New Sherman? (Sherman Max)

[supercurio]

11 minutes ago, InfiniteWheelie said:

I took "3600 wh" out of the title since it's just false. It was a rumor when I made the thread but now it's confirmed to be slightly under 3400.

I agree, looking at the cell count is more useful. As was pointed out, these "3600 wh" wheels all have the same amount so which cells are used would be the main difference.

Agree, maybe sites like eWheels could update their table of specifications? (and the whole page essentially)

https://www.ewheels.com/product/new-veteran-sherman-18-100v-3200wh-battery-2500w-motor-1000-deposit/

[The Fat Unicyclist]

The thing is... cells aren't completely drained. But (some) different EUC models drain to different levels (the 18XL for example).

What would be a useful number would be the total amount of available/usable Wh.

Of course, it would still require a level of accuracy from the manufacturers...

[supercurio]

7 minutes ago, The Fat Unicyclist said:

The thing is... cells aren't completely drained. But (some) different EUC models drain to different levels (the 18XL for example).

What would be a useful number would be the total amount of available/usable Wh.

Of course, it would still require a level of accuracy from the manufacturers...

Yeah it would be fair to take a look at the actual capacity of the cells from fully charged to the tiltback voltage.
Someone motivated could make a table including each model "real capacity" 😁

[fbhb]

1 hour ago, The Fat Unicyclist said:

Of course, it would still require a level of accuracy from the manufacturers...

That's One Helluva stumbling block you've mentioned right there! The lack of attention to detail, sometimes evident in All departments/areas (not just marketing materials) from pretty much every EUC manufacturer leaves the whole industry some way to go to achieve "accuracy" IMHO!

[The Fat Unicyclist]

4 hours ago, fbhb said:

That's One Helluva stumbling block you've mentioned right there! The lack of attention to detail, sometimes evident in All departments/areas (not just marketing materials) from pretty much every EUC manufacturer leaves the whole industry some way to go to achieve "accuracy" IMHO!

As @supercurio mentioned, if some motivated individual wanted to work it out, it would be useful... Though it would probably mean that I would need to buy every wheel for testing purposes!   

Motor efficiency would also need to be a factor for a true comparison too though.

[fbhb]

4 minutes ago, The Fat Unicyclist said:

Though it would probably mean that I would need to buy every wheel for testing purposes!   

So would Chrissi be on board with that proposal?  🤔

[The Fat Unicyclist]

1 hour ago, fbhb said:

So would Chrissi be on board with that proposal?  🤔

It's a small sacrifice to make for the overall good of the community!

[That Guy]

Ah, ‘cmon people, EUC battery capacity in the specs is not the first marketing lie… :-) Have you heard about the 1” sensor? ;-)

https://youtu.be/UykmTZ5jzOw

[dangasaur]

Wait till you guys hear about horsepower ratings in cars...

Seriously though, I agree that if the pack has it printed right on it then it should be marketed as such.

[JetSerge]

I got a comment regarding the true battery capacity from eWheels support:

Quote

That's a good point, because both Begode & Veteran were rounding up their numbers. The 'true' rating is 848Wh x 4x = 3,392Wh, while the original Vet was 3.5Ah x 3.6V nominal x 240x cells = 3,024Wh, so there's a proportional ~11% increase. 

They also replied the following about the rim:

Quote

According to Linnea, they've made a 3rd revision to the Sherman/Max rim, using a tougher alloy & the casting is thicker than before. We have 100x rims arriving in the next week, how well these will hold up in the wild remains to be seen. 

 

Edited January 25, 2022 by JetSerge

[Rollin-on-1]

I was seriously considering an upgrade to either the S20 or the Sherman Max.  With the 126v and now 134v wheels coming out, the 100.8v of the Max is now dated.  Any guesses how long it will take to see a higher voltage product in the Veteran line-up?

[Rawnei]

9 hours ago, Rollin-on-1 said:

I was seriously considering an upgrade to either the S20 or the Sherman Max.  With the 126v and now 134v wheels coming out, the 100.8v of the Max is now dated.  Any guesses how long it will take to see a higher voltage product in the Veteran line-up?

Dated how? If it already fulfills your speed and range requirements what is dated about it? I don't think you should stare yourself blind on specs, the main difference is the suspension.

[RagingGrandpa]

21 hours ago, Rollin-on-1 said:

EUC: KS16x

I was seriously considering an upgrade to either the S20 or the Sherman Max.

16X has been far surpassed now, old small and slow... Upgrade!

And don't waste a riding season waiting for first-batch EUC's to become reliable.

