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Begode ET MAX Announcement


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22 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said:

What do we want in terms of prerelease questions for this machine, preparing a questionaire list for Begode: 
- Net weight
- Dimensions
- Pedal height range? 
- Photos of the CNC body structure, what material is used? 
- Graph shock & rebound performance 
- Demonstration of the 'effective' range of suspension travel 
- Will there be the 900lb spring option on the shock, will this be offered as standard? 
- Independent feeds into the board? 
- Thermal properties of the controller, expected W/cm under different loads
- How has the Begode stress tested this new 10th generation controller architecture?
- Photos of the new permanent magnets on the rotor
- Gauge of phase wiring to the motor
- Dyno data of the motor: torque/rpm & efficiency at different RPM
- Motor bearings type, ABEC class?, seals applied to the bearings?
- Waterproofing measures of the controller bay, motor, wire inputs, IP X6 rating/testing? 
- Charge-port is NOT live
- What is the gauge of wiring from charge-port to pack? 
- Has BG tested 20A charging with a thermal camera? 
- How are the battery packs sealed? 
- Packs of unequal voltage, is there a cross-feed & current regulation?
- Over-voltage protection handling?  
- What are the capabilities/specifications of the BMS? 
- Can the BMS firmware be updated from the App? 
- Largest compatible tire? Does the rim support tubeless? Knobby option? What model tire are they proposing as stock?
- Board/pack fault condition handling/alerting. Map out possible fault conditions, which ones are surviable?
- What 'lessons learned' can be adopted from other Begode releases to incorporate into this release?      

All good and important questions. I'd also like to know:

-Does this EUC have the same hall sensor-ignoring programming that the GT Pro is expected to have?

- What is the battery configuration in parallel on this EUC?

- Who would be conducting the IPX6 (or so) testing and verification, and which specific parts (motor, controller, etc) are going to be IP certified, if any?

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2 minutes ago, Hungary said:

Controller: 8 Parallel 48 Mosfet 1200A

Given the context, unless they state otherwise, I interpret that to be referencing the mosfets on the controller to be in an 8P configuration - not the battery cells.

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7 minutes ago, Cobaltsaber said:

Should be a 40s4p to achieve 3000wh at 168v

+1

40 cells x 4.2 V = 168 V

40 cells x 3.7 V (nominal voltage) x 5 Ah x 4P = 2960 Wh.

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17 minutes ago, techyiam said:

+1

40 cells x 4.2 V = 168 V

40 cells x 3.7 V (nominal voltage) x 5 Ah x 4P = 2960 Wh.

Ugh, 4P? That's exactly what I suspected and was afraid of. With this much power flowing through this wheel, the 50GB version should have never even been offered as a 4P EUC.

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14 minutes ago, WheelGoodTime said:

Ugh, 4P? That's exactly what I suspected and was afraid of. With this much power flowing through this wheel, the 50GB version should have never even been offered as a 4P EUC.

Yup, those speed demons or aggressive riders need to be diligent when they have an urge to full send.

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30 minutes ago, WheelGoodTime said:

Ugh, 4P? That's exactly what I suspected and was afraid of. With this much power flowing through this wheel, the 50GB version should have never even been offered as a 4P EUC.

besides charging is also why I don't understand why we're moving to a higher voltage/series count already. I feel we still didn't get all we could have out of a 134v system. Alot of guys aren't getting these new wheels for the speed as they haven't even topped out their 134v wheels yet. But I guess the voltage arms race continues

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1 minute ago, Cobaltsaber said:

Alot of guys aren't getting these new wheels for the speed as they haven't even topped out their 134v wheels yet. But I guess the voltage arms race continues

I suspect you are right.

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13 minutes ago, Cobaltsaber said:

Alot of guys aren't getting these new wheels for the speed as they haven't even topped out their 134v wheels yet.

Higher top-end = greater safety margin at one's preferred riding speed. That being said, chasing voltage isn't the only way to accomplish that, but it's the way the manufacturers are going.

Personally, I like the ride stability improvement from a larger/wider tire. This is the first release that has me considering moving on from my Commander Pro. I'm not chasing top-end speed, but where I live, even just recreational riding and seeing the sights requires the capability of a 40mph cruising speed due to the road infrastructure. I don't go that fast all the time but there are times where I need to. This kind of wheel with a low center of gravity, large+wide tire, and speed headroom is a great fit for my riding situation, and I imagine there are others like me.

Edited by eezo
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48 minutes ago, Cobaltsaber said:

besides charging is also why I don't understand why we're moving to a higher voltage/series count already

Voltage has nothing to do with charging speed for electric wheels. This isn’t an electric car where the DC fast chargers can’t physically pump more amps through the cable, so the cars/chargers moved to a higher voltage.

The hypothetical limit to charging speed for all wheels is the battery chemistry, which doesn’t change depending on the pack size or voltage. That’s usually no faster than a one hour charge.

In practice the wall outlet (and the charger) is the real limit. You can only pull 1800w out of a standard North American outlet, which is a 2 hour charge for a 3600wh pack.

Edited by InfiniteWheelie
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4 hours ago, Jason McNeil said:

Just came in, still renders, views from other perspectives.

EX1.jpg.bf6e432beca74b1423aaac8879f41c4d.jpgEX2.jpg.440ed05ce92e9e22719095fb159dbab8.jpgEX3.jpg.310816ad1ee7569d1ab60ea821f86b35.jpgEX4.jpg.15ba2571afff8a31670a7c7d08e6afca.jpgEX5.jpg.b7128ac7d8b42734cd97e93a1183d363.jpgEX6.jpg.a922aa96dd04ad100c96a76460911731.jpg

That wheel looks like someone for once has been allowed to think things through :)

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33 minutes ago, Robse said:

That wheel looks like someone for once has been allowed to think things through :)

I would gladly pay 2000$. IF it was ~45lbs heavy, had 1500W(or more) motor and ~1000Wh battery.

