God Mod- Buyer Beware.

[GoGeorgeGo]

as far as i understand how different ride modes work, it involves the capacitors as part of the power delivery calculations. so it makes sense that pedals will feel harder, as the firmware calculations for pedal sensitivity are changed. this is why people who try it say they notice a difference, because there is a difference. but that difference does not necessarily produce more torque or increase safety margins.

i do believe, that it may allow you to better utilize the available torque. i think the super hard pedals may be bemeficial.for.hardcore offroad riders trying to maximise their torque reaponse on the wheel. but i dont think it will actually increase power output in any meaningful way. so you could say there is a placebo effect but also a beneficial effect for certain scenarios.

its going to be 60 degrees on friday. this is when i will conduct my testing (it was between 20 and -7 degrees on my days off this week 😶). i also purchased some capacitors of my own. so we will do a 3 way test between no adds, god mod, and george mod, and see what happens 

[techyiam]

21 minutes ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

we will do a 3 way test between no adds, god mod, and george mod, and see what happens

I look forward to this test.

Would appreciate if you could show how your capacitors are soldered onto the existing capacitors. 

FYI, I soldered the new capacitors on without any intermediary wires. I used no additional wires, just the leads on the capacitors, if that makes a difference. 

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, KiwiMark said:

Sensei Vegan says "yes, that is what I feel" - isn't this how the placebo effect works? The thing you expect to experience is what you convince yourself that you experience.

Can you in your own words give your placebo version of the gain with the mod. Also, don't go back and rewatch the videos. While you at it, can you also make up what the motor would sound like after the mod?

Sensai Vegan, IMO, gave a description quite precisely to what one would feel. He did not describe the same way as I did, but it told a very similar story.

I guess there is no substitute for experience. 

[KiwiMark]

52 minutes ago, techyiam said:

I guess there is no substitute for experience. 

I would argue that there is no substitute for objective measurement.

Sensai Vegan describes instant power like a super charger compared to a turbo charger, but electric motors are more responsive than either turbo chargers or super chargers. He says it feels more instant, but is it in fact more instant or does he just feel that it is? He talks about less pedal dip, but my RS HS in hard mode has no pedal dip that I can feel, it seems pretty darned hard to me. Are his pedals actually harder with the god mod or does he just perceive it that way because he is expecting it to be that way? Does the motor actually sound any different or is he just perceiving it differently because he is expecting to be different?

There is plenty of evidence that the placebo effect is real and that people can believe that there is quite a big difference in their symptoms after ingesting a sugar pill that they believe is medicine. You shouldn't underestimate how much what you perceive is affected by what your brain is expecting to perceive. There is a reason to prefer evidence from a double-blind study. There is a reason why a blind taste test is used instead of just tasting something when you know what brand it is. Even professional wine tasters have been fooled by a bit of food colouring added to white wine so that it looks like red wine.

Objective measurement is . . . well, it is objective. How your wheel feels after a modification is rather subjective and something subjective is susceptible to bias brought in by what you might expect to feel. I do not believe myself to be immune from this bias, so I would trust objective measurement over my personal experience.

[techyiam]

8 minutes ago, KiwiMark said:

I would argue that there is no substitute for objective measurement.

There is on one stopping you from do this. If you could be so kind, and shared your findings. 

As he had alluded at the outset, he was not on a mission to prove or to convince people that the GodMod works.

10 minutes ago, KiwiMark said:

Sensai Vegan describes instant power like a super charger compared to a turbo charger, but electric motors are more responsive than either turbo chargers or super chargers. He says it feels more instant, but is it in fact more instant or does he just feel that it is? He talks about less pedal dip, but my RS HS in hard mode has no pedal dip that I can feel, it seems pretty darned hard to me. Are his pedals actually harder with the god mod or does he just perceive it that way because he is expecting it to be that way? Does the motor actually sound any different or is he just perceiving it differently because he is expecting to be different?

I can tell from this paragraph that you have never experienced the gain from a capacitor mod.

The way he put it together and delivered, suble details, it was convincing. How you interpret what he said could be one way to look at it. But should you have had the experience, you won't have interpreted that way. You would have known exactly what he meant.

14 minutes ago, KiwiMark said:

There is plenty of evidence that the placebo effect is real and that people can believe that there is quite a big difference in their symptoms after ingesting a sugar pill that they believe is medicine. You shouldn't underestimate how much what you perceive is affected by what your brain is expecting to perceive.

It is not like: It must have worked, I no longer have the symptoms. 

He had to describe in his own words how it felt from the gain. No way he would he would have gotten it right if he did not experience it first hand. He would most likely say what you said above.

18 minutes ago, KiwiMark said:

Does the motor actually sound any different or is he just perceiving it differently because he is expecting to be different?