Any 100V wheel will be transformative for you
 

Edited January 26, 2022 by RagingGrandpa

[Tawpie]

15 minutes ago, RagingGrandpa said:

16X has been far surpassed now, old small and slow... Upgrade!

old: check (and proven)
small: check (has its place)
slow: check (definitely go slowly!)

Upgrade: how about "add to the fleet"?

[That Guy]

23 hours ago, Rollin-on-1 said:

I was seriously considering an upgrade to either the S20 or the Sherman Max.

Me too. I wouldn't be worried about Voltage - I honestly think its just a number. There are benefits of higher voltage for sure but they are benefits primarily for designers as they can do "more" with higher voltages. In a mature finalised product that performs to my satisfaction - I won't really know what voltage is there. 

My dilemma between the S20 and Sherman Max is more about suspension. But then there is Abrams which being a bigger wheel compensates lack of suspension to a degree... (And yeah, there will also be V13 soon...)

[RamonatheCat]

On 1/26/2022 at 1:06 PM, That Guy said:

Me too. I wouldn't be worried about Voltage - I honestly think its just a number. There are benefits of higher voltage for sure but they are benefits primarily for designers as they can do "more" with higher voltages. In a mature finalised product that performs to my satisfaction - I won't really know what voltage is there. 

My dilemma between the S20 and Sherman Max is more about suspension. But then there is Abrams which being a bigger wheel compensates lack of suspension to a degree... (And yeah, there will also be V13 soon...)

If veteran makes a sherman-like wheel with suspension I will definitely go with that. Seems like there are a few good suspension wheels and going without it doesn't seem that great. 

[Lenneth_WFXZ]

On the fence between the Commander and Sherman Max

I know Abrams has the cut off issue, worried the same with Sherman. Commander has questionable heating issues. Max has questionable wheel rim.

UGH

[fbhb]

29 minutes ago, Lenneth_WFXZ said:

On the fence between the Commander and Sherman Max

I know Abrams has the cut off issue, worried the same with Sherman. Commander has questionable heating issues. Max has questionable wheel rim.

I personally don't think the Abrams cutout issue will cross over to the Sherman Max. The Abrams is a new wheel design, whereas the Sherman Max is based on an arguably tried and tested formula, barring the wider axle/larger bearings!

Granted, the Sherman rim debacle has been a concern, however I have seen it stated recently by Linnea Lin of Veteran, that the weak rim issue has been addressed (it still remains to be proven in the real world though).

Any new Sherman or Sherman Max will have the "stronger, thicker alloy" used for their rims and this was quoted from an email from Jason of eWheels to one of his customers I believe.

The Commander's overheating issues, may or may not have been resolved. My bet is Not, but depending on your style of riding/riding environment it may not pose problems for you. However, I'm biased towards the Sherman Max being based on a somewhat established formula by now!

Edited February 1, 2022 by fbhb

[Alexutlang]

On 1/20/2022 at 1:12 AM, RamonatheCat said:

Thanks for the info! Would that mean that the commander (3,600wh) would theoretically have more range?

Sherman max tilt back at 75V while commander is 74V I believe. Plus it's lighter than max by almost 4kgs so theoretical it should have more range than VS max 

[RagingGrandpa]

10 hours ago, Lenneth_WFXZ said:

Location: Oklahoma
EUC: OneWheel sadly

On the fence between the Commander and Sherman Max

If this is your first EUC... Sherm is likely more durable to the inevitable new-rider drops and falls. 
(But why not find a ~$1500 used 18" EUC, before spending ~$3500 on an new 18" EUC?)

Otherwise, the choice depends on how you ride:

Seated?
Sherman is far better for mounting a seat.

Steep hilly paved roads?
Sherman is better for high-speed cooling.

Steep offroad?
Commander HT is better for low-speed cooling.

Night riding? 
Sherman headlight is much more powerful.

.02

[Lenneth_WFXZ]

On 2/1/2022 at 10:34 AM, RagingGrandpa said:

If this is your first EUC... Sherm is likely more durable to the inevitable new-rider drops and falls. 
(But why not find a ~$1500 used 18" EUC, before spending ~$3500 on an new 18" EUC?)

Otherwise, the choice depends on how you ride:

Seated?
Sherman is far better for mounting a seat.

Steep hilly paved roads?
Sherman is better for high-speed cooling.

Steep offroad?
Commander HT is better for low-speed cooling.

Night riding? 
Sherman headlight is much more powerful.

.02

About to hit 4k miles on my OneWheel XR as it is my main/only form of transportation.

No desire to get a PEV that's just a little better than that in only the speed range as I already get about 40 miles out of my OW per charge with extended battery so I want more range. Stupid tired of the side way stance for long rides. Speed isn't an extreme concern for me.

Might as well go all out.

