Inmotion V14 Adventure: a new trail wheel from Inmotion

[CrabChampion]

52 minutes ago, Ro.man said:

will be more prone to wobbling and traintracking

I disagree with this. Usually people call street tires more wobbly because they are inherently more nimble. However street tires have a characteristic that most dont talk about and that is the return to center. Knobbies tend to want to stay tilted until you purposely bring the tire back to upright after a turn. On every street tire I have tried, I lean in to turn, then I let off a little and the tire wants to return to center/upright on its own naturally. But yes they are more "wobbly" and more responsive to smaller movements.

As for traintracking I also disagree. Knobbies track way more than a street tire. Especially if you cross those metal grated bridges. On a knobby the grate wants to steer you in any direction and I have to fight the wheel to go where I want. It feels pretty much like normal pavement when I go over those grates on a street tire

[Cerbera]

4 hours ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

Although i agree it's quieter i completely disagree with his diagnosis. The Pilot 2 street tire made my v13 much less wobbly as well as completely eliminated the "train tracking" problem the CST tire had.

Dammit - which one of you is right ?! I got a CST on my wheel now (some ((mainly resistable)) train tracking, noisy but grippy, still a bit tippy on the corners, and a Michelin City Extra sitting here waiting for installation, and then there's me, sitting on the fence between them wondering which might be better for my riding which is 65% street riding and the rest off-road.

What I do like about that CST for town riding is that if you inadvertently run over broken glass, as occasionally happens to me in town there's a good chance your knobby will prevent any punctures just with the sheer depth of rubber it has in those knobs.

[Marty Backe]

22 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

Dammit - which one of you is right ?! I got a CST on my wheel now (some ((mainly resistable)) train tracking, noisy but grippy, still a bit tippy on the corners, and a Michelin City Extra sitting here waiting for installation, and then there's me, sitting on the fence between them wondering which might be better for my riding which is 65% street riding and the rest off-road.

What I do like about that CST for town riding is that if you inadvertently run over broken glass, as occasionally happens to me in town there's a good chance your knobby will prevent any punctures just with the sheer depth of rubber it has in those knobs.

Have you seen how thick the rubber is on our modern wheels, including your street tire? I wouldn't avoid the street tire because of broken glass. This isn't 2016 with our skinny and thin walled 16-inch tires 

[UniVehje]

1 hour ago, Cerbera said:

and then there's me, sitting on the fence between them wondering which might be better for my riding which is 65% street riding and the rest off-road.

We are talking about top range motorcycle tires here. Good street tires have great rubber compounds which make them really grippy. Like what Marty just said, these are not the same as old bicycle tires we had. I ride mostly gravel roads and often do off-road on my City Grip 2. You don’t need a knobby tire ti go off-road. We have all the weight on one wheel so the grip is good anyway. Knobbies are needed for loose or wet dirt. If you ride on dry and compacted dirt, street tire will do just fine. That’s probably most of your off-road riding? That would make a good street tire acceptable for more thab 65% of your riding. You loose some grip on wet grass and loose gravel, but street tire is so much better on everything else. 

[Cerbera]

42 minutes ago, UniVehje said:

That’s probably most of your off-road riding?

Most of my off-roading is on limestone gravel country tracks through woodland etc - lot of big rocks and loose stuff up there...

[Jason McNeil]

17 hours ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

ewheels is offering it with the Chao Yang H626 for street

Pics of the batch 2s, 50S coming in, including the H626 on the V14.

12 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Turns out I was wrong. The valve stem comes out of the rim at an angle that is parallel to the axle and looked like a tubeless valve

From Engineering this morning: there are inner tubes now. We are communicating with the supplier about the feasibility of vacuum tire (time, cost, inventory, etc.) Reply tomorrow.

[eezo]

12 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

I wouldn't go as far as to say it's unethical, but it's bizarre to purposely leave out negative commentary about a wheel. Who the hell wants to read/watch a review of any product without hearing the negatives. I don't think there's ever been a "perfect" product made 

I consider an entity posting a knowingly misleading review to be unethical.

