Just got V11 and love it - Now wondering what non-suspension wheel feels like?

[Rawnei]

10 hours ago, FinRider said:

For a lot of riders 8% of ”less” top speed is not a big deal bc they never use that speed. I don’t think anyone is defending it as much as they don’t care as they do not use (need) that top speed.

and please do not compare this to the speedo inaccuracy with cars as it is not comparable. We are talking about lack of top speed... so  the comparison should be if your car is adverticed as being able to do 200 km/h bit you can only hit 184 km/h with it... but again, most of us are not allowed to drive that fast on any road so we never use the top speed... so we don’t care. 

I find it really odd that you guys are just "meh who cares" over a 5kmh difference on an advertised 55kmh wheel and even go out on a limb to express how much you don't care about it but hey I guess I'm the odd one over here.

[Rich Sam]

8 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

I find it really odd that you guys are just "meh who cares" over a 5kmh difference on an advertised 55kmh wheel and even go out on a limb to express how much you don't care about it but hey I guess I'm the odd one over here.

It does not bother me, because I assume all companies are lying until I see a reviewer say how fast\long something goes.  I never went into the purchase thinking it went 35 MPH.  If you assume all companies lie then you are hard to disappoint.

[FinRider]

22 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

I find it really odd that you guys are just "meh who cares" over a 5kmh difference on an advertised 55kmh wheel and even go out on a limb to express how much you don't care about it but hey I guess I'm the odd one over here.

Rawnei, I do not think you are the only "odd one out" on this topic. And I did not want to rain on your parade either... but I believe a lot of the EUC riders (myself included) only hit the top speed of their wheels once in a blue moon, which means that the discrepancy between the stated top speed and the actual top speed is not discernible nor do they matter in this case. 

It still remains an issue and it is good that we have these discussions and get the real world facts out in the open so that we as "educated buyers" know what to expect. This will eliminate the nasty surprise that the actual rated top speed is not achievable. although in all honesty, this should not come as a surprise to anyone as we all know by now that all EUC manufacturers exaggerate both speed and mileage ratings on their wheels. Not to mention that there are differences between wheels as well and rider weight / riding style / weather etc will also come into play.

This thread has sidetracked from the OP's original question though so I will end with a note that will bring it a bit back on track.

I started riding with a hard tail, which helped me developed "proper" suspension technique - where you use your legs/knees as suspension. Switching to a suspended EUC has increased my confidence while riding but I have noticed a tendency to ride more stiff legged as I rely on the EUC for suspension. This is really noticable when I switch back to the hard tail after riding the suspended wheel, and it can have disastrous consequences.. just something that riders who have never been on a hard tail need to be aware of if they try out their buddy's new Sherman or something..

[Freestyler]

On 2/24/2021 at 10:59 PM, Mimetic Polyalloy said:

I don't know if it has ever been tried, but to experience (or endure) the feeling of an unsuspended EUC, it should be enough to empty the lower chamber of the V11 and charge the upper (negative) chamber with a little pressure. That way the suspension is off and the V11 should behave like a (pretty heavy) classic EUC. I don't know if this will work well in the long run, but at least you could test it without breaking your wallet. A pleasant side effect for new riders would be that the pedals are much lower, which makes mounting the wheel a lot easier.

Do we know if it is safe to ride the V11 with empty chambers?

I love the V11, but I often hit the speed & power output alarms and I would like something more powerful.

The thing is I'm not sure it's a good idea to let go of the suspension though.

The roads in Greece are terrible and suspension provides a huge safety boost (let alone comfort).

I would like to see what it would feel like without suspension, but I can't do that on another wheel safely without prior experience.

Maybe going with the V11 for a small ride "without suspension" will give me a glimpse.

Edited March 8, 2021 by Freestyler

[alcatraz]

Are suspension wheels ridden with higher tire pressure than regular wheels? Maybe you need to drop the tire pressure too.

[Rawnei]

4 hours ago, FinRider said:

It still remains an issue and it is good that we have these discussions and get the real world facts out in the open so that we as "educated buyers" know what to expect. This will eliminate the nasty surprise that the actual rated top speed is not achievable. although in all honesty, this should not come as a surprise to anyone as we all know by now that all EUC manufacturers exaggerate both speed and mileage ratings on their wheels. Not to mention that there are differences between wheels as well and rider weight / riding style / weather etc will also come into play.

Gotway/Begode do not do this, the top speed of their wheels are pretty accurate (not talking about the free spin speed but that is also accurate in fact).

The thing with 50 is a bit of a magic number after 50kmh wind becomes a much bigger factor, having higher than 50kmh top speed is good however because you can cruise at around 50kmh comfortably and still have a good safety margin, example if your wheel can do 45 and you often push it to that speed an overlean is more likely to happen (remember even just a speedbump can lead to an overlean when you are already at top speed).

I'm no speed demon but for the above reasons for me personally 55-60kmh is a very good limit.

Anyone riding the V11 can attest how easily it is to accelerate it up to the speed limit without even noticing how fast you were going because of the characteristics of the wheel, hitting speed limit on the V11 is in fact a bit scary for me because the alert is too low in volume over the wind and the tiltback is not always so easy to recognize because it comes slowly creeping (I hear this will be improved in next firmware), so for me I always have my EUC world alerts trigger a bit before top speed on the V11 to feel safe on it.

