Veteran Patton 16" 126v 2220wh

[Milordas]

On 2/5/2023 at 5:02 PM, mrelwood said:

This is getting interesting! Especially when old rumors say that KingSong S16 would be their next wheel as well. So three manufacturers all try to fight for the 16” crown next!

@techyiam is right though, in that I still might not find a reason to upgrade myself.

yes and still no good 18" exist (not counting 18XL as its only 2,5"), only fighting 16 and 20 wheels

[techyiam]

2 minutes ago, Milordas said:

yes and still no good 18" exist (not counting 18XL as its only 2,5"), only fighting 16 and 20 wheels

The 18XL has a 14" rim. So does the S22.

[Milordas]

1 minute ago, techyiam said:

The 18XL has a 14" rim. So does the S22.

18XL is 18" wheel, not rim, and S22 is 20" wheel

[techyiam]

10 minutes ago, Milordas said:

18XL is 18" wheel, not rim, and S22 is 20" wheel

You can mount the 18XL tire on the S22.

[gon2fast]

It is more about tire clearance than wheel size (18/20). Lower sidewall height points to 18" while expanded tire clearance can accommodate a 2..75-14 dirtbike tire which is considered a 20". 

[zer0dayexploit]

23 hours ago, Rollin-on-1 said:

I too consider myself fortunate.  Luckily KS fw manages the tiltback quite well. However, I don't like reviewing my ride and seeing low single digits for remaining safety margin.  I've seen 3% and 4% more often than I like.

Hey there how do you check that safety margin? Is it PWM?

[Tawpie]

1 hour ago, zer0dayexploit said:

Hey there how do you check that safety margin? Is it PWM?

EUC World shows the safety margin

[zer0dayexploit]

3 hours ago, Tawpie said:

EUC World shows the safety margin

Ah I don’t have euc world, only DarknessBot and KingSong. I try keep PWM under 80% as my “safety margin” so I don’t overtorque at low speeds or on bumpy roads

[CrabChampion]

Veteran Patton. 16" 126v 3000w motor, 2 different freespin speeds, 89lbs weight

[jmsjms]

Would the suspension be the same liquid suspension as on the Sherman-S? If so, then the wheel will come in two different suspension setups for lighter riders and heavier riders?

What about Smart BMS?

[Adel]

The Sherman-S will not go to 126v but most likely 134V.  3600wh 100v battery packs can be easily reconfigured with the same number of cells to implement 3600wh 134V. You just go from 24s8p to 32s6p (192 cells). 126v systems are 30s and 192 doesn’t divide into 30, so you either have to lose or add cells to build the battery pack. So the most likely path for a Sherman-S 126V is a 30s6p (180 cells) so you would lose 12 cells or about 6% capacity. This is also why commander pro 3600wh pack was easily converted to 134V.

[Tawpie]

5 hours ago, Tawpie said:

EUC World shows the safety margin

Actually, all of the sudden I'm not certain about anything labeled "safety margin" on LK wheels. It's basically the inverse of PWM and quite honestly, PWM is what matters in the end no matter what it's called!

[Bustapalapno]

2 hours ago, Cobaltsaber said:

Veteran Patton. 16" 126v 3000w motor, 2 different freespin speeds, 89lbs weight

I'm suddenly less optimistic about this model. 2200Whs is about the battery size I would expect for a 16" wheel, but 90lb is not the weight I would want from a "smaller" wheel. The T4 weights 67lbs with a smaller 1800Wh battery. the S22 only weighs 77lbs. That combined with a similar looking trolley handle (which I hate on my Sherman-S), this doesn't look like a wheel for me. 

[techyiam]

Even a 16", 2220Wh suspension wheel is 90 lbs. However, it does get the 126V motor drive system.

The good news is that most likely, the 126 volt will trickle up to the Sherman-S. 

This wheel should be easier to ride; it is going to be a premium, high speed city commuter. 

It won't do well in high speed group rides.

For 7 lbs more, you can get a Sherman-S. 

Just wondering whether is this the smaller wheel Europeans like @mrelwood would consider?

Edited March 12, 2023 by techyiam

[KiwiMark]

49 minutes ago, Bustapalapno said:

I'm suddenly less optimistic about this model. 2200Whs is about the battery size I would expect for a 16" wheel, but 90lb is not the weight I would want from a "smaller" wheel.

I'm right with you. I can see a benefit to having suspension like my Sherman S rather than no suspension like my V12HT. But my V12HT is my smaller/lighter wheel and replacing it with a 40.5kg wheel doesn't make any sense. Personally, I just don't care about the 126V. My Sherman S has all the power, speed & range I need/want. I don't believe it is necessary (for me at least) to have more torque while still having as much speed.

 Now, for someone that doesn't have a Sherman S and might like a 16" wheel instead of an 18/19/20" wheel, maybe this would be worth considering. You would want to care more about riding trails and 126V power than range because there is no way the range would match a 3,600Wh wheel like the Sherman S.

[techyiam]

This tile of this thread needs a name changed. 

We now know it will be called the Veteran Patton.

Edited March 12, 2023 by techyiam

[techyiam]

3 minutes ago, KiwiMark said:

Now, for someone that doesn't have a Sherman S and might like a 16" wheel instead of an 18/19/20" wheel, maybe this would be worth considering.