[Punxatawneyjoe]

11 minutes ago, eezo said:

I consider an entity posting a knowingly misleading review to be unethical.

I don't think leaving out negative information in a review can be construed as "misleading". I also think that if you base your life decisions on some selfie absorbed eww tuber's reviews than you have larger problems. These "reviews" should all be "for entertainment purposes only". Everyone has some degree of bias. As with all the information we get nowadays, you have to pick out fact from fiction.

[Rawnei]

I think leaving out important information is shooting yourself in the foot, it will just make a lot of people consider it an unreliable source of information 

[jimjam.nyc]

reiviews are highly subjective. It is informational entertainment. I pretty much neglect the review part of all the reviews I watch, and just look to see if the product they are talking about appeals to me. 

It kind of sucks to leave out details, especially on the negative end and it is misleading.. I probably would just avoid those people's videos going fwd, But I just dont think ethics plays a role in something that has no standard to live up to in the first place. 

 

[Jason McNeil]

FWIW, whenever we send out a demo Wheel, there's never any stipulations for leaving out negativity, censorship, etc. Except when there's incorrect factual statements, e.g. 40T cells lighter than 50E (electrons don't weight that much ), or that the Lynx will have substantially higher efficiency than Patton/Lynx. 

Often encourage valid criticisms, as there's no greater impetus for mfgrs fixing stuff than when it makes it on YouTubes 

Edited January 10 by Jason McNeil

[Mono]

19 hours ago, CrabChampion said:

The street tire will have more grip in most cases on paved roads. You simply have more contact area with the pavement

Contrary to a common belief, the grip of the vehicle is not proportional to the contact area. Grip is proportional to pressure which is inverse proportional to the contact area which directly cancels the added grip from an increased area, at least in first order.

Edited January 10 by Mono

[Mono]

11 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said:

FWIW, whenever we send out a demo Wheel, there's never any stipulations for leaving out negativity, censorship, etc.

Right, but the usual way of censorship it is to stop sending demo wheels to those people who have done bad reviews in the past too often. I am not saying that is what you do, we can all see that you use critical evaluations as leverage for pushing manufacturers to make better products which is exactly how it should be.

Edited January 10 by Mono

[RagingGrandpa]

29 minutes ago, Mono said:

in first order

Almost nothing is that simple in the real world    

 

19 hours ago, CrabChampion said:

The street tire will have more grip in most cases on paved roads.

Agreed.

But does it matter?
Do you find the traction limits during street riding?

Excluding surface problems, rain, ice, oil, etc... I think it's very uncommon for EUC riders to be near the traction limit on pavement.
At least not the longitudinal limit: our motor dips before the tire slips, on a good paved surface. 

(Instead, I think the benefit of a street tire is 'ride feel.')
 

Edited January 10 by RagingGrandpa

[Mono]

22 minutes ago, RagingGrandpa said:

Almost nothing is that simple in the real world    

right, in particular that more contact area means more grip  turns out to be a far too simple (I dare to say, wrong) model

Edited January 10 by Mono

[novazeus]

13 minutes ago, RagingGrandpa said:

Instead, I think the benefit of a street tire is 'ride feel.')

and quietness. pressurized up above max, the knobbies aren't bad noise wise on my road, but the street tires are almost silent. 

i resurfaced my road 25 years ago but with the cows and trees it's gotten pretty rough. idk which tire is better in my 90 degree curve at 20 plus mph. with my loose aggregate, might actually be the knobby. 

it's cold here now but 57f, but i might get out and roll my pastures for paths. on my hardpack pasture turf, street tires are the best, but knobbies work fine too. 

there are no rocky/pebbled trails i know of around tampa bay, unless somebody trucked it in from up north. that's where knobbies shine and street tires would suck inflated properly. 

look at where @Dufrides. there is no place he needs a knobby. 

