God Mod- Buyer Beware.

[Uras]

2 hours ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

This discussion is funny. EUC community="build us better safer wheels" "overbuild it if you have to".....inmotion v13.....EUC community= "too many parts""more opportunity for problems" ..even though there hasn't been even  one.

I think you've misunderstood; it could be safer or it could be a sales gimmick. Some of us aren't making those assumptions. You're assuming it's safer because it has more mosfets and capacitors etc. It's still a new wheel - very few people have it; time will tell.

Edited January 28, 2023 by Uras

[GHOSTTE]

Just now, Uras said:

I think you've misunderstood; it could be safer or it could be a sales gimmick. Some of us aren't making those assumptions. You're assuming it's safer because it has more mosfets and capacitors etc.

My money is sales gimmick to create the illusion of "safety"

[GoGeorgeGo]

4 hours ago, Rollin-on-1 said:

I don't endorse cutting one open though.  God Mod is Declan's IP.  He has put time and money into making a product that he believes in.  I think skepticism is healthy but it can be tested in a good faith manner that serves the community and respects Declan's IP.

from what i understand he isnt the first one to add extra capacitors to a wheel. plus building one isnt something people will be comfortable doing on their own for the most part. knowing what kind of power ratings we are dealing with is a really basic question, he doesnt need to divulge the exact product being used but at least tell the people the specifications of the product they are buying. 

[GoGeorgeGo]

4 hours ago, Robse said:

now i dont know who is joking who   it's a 1.5 farad cap.  gogeorge would need about 50 of these to builds his funny fantasy 76 farad 100V cap 

https://www.amazon.com/BEEYUIHF-Capacitor-Supercapacitor-Capacitors-H-Type/dp/B0BB76QYHF/ref=mp_s_a_1_8?keywords=super+capacitor&qid=1674849760&sr=8-8#immersive-view_1674849801348

 

these caps a 4 farads each and are quite small. need to just wire 19 of them in series to make a 76f setup

[chanman]

1 hour ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

4 farads each and are quite small. need to just wire 19 of them in series to make a 76f setup

If you think adding caps in series sums the capacitance you might be underqualified for this project.

The voltage on these is also way too low to be useful, we could stick 24 in series to get to 130V ish, probably good enough for our 100V wheels assuming these perform anywhere near their specs (a generous assumption). Unfortunately this is also going to cut our capacitance down to more middling 1/6 F, so we're going to need 456 parallel groups of 24 series to get our 130V 76F cap. At a cost of $2 per piece, this will run you a cool $20k and several months of your life assembling it. Enjoy.

Edited January 28, 2023 by chanman

[Tawpie]

It's too bad the situation didn't really allow him to really feel it out, I got the sense that he had to hold back quite a bit just because there were so many other people. My take away is that he did feel some reduction in bendy pedal events, but still had bendy pedals. He seemed to be pleased with the change (GodMod saving my 'keister') but wasn't exactly endorsing it either. Could just be the situation and the edit though.

 

[KiwiMark]

The god-mod seems to have some effect, but is it any more than the placebo effect?  I can't help wondering exactly how many milliseconds of extra power a bunch of capacitors could possibly provide.

[Paul A]

41 minutes ago, KiwiMark said:

how many milliseconds of extra power a bunch of capacitors could possibly provide.

 

Yes.  Would it even provide the power of one battery?

[chanman]

1 hour ago, KiwiMark said:

I can't help wondering exactly how many milliseconds of extra power a bunch of capacitors could possibly provide.

If we simply things a bit the math on this becomes pretty straightforward actually, energy storage of the capacitor in joules is C*V^2/2, which you can divide by 3600 to get in Wh so the hypothetical megacap proposed by George is actually around 100 Wh, a handful of cells worth, but is of course completely insane to construct.

Let's scale back to maybe a single 24 series of those little supercaps, feasible to construct, actually usable and not too expensive. Numbers for that were 0.6F and 130V, but only applying 100V from the batteries. 1/6*100*100/2= 833J, or 833W for 1 second. Since this energy can be very quickly used or recharged, maybe could help smooth out demand on the cells and compensate for voltage sag when you hit a bump.

However, I'm not sure how much of the energy is actually usable, would it only be the delta of voltage between the sagging cells and the capacitor? In that case the actual usable energy is a few volts on the top end of the curve, making the math look more like 1/6*(100^2-95^2)/2 = 81J? Assuming the cells sag by 5V ish. I'm now getting out my domain a bit so maybe the less amateur electrical engineers can chime in.

Edited January 28, 2023 by chanman

[Hellkitten]

https://t.me/god_mod_euc
 

That’s a link to the godmod telegram channel if anyone is interested.

[Chriull]

4 hours ago, chanman said:

The voltage on these is also way too low to be useful, we could stick 24 in series to get to 130V ish, probably good enough for our 100V wheels assuming these perform anywhere near their specs (a generous assumption). Unfortunately this is also going to cut our capacitance down to more middling 1/6 F, so we're going to need 456 parallel groups of 24 series to get our 130V 76F cap. At a cost of $2 per piece, this will run you a cool $20k and several months of your life assembling it. Enjoy.

