Leaperkim Lynx 2700wh: 151V, 20" tire, suspension, 89lb

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, Rollin-on-1 said:

maybe a 22" 151.2v 10P (Abrams S Pro?)

I would like to see a 22", 151.2V Veteran suspension wheel too,  but I would not want more than 6P. Personally, I don't need more range.

Edited October 30, 2023 by techyiam

[Cyberwolf]

3 hours ago, Jason McNeil said:

Amazing,  it looks correct! Packing in 500Wh more capacity (24x additional cells), with a 20" tire, larger frame, while keeping the weight at the same ~40kg/88lb as the Patton! The first time any manufacturer has achieved a significant spec bump, without a corresponding notch in net weight.  

I'd be very curious to see how far that extra 500Wh stretches compared to the Patton; range is a hugely important consideration for me, if only because of how dang far everything here is from everything else...

Just off the top of my head, I'm thinking a that some of the increase would be offset by additional power reqs to spin the larger wheel; adding a little range if rockin' it hard, but significantly more if maintaining somewhat consistent higher speed.  Super interested to see how this works out...

[Rawnei]

3 minutes ago, Cyberwolf said:

I'd be very curious to see how far that extra 500Wh stretches compared to the Patton; range is a hugely important consideration for me, if only because of how dang far everything here is from everything else...

Just off the top of my head, I'm thinking a that some of the increase would be offset by additional power reqs to spin the larger wheel; adding a little range if rockin' it hard, but significantly more if maintaining somewhat consistent higher speed.  Super interested to see how this works out...

If range is important Sherman S makes a lot more sense.

[Jason McNeil]

4 minutes ago, Cyberwolf said:

I'd be very curious to see how far that extra 500Wh stretches compared to the Patton; range is a hugely important consideration for me, if only because of how dang far everything here is from everything else...

Working on an agenda for the review in a couple days: 
- Range test, 20MPH continuous to 0%/3v cell @ 93kg load   
- Find someone willing to break the 100kph barrier in a high-speed run
- Some jump/trail riding  
- Material strength testing of the upgraded magnesium parts
- Evaluation of responsiveness in the lower voltage, 30-0% range, draining to 3V/cell 
- Testing disconnecting the hal wire from board in rotation 
- What the 'Smart Field weakening to Speed Up' & 'Motor Anti Blocking Rotation' features mean in practice, that these improvements will be transferred to the Patton/SS firmware 
- Checking App roadmap for the SmartBMS function to be added on the LK App
- 70lb shock testing  

Anything else you guys would like to see here?  

[RagingGrandpa]

21 hours ago, Jason McNeil said:

Jack mentioned that the 'raw' potential of the motor/controller system was 168KPH free-spin, but they've electronically limited to 125KPH— obviously having a decent >15-20KPH buffer is essential for safety!

Please press them on this point: what safety could a software limiter possibly add? 

  

21 hours ago, Jason McNeil said:

The Preprods are fitted with the CST-186 tire, I've requested that they switch to the tried-and-tested Kenda K262

What's wrong with C-186? I think it's practically identical to K262... fits the same, rides the same.
 

Edited October 30, 2023 by RagingGrandpa
tires

[techyiam]

18 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said:

Anything else you guys would like to see here?  

(1) Compare the ease of acceleration and braking to the Patton, and Master.

(2) After the battery is fully charged, report the voltages of the battery packs.

(3) While charging, verify that cell balancing is taking place using the app.

(4) Show how well the wheel rolls up and down steps when pushed manually by hand.

(5) Show a video clip of the wheel under going emergency braking at 70+ km/h speeds.

(6) With damping set to the lowest settings (least resistance opposing motion), show footage of suspension action when a rider jumps up and down on the pedals, while the wheel is stationary.

(7l Show footage of PWM tiltback in action.

 

[CrabChampion]

53 minutes ago, RagingGrandpa said:

What's wrong with C-186? I think it's practically identical to K262... fits the same, rides the same.

The profile of the two tires is actually different. Same reason why some people prefer the shinko 241 too. The cst 186 is a softer compound rubber, but the edge knobs are much lower than the center 3 rows. This makes riding pavement on the cst186 a pain as when you lean into a corner, your tire falls/locks into the last row of knobs. The rider has to fight the tire back to upright. 

The kenda on the other hand the knob spacing is much more uniform. From knob row to row, the last row of knobs dont have a sudden drop so the tire feels smoother from edge to edge carving. I don't have a pic on hand, but if you can see both tires installed on rims, they have very different profiles

[RagingGrandpa]

26 minutes ago, Cobaltsaber said:

This makes riding pavement on the cst186 a pain as when you lean into a corner

I suspect placebo effect... 
Have you ridden both tires back-to-back on the same EUC? At the same tire pressure?