This wheel is spec'd so different than the traditional 16" wheels. This makes me think Leaper Kim is opening up a new genre?

It almost sounds like a slightly more refined Sherman-S, but with a 16" wheel and 4P battery configuration. 

If they use high discharge cells, then this could be a more nimble, easier to ride Sherman-S, but with less range.

Right off the bat, this wheel would be a better wheel than the Sherman-S for beginners learning to ride for the first time.

Not sure how this wheel will sell.

But I will be excited to demo it. It could be an interesting wheel.

My problem now is that I have grown accustomed to the small motorcycle-like stability of my Abrams.

Not sure how I would react to the Veteran Patton. 

[KiwiMark]

23 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Right off the bat, this wheel would be a better wheel than the Sherman-S for beginners learning to ride for the first time.

Maybe, but I'd recommend something lighter and cheaper - maybe a 2nd hand lighter wheel rather than a new 40.5kg wheel.

One day I might change my V12HT for a suspension 16" wheel, but it really needs to be reasonably light or I might as well just ride the Sherman S. For now I'll keep the V12HT as a backup wheel and lighter/smaller wheel.

[CrabChampion]

1 hour ago, Bustapalapno said:

I'm suddenly less optimistic about this model. 2200Whs is about the battery size I would expect for a 16" wheel, but 90lb is not the weight I would want from a "smaller" wheel

Yea im not really sure who this wheel is for? Its 16" wheel but not a lightweight option for a trail wheel, but not nice and stable with enough battery to be a proper street wheel. As an all rounder, I would want to step up to 20" wheel size. Just seems like they packed the performance into this wheel and it really suffered from the weight

[Adel]

Wrong direction for Leaperkim. Their most urgent priority should be 134V Sherman-S  follow on.

Edited March 12, 2023 by Adel

[Bustapalapno]

4 minutes ago, Adel said:

Wrong direction for Leaperkim. Their most urgent priority should be 134V Sherman-S  follow on.

I disagree. Having ridden all the major 20” releases, Veteran acceleration is limited by more than just voltage. It’s also motor design and software. The speed demons already bought their 134V, 20” wheels from Begode anyway, I don’t think there is much more  room in the market  

There is definitely more money to be made in the mid/small wheel sector. A T4-equivalent from Veteran would be an instant buy from me. This wheel looks to be much larger. 

[CrabChampion]

35 minutes ago, Adel said:

Wrong direction for Leaperkim. Their most urgent priority should be 134V Sherman-S  follow on.

I don't think so. The large 20-22" suspension wheel market is already saturated. Coming out with a 134v sherman-s now would just cannibalize their own sherman-s sales and most have already bought their big 3000+wh wheel. Leaperkim has chosen to move on and try to win the 16" market which is looking to be extremely competitive this year. Lets see if they manage to pull it off with a 89lbs 16" wheel

[techyiam]

5 hours ago, KiwiMark said:

Maybe, but I'd recommend something lighter and cheaper - maybe a 2nd hand lighter wheel rather than a new 40.5kg wheel.

Totally agree. I was thinking along the lines of new riders like Kitty who convinced herself that the one wheel she can afford and wants to get is the Sherman-S for learning and foreseeable future riding. She said she could afford to only buy one wheel. The Sherman-S is a nice premium wheel to be sure, but the tricky part is to learn to ride on a 100 lbs 20"wheel.

5 hours ago, KiwiMark said:

One day I might change my V12HT for a suspension 16" wheel, but it really needs to be reasonably light or I might as well just ride the Sherman S. For now I'll keep the V12HT as a backup wheel and lighter/smaller wheel.

I think you have a great combination of wheels.

On hindsight, I am still glad I bought the T3 before the V12. I am just an average folk who doesn't have special skills for riding electric wheels.

My combination of wheels consist of my T3, V12, and Abrams. The Abrams was supposedly for learning about big heavy wheels, and see if they are suitable for me. But now, I have grown to really like it for commuting. The premium, smooth refined feel, and small motorcycle-like stability is quite addictive.

Unfortunately, even for a 22" wheel, on bumpy roads, there is still too much discomfort for me.

So I am still looking for a suspension wheel.

The wheels that you want for your stable really makes a lot of sense.

Edited March 12, 2023 by techyiam

[mrelwood]

On 3/11/2023 at 8:00 AM, Milordas said:

yes and still no good 18" exist (not counting 18XL as its only 2,5"), only fighting 16 and 20 wheels

So, how about a so called 20” wheel with a street tire? That would make it as close to 18” that a 3” wide tire can be.

4 hours ago, techyiam said:

Just wondering whether is this the smaller wheel Europeans like @mrelwood would consider?

Hah, just guess…

I now have a 27kg 1500Wh 18”/20” suspension wheel. Bumping the battery to 2220Wh and adding rebound adjustments should weigh about 30kg in total. Instead, ShermS 16” has a smaller tire and weighs 10kg extra. It’s clear that the weight has not gotten any kind of consideration from the manufacturer.

 How can they manage to make it so heavy?? Where is all the extra weight??

[Mango]

Named after a tank. Weighs as much as a tank.