One should not forget to add a nice bms once more supercaps are put in series:

"Strings of more than three capacitors require voltage balancing to prevent any cell from going into over-voltage. Lithium-ion batteries share a similar protection circuit." from https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-209-how-does-a-supercapacitor-work

[Bizra6ot]

Mten3 gmod here, Declan:"GOD BOX aka the Ark of the Covenant"

 

 

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

12 hours ago, Paul A said:

The GodMod might be a con.....to extract $150 from people....

Paul, you weren't really listening. I only endured 5 minutes of the video and heard him say that he only wants to help the community. If he says that on camera, then we have to believe it. The fact that he doesn't give details is also just because he is too worried about others who are not as tech savvy as he is, and then try to replicate it and put themselves in danger. 

 

I can't understand this, I gave everyone who has asked me all the technical properties and sources of supply of the material I use for the Power-Pads and leave it up to them to decide if they can handle a sharp knife and sandpaper or possibly cut their fingers off. I'm just an asshole. 🤷‍♂️

 

 

[Freeforester]

12 hours ago, oktothorpe said:

Just like all those ads I see when I visit ****hub.com saying there are hot singles in my area and these blue pills they're selling will make them really like me

For the EUC enthusiast who likes to have a wild ride, ‘come’ this way!!

[GHOSTTE]

31 minutes ago, Freeforester said:

For the EUC enthusiast who likes to have a wild ride, ‘come’ this way!!

Doesn't beat (hehe) this method https://www.vice.com/en/article/qj8pgv/guy-paint-penis-potholes-new-zealand

[Funky]

24 minutes ago, oktothorpe said:

Doesn't beat (hehe) this method https://www.vice.com/en/article/qj8pgv/guy-paint-penis-potholes-new-zealand

If only we could do that on people. You know those "special" cases like crazy karens and such..

[GoGeorgeGo]

4 hours ago, EUC Custom Power-Pads said:

Paul, you weren't really listening. I only endured 5 minutes of the video and heard him say that he only wants to help the community. If he says that on camera, then we have to believe it. The fact that he doesn't give details is also just because he is too worried about others who are not as tech savvy as he is, and then try to replicate it and put themselves in danger. 

 

I can't understand this, I gave everyone who has asked me all the technical properties and sources of supply of the material I use for the Power-Pads and leave it up to them to decide if they can handle a sharp knife and sandpaper or possibly cut their fingers off. I'm just an asshole. 🤷‍♂️

 

 

i think its clear that not giving details is more about keeping the construction secret so people dont make their own or worse, try to compete by producing competitor products. I can understand the secrecy from the buisness perspective.

luckily i have secured a god mod for myself to do testing on. look for a video coming in the next 2 or 3 weeks on the topic. 

i plan to do 3 tests, an incline test, an instant torque test, and a suedo range test.

i will find a consistent incline to climb to attempt to overlean my ex20, i will find some offroad condition that will overlean the ex20, and i will do a 25-40 mile range comparison all with and without the godmod installed. If it has any effect we should see some real world differences in the testing. 

i am a little afraid of blowing the main board, but we will see what happens, i have my t4 and my ebike to hold me over until i can get a replacement if i do blow it. 

[Roadpower]

55 minutes ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

i plan to do 3 tests, an incline test, an instant torque test, and a suedo range test.

This is one of the items that I caught in the three hour video (No I did not watch the whole thing, only about twenty minutes from the suggested time stamp). He said that it wasn't possible to conduct proper tests. This is false in my view. Proper tests can be conducted if you set up jigs for it. There is a popular Youtuber channel titled Project Farm. He is almost annoyingly anal about coming up with all sorts of jigs in which to conduct tests on whatever the item is of the day. He is generally pretty clever about it to.

Anyway my point here is not to poop on your parade, I hope you can divine something useful but in honestly I don't think you will find anything unless it is a dramatic and repeatable difference that can be objectively replicated by others with measurable standards.

[Funky]

1 hour ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

i think its clear that not giving details is more about keeping the construction secret so people dont make their own or worse, try to compete by producing competitor products. I can understand the secrecy from the buisness perspective.

luckily i have secured a god mod for myself to do testing on. look for a video coming in the next 2 or 3 weeks on the topic. 

i plan to do 3 tests, an incline test, an instant torque test, and a suedo range test.

i will find a consistent incline to climb to attempt to overlean my ex20, i will find some offroad condition that will overlean the ex20, and i will do a 25-40 mile range comparison all with and without the godmod installed. If it has any effect we should see some real world differences in the testing. 

i am a little afraid of blowing the main board, but we will see what happens, i have my t4 and my ebike to hold me over until i can get a replacement if i do blow it. 

I hope tests will be done same day. Not over a week long time period.. So user can't be more happy/energetic next day. Have eaten more sugar. Or have had a beer.