And C-186 measured softer, for me.

Just get whichever is easier to buy in your country. Europe -> CST. USA -> Kenda. 

  

On 5/28/2020 at 11:34 AM, RagingGrandpa said:

K262 vs C-186:

• K262 knobs are spaced slightly further apart (higher void ratio). More voids are good for loose surfaces and bad for pavement... but the difference is between the two seems marginal.
• Slightly larger OD (sorry I don't have a virgin C-186 to measure... I recommend measuring rolling distance of 1 revolution)
• K262 is just a tiny bit harder, 60 vs 58 via durometer-A

K262 vs H-5102 (original MSX tire):

• Knobs! (duh)
• Larger OD
• (Similar hardness)

Media for those interested:  https://photos.app.goo.gl/BtKqUbJBxK4b4jjT9

 

Edited October 30, 2023 by RagingGrandpa

[Cyberwolf]

1 hour ago, Rawnei said:

If range is important Sherman S makes a lot more sense.

It's one of the main considerations, but definately not the only one - hence the dilemma I now find myself pondering!

[Rawnei]

1 hour ago, Jason McNeil said:

Working on an agenda for the review in a couple days: 
- Range test, 20MPH continuous to 0%/3v cell @ 93kg load   
- Find someone willing to break the 100kph barrier in a high-speed run
- Some jump/trail riding  
- Material strength testing of the upgraded magnesium parts
- Evaluation of responsiveness in the lower voltage, 30-0% range, draining to 3V/cell 
- Testing disconnecting the hal wire from board in rotation 
- What the 'Smart Field weakening to Speed Up' & 'Motor Anti Blocking Rotation' features mean in practice, that these improvements will be transferred to the Patton/SS firmware 
- Checking App roadmap for the SmartBMS function to be added on the LK App
- 70lb shock testing  

Anything else you guys would like to see here?  

Hey Jason, not directly related to the Lynx, but could you possibly nudge LK into implementing PWM Tiltback on the Sherman S as well? It works so well on the Patton. 😅

[Rawnei]

1 hour ago, RagingGrandpa said:

What's wrong with C-186? I think it's practically identical to K262... fits the same, rides the same.

 

It has a more square profile, falls to the side earlier, noticeable and substantial difference in feeling on a lot of wheel, potentially feels better on wider rims though.

[Greg X]

looks very much like.......... next iteration of Sherman. 

Same size, same suspension, same driving capabilities, similiar weight and battery, but.....newer technology and everything improved. 

 

Sherman-S probably will be be cancelled soon, there is NO economic reason to maintain production of 2 almost identical models. 

 

Edited October 30, 2023 by Greg X

[mhpr262]

2 hours ago, Greg X said:

2 almost identical models

50% more battery is a huge difference. But we will most likely see a 150V Sherman S soon if the Lynx battery and power electronics do well.

[tst]

23 hours ago, Critzlez said:

The main thing is that it's $4,200, which at that point you could just get a sherman S or an ex30 and still have plenty of speed while having a much bigger battery

Those aren't 150v. As soon as those are upgraded to 150v (or more) then the Lynx will probably get a price drop.

Now it's one of the hottest newest wheels so their right with asking top dollar if they can.

And strange enough some people actually want to pay more to get less. Less weight in this case. But I know people who pay top dollar to get a phone with NO sd slot and NO aux port. Of laptops with little features but a low weight.

And while I won't buy it I'm happy that others do it:). More money to euc makers then they can improve more. Inmotion now going far with waterproofing and more safety, that's great. Leaperkim having the funds to innovate on magnesium, awesome.

I mean these things are capable of reaching highway speeds now...

Edited October 30, 2023 by tst

[CrabChampion]

10 hours ago, RagingGrandpa said:

Have you ridden both tires back-to-back on the same EUC? At the same tire pressure?

Actually yes. On a master. One v1.5 on kenda and another master v3 on cst. You can distinctly see the last row of knobs drops further on the cst than the kenda tire. The cst tire is good on the wider EX30 rim though, so I wouldnt write off the cst on the leaperkim lynx.

[BKW]

I'm joining this thread late so I know this has likely been discussed already, but...

I see on ewheels they are claiming the wheel goes 100 miles with a 2700Wh battery? Uh, no... right?

[RagingGrandpa]

12 hours ago, Cobaltsaber said:

You can distinctly see the last row of knobs drops further on the cst than the kenda tire.