[novazeus]

6 minutes ago, Mono said:

right, in particular that more contact area means more grip  turns out to be a far too simple (I dare to say, wrong) model

haha, and yeah, be careful what u wish for as i found out upsizing from 80 to 90 width. 

looks great but rides like that basketball wheel i would imagine feels like.

like ooh i love my 80mm wide michelin

i'll love my 90mm size michelin more, and it looks cooler.

and it makes riding more difficult.

 

[Ronin]

2 hours ago, jimjam.nyc said:

reiviews are highly subjective. It is informational entertainment. I pretty much neglect the review part of all the reviews I watch, and just look to see if the product they are talking about appeals to me. 

It kind of sucks to leave out details, especially on the negative end and it is misleading.. I probably would just avoid those people's videos going fwd, But I just dont think ethics plays a role in something that has no standard to live up to in the first place. 

 

It's unfortunate. On my reviews i spend a lot of time thinking of what needs to be highlighted (good or bad). But i do acknowledge that some riders just want to be entertained and discard the informative part when watching eucs reviews. 

This black V14 with the knobby-ish street tire looks like a new wheel.  Have the reported suspension linkage issues been fixed (stiffness) ? 

Edited January 10 by Ronin Ryder

[jimjam.nyc]

9 minutes ago, Ronin Ryder said:

It's unfortunate. On my reviews i spend a lot of time thinking of what needs to be highlighted (good or bad). But i do acknowledge that some riders just want to be entertained and discard the informative part when watching eucs reviews. 

This black V14 with the knobby-ish street tire looks like a new wheel.  Have the reported suspension linkage issues been fixed (stiffness) ? 

Well I think its unfortunate for others.. Not for you. Your reviews stand out as some of the more thought out with credible information. Its the reason I watch almost all of your reviews that come out, and probably why others watch them and interact positively with you. But the end review of it is really not what I am watching for. I am watching for the info you provide, and take into consideration your points of interest (good or bad). Either way, a lot of the time what someone feels is a negative or a positive does not always line up with what I consider negative or positive. So i am not putting down reviewers in general.. Just more saying it is up to us to decide what we get out of these reviews. Most of these overly positive and overly negative videos easy to spot at this point. 

Not sure if the linkage issues have been fixed. According to the update notes they have been. I guess we will need to wait a bit for the new black colored version to get in the hands of some people! 

 

 

 

 

[UniVehje]

13 hours ago, novazeus said:

the knobbies aren't bad noise wise on my road, but the street tires are almost silent. 

Apart from ride feel, this is the most annoying thing about knobbies. I like it silent and can give up some grip for that. 
 

V14 looks really good with that new tire. A nice intermediate tire. Probably balanced between noise, grip and feel. I think manufacturers should ship with these types of tires and then enthusiasts can later choose either more street or more knobby. Hybrid tires should work for everyone before they plunge into tire world. 
 

I wish they’d make a bigger version of V14, I would have chosen that instead of Lynx. Maybe. 

Edited January 11 by UniVehje

[techyiam]

32 minutes ago, UniVehje said:

I wish they’d make a bigger version of V14, I would have chosen that instead of Lynx. Maybe.

I would like to see a 20" wheel from Inmotion. I would also like to see an S22 Pro replacement from Kingsong. 

[Unventor]

7 hours ago, eezo said:

I consider an entity posting a knowingly misleading review to be unethical.

Or you could think what is not mentioned might leave room for your own interpretation. 

Let me put it this way if  politicians speak only what does not work in their view what does that leave me of a choice? The lesser evil. 

Should someone speak of what that person want to do of a problem that means I know what he or she stand for, and that give me a choice to agree support this or not. 

Does this mean that their might not be a better choice? Nope but if it isn't clear to me what to expect it is not a better known choice 8n my view. 

I could not care less if some thing is better (as in faster or cheaper) if what I expect is delivered and I accepted to pay the cost. 

I doubt the V14 is perfect in all regards, but my V11 was great and I do expect Inmotion to deliver this with V14. It is also why I don't look to other brands. I briefly looked at kingsong but Inmotion is much more on par with what I want for my next wheel. 

