Begode ET MAX Announcement

[Jason McNeil]

9 minutes ago, Ronin Ryder said:

would request if we could see better real life pictures of the wheel, not 3d renders or pics hindered by watermarks.

Just came in, still renders, views from other perspectives.

[WheelGoodTime]

22 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said:

What do we want in terms of prerelease questions for this machine, preparing a questionaire list for Begode: 
- Net weight
- Dimensions
- Pedal height range? 
- Photos of the CNC body structure, what material is used? 
- Graph shock & rebound performance 
- Demonstration of the 'effective' range of suspension travel 
- Will there be the 900lb spring option on the shock, will this be offered as standard? 
- Independent feeds into the board? 
- Thermal properties of the controller, expected W/cm under different loads
- How has the Begode stress tested this new 10th generation controller architecture?
- Photos of the new permanent magnets on the rotor
- Gauge of phase wiring to the motor
- Dyno data of the motor: torque/rpm & efficiency at different RPM
- Motor bearings type, ABEC class?, seals applied to the bearings?
- Waterproofing measures of the controller bay, motor, wire inputs, IP X6 rating/testing? 
- Charge-port is NOT live
- What is the gauge of wiring from charge-port to pack? 
- Has BG tested 20A charging with a thermal camera? 
- How are the battery packs sealed? 
- Packs of unequal voltage, is there a cross-feed & current regulation?
- Over-voltage protection handling?  
- What are the capabilities/specifications of the BMS? 
- Can the BMS firmware be updated from the App? 
- Largest compatible tire? Does the rim support tubeless? Knobby option? What model tire are they proposing as stock?
- Board/pack fault condition handling/alerting. Map out possible fault conditions, which ones are surviable?
- What 'lessons learned' can be adopted from other Begode releases to incorporate into this release?      

All good and important questions. I'd also like to know:

-Does this EUC have the same hall sensor-ignoring programming that the GT Pro is expected to have?

- What is the battery configuration in parallel on this EUC?

- Who would be conducting the IPX6 (or so) testing and verification, and which specific parts (motor, controller, etc) are going to be IP certified, if any?

[Hungary]

42 minutes ago, WheelGoodTime said:

- What is the battery configuration in parallel on this EUC?

Controller: 8 Parallel 48 Mosfet 1200A

[WheelGoodTime]

2 minutes ago, Hungary said:

Controller: 8 Parallel 48 Mosfet 1200A

Given the context, unless they state otherwise, I interpret that to be referencing the mosfets on the controller to be in an 8P configuration - not the battery cells.

[The Brahan Seer]

Very short in the flesh...

 

[CrabChampion]

2 hours ago, WheelGoodTime said:

- What is the battery configuration in parallel on this EUC?

Should be a 40s4p to achieve 3000wh at 168v

[techyiam]

7 minutes ago, Cobaltsaber said:

Should be a 40s4p to achieve 3000wh at 168v

+1

40 cells x 4.2 V = 168 V

40 cells x 3.7 V (nominal voltage) x 5 Ah x 4P = 2960 Wh.

[WheelGoodTime]

17 minutes ago, techyiam said:

+1

40 cells x 4.2 V = 168 V

40 cells x 3.7 V (nominal voltage) x 5 Ah x 4P = 2960 Wh.

Ugh, 4P? That's exactly what I suspected and was afraid of. With this much power flowing through this wheel, the 50GB version should have never even been offered as a 4P EUC.

[techyiam]

14 minutes ago, WheelGoodTime said:

Ugh, 4P? That's exactly what I suspected and was afraid of. With this much power flowing through this wheel, the 50GB version should have never even been offered as a 4P EUC.

Yup, those speed demons or aggressive riders need to be diligent when they have an urge to full send.

