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New Sherman? (Sherman Max)


InfiniteWheelie

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5 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Could you make some photos of the wheel? Just how it generally looks? Or do you know of any photos? Wondering what has changed. Is it a new shell, or did they somehow get the batteries in the old one?

@meepmeepmayer did you see this short video I posted a couple of days ago? 

There are some brief glimpses of the changes involved!

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Looking at the specifications on the battery pack it's not 3600 wh, but actually 3400 wh. From what I've heard the original Sherman capacity is also overstated at 3200 wh, but I forget by how much.

Also, I may be interested in buying these new panels for my original Sherman. I modified it by wrapping the batteries with insulation for winter riding. Even after removing the foam I was only barely able to get the packs and panels back in place, but it's squishing the batteries. It seems they made more space by removing the ribs. These panels seem like they may be perfect for my Sherman to relieve some pressure on the packs. Does anyone know if they're a direct swap?

Edited by InfiniteWheelie
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  • InfiniteWheelie changed the title to New 3600 wh Sherman? (Sherman Max)
14 hours ago, Rollin-on-1 said:

Is the added weight noticeable when you are riding it?  Tell us about the ride feel with the higher torque.

The added weight is negligible because of the readily available torque. Accelaration is powerful but smooth. 

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13 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Could you make some photos of the wheel? Just how it generally looks? Or do you know of any photos? Wondering what has changed. Is it a new shell, or did they somehow get the batteries in the old one?

Sorry I don't know how to post pictures here. You can check my Instagram account - https://www.instagram.com/ot_on_wheel/p/CYcMgLlvhoX/?utm_medium=copy_link

Edited by Alexutlang
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9 minutes ago, Alexutlang said:

Sherman max battery is 3400wh

If it's a 21700 cell, I think 19.6Ah is definitely 4P.

1700wh per side is almost certainly rounded to a convenient multiple of 100... perhaps it's the 48X cell and rounded up from 1659wh (4.8A*3.6V*24S*4P); or using 'EUC formula' (Vnom = 3.7V), down from 1705wh...

Anyhow, 21700 24s8p is the Monster Pro and Commander configuration, so I'd treat the battery the same as those other wheels.

Shame they didn't indicate the cell model on the label, makes it almost impossible for an owner to know what they have.

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19 minutes ago, RagingGrandpa said:

1700wh per side is almost certainly rounded to a convenient multiple of 100... perhaps it's the 48X cell and rounded up from 1659wh (4.8A*3.6V*24S*4P); or using 'EUC formula' (Vnom = 3.7V), down from 1705wh...

Gotway always used 3.7v, so I would guess LK is likely the same. Either way, thats pretty far short of the advertised 3600Wh. So with the old Sherman at 3106Wh, 3410Wh isn't looking like the nice big upgrade I thought it would be :( For an extra 304Wh I think I'll pass given the vast price increase.

As you say, it would be really nice to know what actual cells they are using...

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@Alexutlang, thanks for the photos and vids! 

Can you tell more about your experience with the Max? How does it compare with your MSP in terms of acceleration and breaking? How hot does it run compared with the standard Sherman? Is there anything you didn't like? (And I guess there are are no hills to climb in Abu Dhabi, so it would be pointless to ask about hill climbing? :-))

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8 hours ago, BeastMode said:

So basically we will get even heavier wheel with same shitty rim ? 

no thanks.

I’d like to get confirmation on the rim as well. Most of the discussions on the rims are just straight up negative but changing the tires and psi seem to have an impact as well. Moto tire sidewall integrity can either bend or snap the rim like a potato chip on impact. Stock tire might be optimal at this point, but I’d like to see if there’s any differences alongside the supposed axle improvements.

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Quote

I’d like to get confirmation on the rim as well.

Same here.  The Sherman Max ticks a lot of boxes for me, but cracking/shattering wheels makes me wary.  If the materials quality is better in the wheel then I'll get this over the EX.N.

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43 minutes ago, RamonatheCat said:

Would that mean that the commander (3,600wh) would theoretically have more range?

No.

Because they're the same-size battery pack.

(We're just splitting hairs about what numbers they should put on the sticker)

On 1/10/2022 at 11:56 AM, RagingGrandpa said:

21700 24s8p is the Monster Pro and Commander configuration, so I'd treat the battery the same as those other wheels.

Edited by RagingGrandpa
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4 hours ago, Planemo said:

I think it's a bit bloody cheeky that the Max is being marketed by everyone as 3600Wh when even the pack sticker itself makes 3400Wh. Where did this magical figure of 3600Wh spawn from? And why is is still being sold as such when it clearly isn't?

To be fair, the first Veteran Sherman had falsified wh, so this isn’t technically any different. I guess whatever looks good on paper is okay in the world of “Chinese”-ium marketing. 

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Virtually all wheels have falsified Wh, thats not my point. My point is that previously, makers used the pack sticker value eg Gotway 1600Wh wheels had 800Wh stickers on each pack, 1800wh had 900Wh stickers on each pack. Those values on both stickers were slightly inflated but no one then took the piss even more and added yet more false Wh out of nowhere when selling the wheels.

I cant understand where the 3600wh came from. Its not even whats on the pack stickers.

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10 hours ago, Planemo said:

falsified Wh

in the olden days, this was a "little white lie"... understood by all to be fake news, likewise ignored with a wink-wink. Just because it's in ink doesn't make it true. And everything on a color glossy is stretching it.

Edited by Tawpie
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Since these are all 21700-cellsize EUC's, maybe it would make things easier if we just counted cells, since it's a physically observable quantity:

MonPro: 192 cells
Commander: 192 cells
SherMax: 192 cells

I wouldn't put it past the marketing people to round-up a cell count number too... but at least we could open the EUC and check it ourselves with a 5minute inspection.

 

Edited by RagingGrandpa
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2 hours ago, That Guy said:

It might come directly from Begode Commander's specs... ;-)

Yep we can trace it to:

MSP / Nikola 100V: 2*900 Wh packs : 1800Wh

Monster Pro & Commander : 4*900 Wh packs: 3600 Wh.

Sherman Max with the same amount / same cells? Same advertised capacity, thanks Gotway!

(BTW, same thing thing for 2700 Wh wheels)

Edited by supercurio
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I get everything you're saying, but people arent getting my point. I will try one last time..

All the wheels you listed are advertised/sold as per what was shown on the pack. Yes we know those figures were slightly exaggerated but...thats what was on the pack so its understandable that dealers were advertising them as such.

The Max shows 1700wh on the pack ie 3400wh per wheel. So the 3600wh was pulled out of nowhere by...?

Why are the dealers still punting them as 3600wh? Its not even whats on the packs!

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I took "3600 wh" out of the title since it's just false. It was a rumor when I made the thread but now it's confirmed to be slightly under 3400.

I agree, looking at the cell count is more useful. As was pointed out, these "3600 wh" wheels all have the same amount so which cells are used would be the main difference.

Edited by InfiniteWheelie
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