It was a trick question. I did not hear he mentioned about motor sound. Although, I did with my Abrams. In no way could it have been psychological.

Motor sound is easy to prove since it can be recorded. 

 

[KiwiMark]

8 minutes ago, techyiam said:

There is on one stopping you from do this. If you could be so kind, and shared your findings. 

The trouble is that I don't feel a need for the described improvements on any of my wheels. I'm also not a person that likes to pull apart a perfectly working device to mod it. I'd also be reluctant to buy any wheel that I thought would need this mod.

I'm happy to accept that this mod works as advertised, I'd just like the evidence to be on the side of it working. By evidence I don't mean anecdotes, any good scientists could tell you how much value they put on anecdotes. What is satisfactory as evidence is repeatable objective measurement, that is the stuff I like from people that wish to convince me of something. Unfortunately nothing you say is very convincing, you have all the subjectivity and none of the objectivity.

I'm certainly not claiming that it hasn't helped the Abrams. Maybe the Abrams was not designed well enough and didn't have the number of capacitors that it should have and maybe this mod fixed a specific flaw in this specific wheel. That still wouldn't make it a mod that will supercharge any wheel. I'd still love to see objective testing of the Abrams that might possibly show that LK screwed up in the design and should have made it with more capacitors all along. Maybe LK could re-release the Abrams with a new version that works great and never cuts-out when they are shown that the whole time they just needed to add more capacitors, I would consider that a pretty good thing if it happened!

[techyiam]

8 minutes ago, KiwiMark said:

Maybe LK could re-release the Abrams with a new version that works great and never cuts-out when they are shown that the whole time they just needed to add more capacitors, I would consider that a pretty good thing if it happened!

I would like to see LeaperKim to come out with a 22" Sherman S and 126-volt sometimes in the future. 

Kevin did not use the cap mod to fix the random cutouts of the Abrams. He wanted to be able to go over a particular speed bump at 45 mph without cutout.

[Tawpie]

Maybe just buy it, it might make your wheel feel better and there's nothing wrong with that. I bought expensive pedals because they make my wheels feel better, and I challenge anyone to prove that it doesn't. (truth moment: it's unlikely they actually make me or my wheels perform better than my spiked grip tape mod, but they sure look better and that makes me feel better and whether or not they do anything better you all can go jump in the lake)

Just know that GodMod might not do diddly to save you from an over power shutdown. It probably has a better chance of 'feeling' better than it does saving you from an overlean, but since we aren't going to be getting any detailed information from the seller and the labels on the caps have been peeled off it's difficult to apply mathematics to figuring the odds.

When you do test the limits, be fully prepared to crash. (that goes without saying anytime you push the limits)

If it improves the way your wheel feels, yay for GodMod.

If you don't crash, double yay for GodMod.

If you do crash and lose faith or for whatever reason don't like it, you have 90 days to return it. You might need to replace your lazyrolling jacket and if you're unlucky twice, a few parts on your wheel. But you'll get your $150 back.

Hopefully you'll be none the worse for the experience (and I do mean that sincerely)

[KiwiMark]

29 minutes ago, techyiam said:

I would like to see LeaperKim to come out with a 22" Sherman S and 126-volt sometimes in the future. 

^This! But with extensive testing before releasing it so it is good like the Sherman, not plagued with issues like the Abrams. Also - minimum of 3,600Wh.

In fact I'd like a 16" version and a 22" version of my Sherman S - the holy trinity of EUCs! The right wheel for any situation - choose the small, medium or large LK wheel and go ride!

[GHOSTTE]

44 minutes ago, techyiam said:

I would like to see LeaperKim to come out with a 22" Sherman S and 126-volt sometimes in the future. 

Kevin did not use the cap mod to fix the random cutouts of the Abrams. He wanted to be able to go over a particular speed bump at 45 mph without cutout.

Whatever the step up from 134v they should do that to give Begode a challenge

[techyiam]

11 minutes ago, KiwiMark said:

In fact I'd like a 16" version and a 22" version of my Sherman S - the holy trinity of EUCs! The right wheel for any situation - choose the small, medium or large LK

The Sherman-S 16" owners will be the Guinea pigs for the 126-volt system.

When Leaper Kim retrofit a 22" wheel in the Sherman-S, I hope also they will add a cross-brace across the top like what Extreme Bull has done with the Commander Pro. Additionally, they should provide compression and rebound dampening adjusters on both legs.

[techyiam]

27 minutes ago, GHOSTTE said:

Whatever the step up from 134v they should do that to give Begode a challenge

I suspect that would be a tall order for Leaper Kim since they have been slow in coming out with 126-volt system. 

I think if they can make the 126-volt system reliable, I think they would still be competitive.