One day you don't feel any difference. Next day you feel everything. (But in reality nothing has changed - So called placebo effect.)

 

I wonder how you will test instant torque test. One test you can lean more.. Other test you lean less. - Ofc there will be difference.

Range test -  You need to ride same path, same speed all the time... Any stop/start can make your range differ! (Best option would be going in circles around stadion/running track. Boring i know, but you are testing..) 

 

You could also test max "free-spin" speed and how long it takes to power off, when it hits the max speed. (Just for LoL's.)  

Charging test maybe? (Any spikes or something.) You can test everything you normally do.  

 

 

Edited January 28, 2023 by Funky

[The Brahan Seer]

2 hours ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

i plan to do 3 tests, an incline test, an instant torque test, and a suedo range test

When you do your testing can you make it a double blind one to eliminate any placebo effect.

To do this make up another unit that looks identical in size, looks and weight to the one you are buying and give it to someone else with the original without telling them which is which. Then get them to install either one in your wheel without you seeing. Test the rig. Go back to your mate to install the second one without you seeing and repeat. I know this is a bit of work but without it you will always have doubters re placebo. I really hope this product does do something even if we aren't 100% sure why. I don't buy the protect IP argument because that is what patents are for. You don't see Apple tell iFixit or Maxtech to stop teardowns or  x-raying microchips. I look forward to your results.

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, The Brahan Seer said:

When you do your testing can you make it a double blind one to eliminate any placebo effect.

IMO, there really is no need.

In my case with the Abrams,  there was a very significant difference. The response, acceleration, braking, motor noise, motor smoothness were made better in very obvious ways. For the same rider input, the wheel would now accelerates or brakes stronger. It feels like the pedal sensitivity was increased.

It is really simple. If the gains are not really significant, it would be difficult to justify adding the mod anyway. There are risks in installing non-manufacturers approved mods. So why take the risk for something small.

Edited January 28, 2023 by techyiam

[The Brahan Seer]

33 minutes ago, techyiam said:

IMO, there really is no need.

It seems odd if everyone has the same experience as you that anyone would be doubting its capabilities but maybe that is because they haven't tried it. Or the science they know doesn't add up to what is claimed.

So it does need to be tested this way though, not to convince you but to convince the people who haven't tried it. So they can make an informed decision. 

Maybe a lot does come down to the type of wheel, the configurations etc but a simple test would put the naysayers at rest to some degree.

Perhaps folk are more concerned about how it works so they can evaluate the impact it has on the wheel too, long term. 

Buyers like to know exactly what they are getting. Although when they know  that sometimes doesn't make a difference and they still buy it, like Homeopathy. 

and No I am not saying GodMod is like Homeopathy.....yet

 

[Freeforester]

17 minutes ago, The Brahan Seer said:

It seems odd if everyone has the same experience as you that anyone would be doubting its capabilities but maybe that is because they haven't tried it. Or the science they know doesn't add up to what is claimed.

So it does need to be tested this way though, not to convince you but to convince the people who haven't tried it. So they can make an informed decision. 

Maybe a lot does come down to the type of wheel, the configurations etc but a simple test would put the naysayers at rest to some degree.

Perhaps folk are more concerned about how it works so they can evaluate the impact it has on the wheel too, long term. 

Buyers like to know exactly what they are getting. Although when they know  that sometimes doesn't make a difference and they still buy it, like Homeopathy. 

and No I am not saying GodMod is like Homeopathy.....yet

 

My girl was cured of a pretty strong shellfish allergy some twenty seven years ago, by a female homeopathic doctor in Germany, using a technique referred to as bioresonance; prior to the one session of forty five minutes of treatment, whenever she handled crustaceans she would have itchy fingers and swelling, eg when peeling prawns, and would blow up like a balloon (rather alarmingly) if she ate any; apparently shellfish allergy is a bit of a known ‘thing’.

There was no great love between patient and doctor, but after the single treatment, we went back to our host’s house and ate grilled prawns, etc, and suffice to say, lady Ff has been blessed without further incident to this day. She is a great fan of shellfish these days, and indeed has veeen ever since that intervention.

The subject of bioresonance is more or less scoffed at by Wikipedia, so much so, they may as well list it under ‘Q’ for quackery.

And yet… but I digress.

As we were, sorry for the aside concerning homeopathy; as you were, carry on.

Edited January 28, 2023 by Freeforester

[chanman]

Any tests performed by anyone should also be done with data logging, at least via EUC world, that way we have something objective to look at.

I'm thinking probably the effect will be too short for EUC world to capture unfortunately, since it only logs at 2Hz, and we're establishing that any effective energy storage is on the order of milliseconds for something of this size. I had the impression that the internally the wheel was a higher rate than this, so this is probably bluetooth / storage bottlenecked? Maybe @Sebacan help us out?

Edited January 28, 2023 by chanman

[The Brahan Seer]

15 minutes ago, Freeforester said:

sorry for the aside concerning homeopathy

Thats ok, What you described wasn't homeopathy anyway, all good.