We're splitting hairs...

Pressure hugely affects the ride feel of this type of tire, be sure to adjust it.

K-262 left vs C186 right

Edited October 31, 2023 by RagingGrandpa

[jimjam.nyc]

2 minutes ago, BKW said:

I'm joining this thread late so I know this has likely been discussed already, but...

I see on ewheels they are claiming the wheel goes 100 miles with a 2700Wh battery? Uh, no... right?

Pretty sure it will be the usual.. On flat surface, 100lb rider, no higher than 20MPH with no wind.. So maybe in space on a treadmill it will go 100 miles on 1 charge (on a warm day) 

Unless they meant 100KM... Which would probably still be a stretch and under perfect conditions.

[BKW]

1 minute ago, jimjam.nyc said:

Pretty sure it will be the usual.. On flat surface, 100lb rider, no higher than 20MPH with no wind.. So maybe in space on a treadmill it will go 100 miles on 1 charge (on a warm day) 

Unless they meant 100KM... Which would probably still be a stretch and under perfect conditions.

Yeah, not even sure why I asked that question lol. Likely that ewheels estimate will change over time

[BKW]

damn, this thing is expensive at 4.2K....yikes

I'd buy the sherman-s over the lynx at that price

Anything that expensive mandatory requires more battery for my taste. This wheel is already off my radar now due to the price alone

Edited October 31, 2023 by BKW

[xiiijojjo]

1 minute ago, BKW said:

I'm joining this thread late so I know this has likely been discussed already, but...

I see on ewheels they are claiming the wheel goes 100 miles with a 2700Wh battery? Uh, no... right?

I'm no electrician but compared to the gotway rs 100v 1800wh this wheel has ~50% more capacity and voltage, so if you were to consistently push this wheel close to the limit and you did the same with the gotway rs you would probably get similar ride durations(not range because of avg speed difference) if I'm not mistaken? 

So if I'm correct we will run into issues in the future where ~200v wheels would need ~2x the amount of batteries for you to get a ride duration similar to that of a 100v 1800wh wheel. 

So if my logic checks out I would only be able to get roughly 1h of top speed riding out of a 200v 3600wh wheel in the same way I can only get 1h on a 100v 1800wh if I push both wheel similarly close to the limit for the entire duration. 

If any of this is true I think the highest voltage I'll go for would be 168v until they make more dense batteries. 

[BKW]

@xiiijojjo LOL, 200 volts. I don't understand the concept of wanting a 200 volt EUC. At that point it'd be kind of redundant and do more depreciation of the battery than I think it's worth

[RagingGrandpa]

50 minutes ago, xiiijojjo said:

~200v wheels would need ~2x the amount of batteries for you to get a ride duration similar to that of a 100v 1800wh wheel. 

No... 

Range is an "energy" topic. Not a "voltage" topic.

Gotway EX.N has 144 cells.
Lynx will have 144 cells.

Ridden at the same speed by the same rider in the same environment, they will have equivalent range.

EX.N will experience more total pack current, at a lower total pack voltage. But because the cell count is the same, the cell current on an individual cell basis is the same, and so runtime is the same.

 

Higher voltage is great because:

• Performance: it increases the speed range of the motor, allowing a higher-torque (slower) motor to be used for the same operation.
• Efficiency: Less energy is wasted to heating up the wires and connections. We no longer need 8 pins worth of charging terminals (e.g.: Sherman) to recharge at 1500W. 

The few drawbacks of higher voltage are:

• Electrocution safety becomes more important.
• Controller components (ICs and capacitors) must be upgraded to withstand the higher voltages.

It's progress! 

[Greg X]

21 hours ago, mhpr262 said:

50% more battery is a huge difference. 

so You say 3600 (real cell capacity is closer to 3400) is 50% more than 2700 ? 

 

Sherman could still exist if they implement there some significant upgrades. But... there is just no free space for more.

If they upgrade SS electonics the only real difference will be only slightly more battery. Like I said - there is no economic reason to maintain production of 2 almost identical models, in this same size and class.

Sherman-S will be probably replaced by some new 22" suspension wheel with 4800wh battery. 

Edited October 31, 2023 by Greg X

[Jason McNeil]

1 hour ago, RagingGrandpa said:

Range is an "energy" topic. Not a "voltage" topic.

FWIW, until the first Lynx demos arrive, Linnea reported this morning. 

We tested it with 75kg rider to ride on normal road with speed ＞50km/h, got 88km range until low voltage alarm. Continue rode it with speed of 25km/h, got another range of 17km. Without switch on low voltage mode. Total range is 105km.