[CrabChampion]

30 minutes ago, WheelGoodTime said:

Ugh, 4P? That's exactly what I suspected and was afraid of. With this much power flowing through this wheel, the 50GB version should have never even been offered as a 4P EUC.

besides charging is also why I don't understand why we're moving to a higher voltage/series count already. I feel we still didn't get all we could have out of a 134v system. Alot of guys aren't getting these new wheels for the speed as they haven't even topped out their 134v wheels yet. But I guess the voltage arms race continues

[techyiam]

1 minute ago, Cobaltsaber said:

Alot of guys aren't getting these new wheels for the speed as they haven't even topped out their 134v wheels yet. But I guess the voltage arms race continues

I suspect you are right.

[eezo]

13 minutes ago, Cobaltsaber said:

Alot of guys aren't getting these new wheels for the speed as they haven't even topped out their 134v wheels yet.

Higher top-end = greater safety margin at one's preferred riding speed. That being said, chasing voltage isn't the only way to accomplish that, but it's the way the manufacturers are going.

Personally, I like the ride stability improvement from a larger/wider tire. This is the first release that has me considering moving on from my Commander Pro. I'm not chasing top-end speed, but where I live, even just recreational riding and seeing the sights requires the capability of a 40mph cruising speed due to the road infrastructure. I don't go that fast all the time but there are times where I need to. This kind of wheel with a low center of gravity, large+wide tire, and speed headroom is a great fit for my riding situation, and I imagine there are others like me.

Edited January 3 by eezo

[InfiniteWheelie]

48 minutes ago, Cobaltsaber said:

besides charging is also why I don't understand why we're moving to a higher voltage/series count already

Voltage has nothing to do with charging speed for electric wheels. This isn’t an electric car where the DC fast chargers can’t physically pump more amps through the cable, so the cars/chargers moved to a higher voltage.

The hypothetical limit to charging speed for all wheels is the battery chemistry, which doesn’t change depending on the pack size or voltage. That’s usually no faster than a one hour charge.

In practice the wall outlet (and the charger) is the real limit. You can only pull 1800w out of a standard North American outlet, which is a 2 hour charge for a 3600wh pack.

Edited January 3 by InfiniteWheelie

[Robse]

4 hours ago, Jason McNeil said:

Just came in, still renders, views from other perspectives.

That wheel looks like someone for once has been allowed to think things through

[Funky]

33 minutes ago, Robse said:

That wheel looks like someone for once has been allowed to think things through

I would gladly pay 2000$. IF it was ~45lbs heavy, had 1500W(or more) motor and ~1000Wh battery.

 

On topic.. Don't judge a book by its cover. It may look good, but the engineer who built it's "insides" could have been moron and ducked it up badly.   

Edited January 3 by Funky

[CrabChampion]

50 minutes ago, InfiniteWheelie said:

In practice the wall outlet (and the charger) is the real limit. You can only pull 1800w out of a standard North American outlet, which is a 2 hour charge for a 3600wh pack.

Which is exactly what im trying to get at. A 168v wheel that is capable of charging 20a is a whopping 3360w of power. Who is riding and charging these wheels? Most longer grouprides here now need to utilize EV charging stations to be able to pull that kind of wattage to charge our wheels. We're gonna have some idiot running around blowing a bunch of standard 110v wall outlets (it happened a bunch from the jump from 84-100v wheels here)

[Robse]

1 minute ago, Cobaltsaber said:

Which is exactly what im trying to get at. A 168v wheel that is capable of charging 20a is a whopping 3360w of power. Who is riding and charging these wheels? Most longer grouprides here now need to utilize EV charging stations to be able to pull that kind of wattage to charge our wheels. We're gonna have some idiot running around blowing a bunch of standard 110v wall outlets (it happened a bunch from the jump from 84-100v wheels here)

I don't see a problem. Just move to a country where there is some decent juice in the sockets (DK: 220V / 16A )

[CrabChampion]

Just now, Robse said:

I don't see a problem. Just move to a country where there is some decent juice in the sockets (DK: 220V / 16A )

Haha yea that would be quite ideal. I wish

[InfiniteWheelie]

@Cobaltsaber You’re mixing up input and output numbers. The power of the charger comes from the amount of volts and amps it’s drawing from the wall. It then takes that same amount of power (minus a small efficiency loss) and converts it to the voltage the wheel uses.