 

On topic.. Don't judge a book by its cover. It may look good, but the engineer who built it's "insides" could have been moron and ducked it up badly. :D  

Edited by Funky
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50 minutes ago, InfiniteWheelie said:

In practice the wall outlet (and the charger) is the real limit. You can only pull 1800w out of a standard North American outlet, which is a 2 hour charge for a 3600wh pack.

Which is exactly what im trying to get at. A 168v wheel that is capable of charging 20a is a whopping 3360w of power. Who is riding and charging these wheels? Most longer grouprides here now need to utilize EV charging stations to be able to pull that kind of wattage to charge our wheels. We're gonna have some idiot running around blowing a bunch of standard 110v wall outlets (it happened a bunch from the jump from 84-100v wheels here)

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1 minute ago, Cobaltsaber said:

Which is exactly what im trying to get at. A 168v wheel that is capable of charging 20a is a whopping 3360w of power. Who is riding and charging these wheels? Most longer grouprides here now need to utilize EV charging stations to be able to pull that kind of wattage to charge our wheels. We're gonna have some idiot running around blowing a bunch of standard 110v wall outlets (it happened a bunch from the jump from 84-100v wheels here)

I don't see a problem. Just move to a country where there is some decent juice in the sockets :P (DK: 220V / 16A )

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@Cobaltsaber You’re mixing up input and output numbers. The power of the charger comes from the amount of volts and amps it’s drawing from the wall. It then takes that same amount of power (minus a small efficiency loss) and converts it to the voltage the wheel uses.

For example, from the wall a charger pulls 120v x 15 amps = 1800w. You have a 60v battery so the charger cuts the voltage in half and doubles the amps which feeds the battery 60v and 30amps.

This isn’t your fault because when the wheel manufactures say it’s a 168v 20a charger, they’re also mixing input and output numbers. 168v is output while 20 is input. It’s actually 120v x 20a =  2400w (NOT 168 x 20 = 3,360).

Edited by InfiniteWheelie
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@Cobaltsaber @null I guess I was wrong. I’ve just usually seen people referring to PEV chargers by their amps, which I think are usually input amps when you check the sticker. I wrongly assumed that was the case here.

When wheel manufacturers talk about the commonly included chargers being 5 or 10 amps (like the original Sherman or whatever) are they also quoting the output amps? Perhaps I’m mistaken about this in general.

Edited by InfiniteWheelie
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To make matters worse: non-unity power factor makes your chargers trip AC circuit breakers earlier than you'd think...

Ideally, this 2.1Arms @ 121Vrms AC would result in 254W output. 
But in reality, the AC current is not in-phase with the voltage, and so the EUC gets only 147W. 
The AC circuit breaker sees the full 2.1A, regardless of phase offset. 

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With this typical ~60% power factor, a charger delivering 900W of real DC power to the EUC will actually require 12 amps from the AC circuit. :( 
(You only pay the power company for the 900W of real power, thankfully... but tripping the circuit breaker is a nuisance.) 

In my experience, you can recharge a Sherman at 12A from one 20A-protected 120VAC circuit.
14ADC will trip it within a few minutes.
 

Edited by RagingGrandpa
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In respect to higher voltage of battery, are we able to expect the more efficiency of the energy using for riding?

Therefore, 168V can save more energy then 134V when we compared same spec of the wheel, which I can tell 168V wheel run same range of 120KM compared with 134V wheel but need battery capacity of 3000wh is less then capacity of 3600wh.

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@YCC I'd guess that any difference would be extremely minimal. Higher voltage doesn't automatically mean more efficient. It's about the current compared to the wire size. So yes if you had the exact same power and wire size, then going to high voltage would drop the current and gain some efficiency. I don't know what evidence there is to suggest that's the case though. I bet they'd simply use thinner wires to directly compensate for the lower current.

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16 hours ago, WheelGoodTime said:

Given the context, unless they state otherwise, I interpret that to be referencing the mosfets on the controller to be in an 8P configuration - not the battery cells.

Yeah.

The Commander GT Pro: 4 packs with 40 cells each = 168 V

The Veteran Patton: 2 packs with 2P of 36 cells each = 151V (eqv 4P of Commander GT Pro).

So, the 4P is most likely design. For 50S cells is ok (looks like Master with molicel cells)

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18 hours ago, Cobaltsaber said:

besides charging is also why I don't understand why we're moving to a higher voltage/series count already. I feel we still didn't get all we could have out of a 134v system. Alot of guys aren't getting these new wheels for the speed as they haven't even topped out their 134v wheels yet. But I guess the voltage arms race continues

the tension increases faster than before because of the type of current wheel design. for 134v you need 32 batteries per battery (32s1p) or on the master it is 67v x 4 in 16s2p battery. Since we are now using the highest capacity batteries, we have to play on the number of batteries. By the way from 134v to 168v we only have to add, on a master for example, 8 batteries per battery, thanks to this we increase the wh, the voltage, we also reduce the demand for high amperage. If we wanted to make a larger master in 134v , we should add at least 16 batteries per battery, i.e. minimum 3600wh in 134v, like the ex30, and therefore the control of weight and size is much less simple. If we had remained on the system of 4 batteries in series of the first Master (much less safe), in this case we could have increased each battery with only 8 batteries, as for the 168v. I have the impression that the high voltage motherboards burn less easily than the 84v and 100v before, in part thanks to the fact that the amperage demand is lower. The only downside is in the event that someone is electrocuted...

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