxes. Are they too low? Here are 2 pics. On the Extreme Bull Commander GT Pro the lower edge of the boxes is at the level of the pedals. ET MAX wheel has battery boxes located much lower. Is this badly for driving? Especially considering the greater suspension range of ET MAX.

 

 

[v8nice]

20 minutes ago, Hungary said:

Veuillez expliquer un peu l'emplacement des boîtiers de batteries. Sont-ils trop bas ? Voici 2 photos. Sur l'Extreme Bull Commander GT Pro le bord inférieur des caissons se trouve au niveau des pédales. La roue ET MAX a des boîtiers de batterie situés beaucoup plus bas. Est-ce mauvais pour la conduite ? Surtout compte tenu de la plus grande plage de suspension de l’ET MAX.

 

 

On off road is not good

[jimjam.nyc]

4 hours ago, Hungary said:

Please, explain a little about of the location of the battery boxes. Are they too low? Here are 2 pics. On the Extreme Bull Commander GT Pro the lower edge of the boxes is at the level of the pedals. ET MAX wheel has battery boxes located much lower. Is this badly for driving? Especially considering the greater suspension range of ET MAX.

 

 

I guess the question will be is the battery box bottom really lower than normal. Or do the renders just show the pics with the pedals in the highest position which may give the illusion of the bottom of the battery boxes being extra low. 

I am wondering if this is even an issue, or if it just looks weird due to the new way the pedals are hung, and more room to actually move the pedals higher/lower. 

 

[Ronin Ryder]

4 hours ago, v8nice said:

On off road is not good

Euc is not just all about offroad though. The EX30 has low battery and has been a successful EUC. The ET Max will be perfectly fine. 

Edited January 5 by Ronin Ryder

[RagingGrandpa]

45 minutes ago, Ronin Ryder said:

The ET Max will be perfectly fine [with battery packs sticking out beneath the pedals]

Not perfectly fine for the stair/park/MTB riders!

Maybe they should just buy Lynx instead? 
 

Edited January 5 by RagingGrandpa

[noonewantstobepeterchris]

The range and lower battery boxes are why I went with the EX30 over the *V13. I don’t know if I would choose this over the Lynx if I had the choice, but for my use case in Houston the lower boxes are a plus.

Edited January 5 by noonewantstobepeterchris

[Jason McNeil]

Quick update on the ET Max: the single prototype is currently in Hong Kong, heading back to the BG location early next week. Some of the basic questions should be answered then, like the weight/dimensions, etc.  Working on coordinating a site visit to get some inside scoop early next week.

[The Brahan Seer]

Better short with a bit more close up detail (just)..

Edited January 6 by The Brahan Seer

[Rawnei]

1 hour ago, noonewantstobepeterchris said:

The range and lower battery boxes are why I went with the EX30 over the *V13. I don’t know if I would choose this over the Lynx if I had the choice, but for my use case in Houston the lower boxes are a plus.

It's possible to design the pedals lower than the battery boxes, as you can see on this wheel it's in reverse: pedals are higher than the boxes.

The problem starts when the battery extrudes a good way over the tire so when tire compresses you risk hitting batteries into obstacles.