My worry about the Sherman is the rim. Roads in my Oklahoma town are absolutely abysmal, if the rim for the Sherman/Max is as bad as its said to be, not a gamble I want to roll on. 

That said, all your other points are the reasons I want the Max in the first place.
 

[Rollin-on-1]

4 hours ago, Lenneth_WFXZ said:

About to hit 4k miles on my OneWheel XR as it is my main/only form of transportation.

No desire to get a PEV that's just a little better than that in only the speed range as I already get about 40 miles out of my OW per charge with extended battery so I want more range. Stupid tired of the side way stance for long rides. Speed isn't an extreme concern for me.

Might as well go all out.

My worry about the Sherman is the rim. Roads in my Oklahoma town are absolutely abysmal, if the rim for the Sherman/Max is as bad as its said to be, not a gamble I want to roll on. 

That said, all your other points are the reasons I want the Max in the first place.
 

Max rim is supposed to be better.  Hopefully we will start to get some real world feedback soon.  

It is going to be very challenging to learn on the Sherman Max due to its weight.  If you can find a used KS14D, 16S, V5, V8, Mten3, or MCM5 you will learn much faster.  You will then be able to transition much easier to the Max.  I ride a 52lb wheel now and I am a little concerned about the weight of the Max which factored into my decision to get something else.

If you buy a loaner wheel first, you can sell it for almost the same amount as you bought it.  Then you will have a nice looking Max for a long time. 

If you can borrow a loaner, even better! 

[Lenneth_WFXZ]

11 hours ago, Rollin-on-1 said:

Max rim is supposed to be better.  Hopefully we will start to get some real world feedback soon.  

It is going to be very challenging to learn on the Sherman Max due to its weight.  If you can find a used KS14D, 16S, V5, V8, Mten3, or MCM5 you will learn much faster.  You will then be able to transition much easier to the Max.  I ride a 52lb wheel now and I am a little concerned about the weight of the Max which factored into my decision to get something else.

If you buy a loaner wheel first, you can sell it for almost the same amount as you bought it.  Then you will have a nice looking Max for a long time. 

If you can borrow a loaner, even better! 

I'll believe it when I see it, comments so far look to be the same rim.

I understand the sentiment behind getting another wheel to practice/learn but $$$ and I'm in Oklahoma, ain't a lot even know what an EUC is. 

I'm looking at this similar to getting a motorcycle- get something that will last you. I'm not looking to buy so many wheels, max maybe 2- S20 probably being they other.

$$$ is tight like that. I know it won't be easiest way but going in with that is better than thinking it'll be a walk in the park, maybe i'll update one day how it goes lol

No guts, no glory, all or nothing <3

[InfiniteWheelie]

On 2/1/2022 at 1:22 AM, Lenneth_WFXZ said:

On the fence between the Commander and Sherman Max

I know Abrams has the cut off issue, worried the same with Sherman. Commander has questionable heating issues. Max has questionable wheel rim.

UGH

I just got my first wheel recently too. I was also deciding between the Sherman and Commander. I was originally going to get the Commander, but ended up going with the Sherman and couldn't be happier. It's a reliable and proven wheel, and the metal handles/cage are amazing. The Commander looks like cheap Chinese crap and has overheating issues and a loud fan. I would definitely recommend you go with the Sherman, especially with the new "Max" coming out.

Also, don't worry about learning on a big wheel. It was tricky of course, but just give yourself a week or two and you'll be up and going. I highly recommend getting some non stock pads though. The stock pads didn't stick on properly and were too shallow anyway, Once I got some good pads on (I got Grizzla pads) I could suddenly ride the thing and stop, whereas before it seemed almost impossible.

Edited February 5, 2022 by InfiniteWheelie

[Lenneth_WFXZ]

1 hour ago, InfiniteWheelie said:

I just got my first wheel recently too. I was also deciding between the Sherman and Commander. I was originally going to get the Commander, but ended up going with the Sherman and couldn't be happier. It's a reliable and proven wheel, and the metal handles/cage are amazing. The Commander looks like cheap Chinese crap and has overheating issues and a loud fan. I would definitely recommend you go with the Sherman, especially with the new "Max" coming out.

Also, don't worry about learning on a big wheel. It was tricky of course, but just give yourself a week or two and you'll be up and going. I highly recommend getting some non stock pads though. The stock pads didn't stick on properly and were too shallow anyway, Once I got some good pads on (I got Grizzla pads) I could suddenly ride the thing and stop, whereas before it seemed almost impossible.

I'll have to see if ewheels will move my preorder from the commander to the Max- no lie, im pretty happy with the idea of knocking 1.1k right now off my order before it the rest needs to pay off.

I have pads, upgraded dear, and pedals ready to press order once the EUC is shipped my way XD