For example, from the wall a charger pulls 120v x 15 amps = 1800w. You have a 60v battery so the charger cuts the voltage in half and doubles the amps which feeds the battery 60v and 30amps.

This isn’t your fault because when the wheel manufactures say it’s a 168v 20a charger, they’re also mixing input and output numbers. 168v is output while 20 is input. It’s actually 120v x 20a =  2400w (NOT 168 x 20 = 3,360).

Edited January 3 by InfiniteWheelie

[null]

1 hour ago, InfiniteWheelie said:

when the wheel manufactures say it’s a 168v 20a charger, they’re also mixing input and output numbers.

No, charger ratings are the output of the charger, and EUC charge ratings are the input of the EUC. There is no mixing of input and output. A 100V/10A charger will deliver just that, while pulling 1000W (+/-loss) from the wall, in whatever V/A combination the country uses. A 100V EUC rated for 10A charging will accept that as charging speed.

The ETMAX should take up to 3360W input, a bit over 1c for the batteries.

Edited January 3 by null

[InfiniteWheelie]

@Cobaltsaber @null I guess I was wrong. I’ve just usually seen people referring to PEV chargers by their amps, which I think are usually input amps when you check the sticker. I wrongly assumed that was the case here.

When wheel manufacturers talk about the commonly included chargers being 5 or 10 amps (like the original Sherman or whatever) are they also quoting the output amps? Perhaps I’m mistaken about this in general.

Edited January 4 by InfiniteWheelie

[null]

40 minutes ago, InfiniteWheelie said:

When wheel manufacturers talk about the commonly included chargers being 5 or 10 amps (like the original Sherman or whatever) are they also quoting the output amps? Perhaps I’m mistaken about this in general.

Yes they are always quoting their output amps, my "5A" stock Sherman charger (same as your Abrams AFAIK) says: input: 220Vac 2A, output: 100,8V/5A. Good for us that they quote the output, as that's (generally) the side that interests us.

(BTW that Leaperkim charger is a bit cheaty, it's actually just 450W*, hence 4,5A for 100V)

*The charger model name often reflects the wattage, as both input and output can vary. I dont know if it includes the transformer loss of not.. (ie is it input or output, if anybody knows I'm interested. To follow the logic of quoting output it should do that, but who knows)

Edited January 4 by null

[RagingGrandpa]

To make matters worse: non-unity power factor makes your chargers trip AC circuit breakers earlier than you'd think...

Ideally, this 2.1Arms @ 121Vrms AC would result in 254W output. 
But in reality, the AC current is not in-phase with the voltage, and so the EUC gets only 147W. 
The AC circuit breaker sees the full 2.1A, regardless of phase offset. 

With this typical ~60% power factor, a charger delivering 900W of real DC power to the EUC will actually require 12 amps from the AC circuit.  
(You only pay the power company for the 900W of real power, thankfully... but tripping the circuit breaker is a nuisance.) 

In my experience, you can recharge a Sherman at 12A from one 20A-protected 120VAC circuit.
14ADC will trip it within a few minutes.
 

Edited January 4 by RagingGrandpa

[null]

I'm glad I don't have to think about that with 220V, charger current input is always lower than output (for yet a while at least).

Anyhow, isn't the peak wattage (and thus Amps) pull from the wall socket only at the end of CC and entering CV?
Before that the charger outputs full current but lower voltage, and inversely after that peak.

It should in theory be possible (if wiring allowed it) to use the wattage capacity of the charger to deliver higher current proportionally to the lower voltage during CC (which then wouldn't be CC)
 

edit, actually, to get back on topic: the ETMAX: the pointy top corners don't look like they would take a fall very well. If I where to design a EUC I would make it obtuse or with bumpers.

Edited January 4 by null

[YCC]

In respect to higher voltage of battery, are we able to expect the more efficiency of the energy using for riding?

Therefore, 168V can save more energy then 134V when we compared same spec of the wheel, which I can tell 168V wheel run same range of 120KM compared with 134V wheel but need battery capacity of 3000wh is less then capacity of 3600wh.