Fanboy or not it is expectation to the brand from the history I had with it. 

[DavidB]

17 hours ago, Jason McNeil said:

FWIW, whenever we send out a demo Wheel, there's never any stipulations for leaving out negativity, censorship, etc. Except when there's incorrect factual statements, e.g. 40T cells lighter than 50E (electrons don't weight that much ), or that the Lynx will have substantially higher efficiency than Patton/Lynx. 

Often encourage valid criticisms, as there's no greater impetus for mfgrs fixing stuff than when it makes it on YouTubes 

Jason any chance of getting the OG manufacturers to use real Wh capacity when advertising their wheels? In the vein of Marty's intro "calling everything out for what it is" their claimed battery capacities are not even close.

Take the Samsung 50S. Samsung gives all the data in their MDS. The 5000mAh 50S is measured from 4.2V to 2.5V and they guarantee min. 4800mAh but it is common knowledge that the EUC wheels shut down at ~3.0-3.1V.

Marty found the V14 became a crawler at 102V (~3.2V/cell). If you look at the data the cell's capacity from 4.2V to 3.1 V it is only 4200mAh.  It would also appear the EUC manufacturers use 3.7V as the nominal voltage when Samsung says it is 3.6Volts.

 

 

But there is more. In the same data sheet Samsung give a guarantee of recovery of capacity after storage of 90% of original capacity after 1 month storage.

1 MONTH!! That would be the shipping time wouldn't it?

So the reality the V14 (this is also true for any wheel) could turn up at your door with only ~1740Wh instead of 2400Wh.

That is 4200mAh x 3.6V x 128cells =1935Wh in new/best case  and only 1740Wh if there was a 10% degradation from storage/shipping.

Marty found in his first ride of the V14 that it was not fun to ride after 46miles so maybe 3.2V is the realistic cut-off point. In that case you can reduce the capacity another 5%.

Of course this inflation of usable capacity is not restricted to Inmotion. They all do it. But they should be more honest. They should use the manufactures nominal voltage. If they average the max 4.2V and their set min of 3.2V to get a 3.7V nominal voltage then they can't use use the cell manufacturers capacity figures which assume a 2.5V cutoff. So that is a 20% reduction of capacity right there from what they claim.

 

PS the above graph is for 10A, at 25A discharge the capacity is even less.

[UniVehje]

59 minutes ago, DavidB said:

Of course this inflation of usable capacity is not restricted to Inmotion. They all do it.

I think this is the key, not the actual practice. The number itself is pretty meaningless. It doesn't tell us anything on its own. It's a comparative number that has meaning only in relation to others. What I mean is that you cannot know if the number is good or bad unless you know how it translates to mileage and especially compared to other wheels. As long as everybody calculates it in same manner, it doesn't matter. 

And there you have the actual problem. They don't all calculate Wh in same manner. And this is what should be fixed. Inmotion and KS use different method than Begode and LeaperKim. What is 3200 Wh on Begode is 3000 Wh on Inmotion. Same number of cells. We had 1554 Wh on 18 XL and 1600 Wh on MSX, same number of cells. Or 1750 Wh on V12 and 1800 Wh on Gotway 100v wheels, same number of cells.

Again, as long as they all do it the same way it doesn't really matter. However, you have a point in that real Wh figure would help us predict our range now that the apps have a section showing our current and average Wh/km. For me it's just a number at the moment because I cannot predict for example that my average 14 Wh/km would translate to 2700 Wh (Lynx) / 14 = my range in km. The real usable Wh is much lower. 

[DavidB]

You are right. It is all realitive. It is just numbers. But it would be better if they were factual. I saw a interview with Bob the former Inmotion CEO. He said he tried to get the other manufacturers to coordinate on certain standards etc. None were interested. Seems they don't get on. It may take some outside pressure. I suspect that will come from legislation. UL certification is the obvious one. When hoverboards were catching fire left and right some/most governments banned their importation. I guess when it affects the bottom line they may set differences aside and work together.