I guess this also depends on how much quality Begode can muster to put into new 2023 models.

[Paul A]

It could create a false sense of security, induce riders to exceed their usual limits, and have a cut out.

[GoGeorgeGo]

4 hours ago, techyiam said:

I look forward to this test.

Would appreciate if you could show how your capacitors are soldered onto the existing capacitors. 

FYI, I soldered the new capacitors on without any intermediary wires. I used no additional wires, just the leads on the capacitors, if that makes a difference. 

these caps are to big to add to the board they will wired in parralel with the battery. 160v 3300uf caps

[techyiam]

59 minutes ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

these caps are to big to add to the board they will wired in parralel with the battery. 160v 3300uf caps

I see.

I have only added four 160V 560uF capacitors. 

How many 3300 uF bad boys are you adding?

Edited February 7, 2023 by techyiam

[daniel1234]

On 1/31/2023 at 3:48 AM, GoGeorgeGo said:

i will find an incline that the wheel cant climb without cutout and try it with and without the mod. not much injury risk there.

i will find a cluster of aggressive roots from a tree to instantly over torque the wheel over. more injury risk here but still if im ready to fall it shouldnt be to risky. 

then a range style test that wont involve cutout

You can try low speed curb climb - and slowly increase size of step until you find sweet spot.

[daniel1234]

Without a proper bench Dyno test is hard to even test riders' claims.

If somebody sells that solution I would expect some testing video where Motor is loaded beyond its capabilities to see it in action - without damaging EUC or Rider. Repeat with and without cap - change cap size/wires/connection point.

I can see a usecase for EUC with less battery - as mine s18 to get from them extra kick.  

[techyiam]

When electric wheel manufacturers introduce a new model, do they run performance tests and report those, or are there demos rides made available, and also have influencers review them.

It would probably be more convincing and simpler if they just run demo rides on wheels with and without GodMod. 

[SquallLHeart]

so very late to the party... but I was in the chat during the livestream.. and all I got were snake oil and scam vibes from it.

everything that it claims to do, and coming from an engineering background, it's exactly what capacitors do in a circuit.. so when I called it out in the chat, Declan's response was comparing it to a bakery.. getting the basic ingredients and then putting it all together.. so yea.. he admits it's capacitors.. but yanno.. it's "something more" as well.. ok..?

later on, I attempted to question his qualifications.. what engineering background he supposedly has.. and most of the stuff I got was how long he's been in the EUC community and how long he's been riding.. a complete and utter deflection of the question.

while I got a slight genuine feeling that he was doing this to really help the community.. the aspect of charging people that much for some components that are supposedly expertly baked together (going back to the bakery analogy).. still seems like a bunch of nonsense.

I am absolutely fine not wasting my money on purchasing what he has to offer.. and if and when I want to add some extra capacitors for whatever reason.. I'll just put something together myself.. in the meantime, I'm good.

[Roadpower]

The defections were a problem for me as well. I'm still not ascribing motive to him but once I see deflections to pointed questions... Well let just say this is far from my first rodeo.

[winterwheel]

13 hours ago, Paul A said:

It could create a false sense of security, induce riders to exceed their usual limits, and have a cut out.

Exactly. 

[techyiam]

@GoGeorgeGo will be giving his own account on how the GodMod, Capacitor Mod, and No Mod compare soon.

I am interested in what he had to say. I don't suspect @GoGeorgeGo was paid to promote GodMod nor to sell capacitors by capacitor manufacturers.

 

 

 

Edited February 7, 2023 by techyiam

[GoGeorgeGo]

15 hours ago, SquallLHeart said:

so very late to the party... but I was in the chat during the livestream.. and all I got were snake oil and scam vibes from it.

everything that it claims to do, and coming from an engineering background, it's exactly what capacitors do in a circuit.. so when I called it out in the chat, Declan's response was comparing it to a bakery.. getting the basic ingredients and then putting it all together.. so yea.. he admits it's capacitors.. but yanno.. it's "something more" as well.. ok..?

later on, I attempted to question his qualifications.. what engineering background he supposedly has.. and most of the stuff I got was how long he's been in the EUC community and how long he's been riding.. a complete and utter deflection of the question.

while I got a slight genuine feeling that he was doing this to really help the community.. the aspect of charging people that much for some components that are supposedly expertly baked together (going back to the bakery analogy).. still seems like a bunch of nonsense.

I am absolutely fine not wasting my money on purchasing what he has to offer.. and if and when I want to add some extra capacitors for whatever reason.. I'll just put something together myself.. in the meantime, I'm good.

i can assure you there is no special sauce. its just capacitors wired in parralel

[Paul A]

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[Robse]

15 minutes ago, Paul A said:

https://vitalityair.com/

 

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