Edited March 8, 2021 by Rawnei

[UniVehje]

4 hours ago, FinRider said:

Rawnei, I do not think you are the only "odd one out" on this topic. And I did not want to rain on your parade either... but I believe a lot of the EUC riders (myself included) only hit the top speed of their wheels once in a blue moon, which means that the discrepancy between the stated top speed and the actual top speed is not discernible nor do they matter in this case. 

I'm one of these also. I have never reached the tiltback on my V11 and would have bought it even if advertised as a 45 km/h wheel. I usually ride off-road, bike paths or long distance. Speed is not that important as long as it's at least 40 km/h. I just don't care about this issue and it changes a bit with tire size also. But I do understand the point others are making. I still wouldn't jump into conclusions about inflation being intentional. More likely it's just sloppy coding. 

4 hours ago, FinRider said:

I started riding with a hard tail, which helped me developed "proper" suspension technique - where you use your legs/knees as suspension. Switching to a suspended EUC has increased my confidence while riding but I have noticed a tendency to ride more stiff legged as I rely on the EUC for suspension. This is really noticable when I switch back to the hard tail after riding the suspended wheel, and it can have disastrous consequences.. just something that riders who have never been on a hard tail need to be aware of if they try out their buddy's new Sherman or something..

On the topic, I agree with this also. Suspension allows more relaxed riding and I also forget to keep knees bent often. Non-suspension wheels feel the same on smooth roads. On bad roads or going over curbs they just feel less sophisticated compared to suspension wheels. 

[enaon]

On 3/8/2021 at 9:55 AM, Freestyler said:

I love the V11, but I often hit the speed & power output alarms and I would like something more powerful.

allready?

I think better not drive it with empty chambers, but you could try putting a lot of pressure in the top chamber I guess and leave the bottom ones almost empty. 

If you move to gotway/veteran for more power/top speed, you will loose something, they don't ever report amp on battery level, their bms's are a bit raw, you will have little insight after a failure.

Edited March 11, 2021 by enaon

[Rich Sam]

Bottoming out shocks is not a good idea, can damage.  With that said, as a heavy dooood.  I have bottomed out many of MTB shocks and no damage had been done.  Not intentionally mind you.

[enaon]

1 hour ago, Rich Sam said:

Bottoming out shocks is not a good idea, can damage.  With that said, as a heavy dooood.  I have bottomed out many of MTB shocks and no damage had been done.  Not intentionally mind you.

yes you are right, it should not hit the bottom, that is why maybe inflating the top chamber might help, it will will stay down and not move that way, but again I am not so sure. 

[Freestyler]

2 hours ago, enaon said:

allready?

Yeah, you are right. I'll stay with the v11 till another faster + bigger battery suspension wheel comes out. (I don't trust the begode EX...)

I just ordered a p8 watch though.

Let's make it work with the v11.

Edited March 11, 2021 by Freestyler

[enaon]

1 hour ago, Freestyler said:

Let's make it work with the v11.

Nice

[vd853]

I have over 1k miles on my V8, but I'm guessing for non-suspension wheels. There will be more pain in the ankle if there are many hard bumps. Longer rides will feel tiring faster because of the little bumps. I have catapulted off my V8 from not paying attention to deep trenches and high curbs. I have slipped off uneven snows. Going down curbs and stairs is more painful. Going on cobblestone feels like the wheel is trying to tip me over. 

[gon2fast]

Today someone called out my name as I was riding through the parking lot of my local grocery market. Looking back, like a dummy, I set my wheel off course and straight towards a parking block. I was on the V11 and was able to preload the suspension and bounce/roll over the obstacle. 

Point being, first successful attempt out of 15+, LOL.

The non-suspended wheel would be a bit more consistent in this environment, but that is only because I do not ride the V11 much in favor of my two non-suspended wheels.

Does that address the core question... sort of - suspended wheels are new and some stabilization with the product is required. Non-suspended wheels are more predictable/consistent, but less comfortable/safe. 

IMHO...

[mrelwood]

On 3/11/2021 at 10:23 PM, Rich Sam said:

Bottoming out shocks is not a good idea, can damage.  With that said, as a heavy dooood.  I have bottomed out many of MTB shocks and no damage had been done.  Not intentionally mind you.

No, bottoming out the V11 suspension does not do any harm. Confirmed by Inmotion themselves as well.

 There is a metal stopper inside the pedal bracket covered with a rubber bumper that stops the suspension travel at both ends. So the shock itself isn’t allowed to reach either end of it’s functional travel no matter if you bottom out or top out the suspension. Of course the rubber is only designed to take hits every now and then, so it might wear out if a heavy rider rides without any pressure for thousands of km, but I wouldn’t be at all concerned if one wants to try it “the hard way” for a few hundred km.

[Rich Sam]

Just now, mrelwood said:

No, bottoming out the V11 suspension does not do any harm. Confirmed by Inmotion themselves as well.

 There is a metal stopper inside the pedal bracket covered with a rubber bumper that stops the suspension travel at both ends. So the shock itself isn’t allowed to reach either end of it’s functional travel no matter if you bottom out or top out the suspension. Of course the rubber is only designed to take hits every now and then, so it might wear out if a heavy rider rides without any pressure for thousands of km, but I wouldn’t be at all concerned if one wants to try it “the hard way” for a few hundred km.

That is GREAT to hear!  Makes me want to experiment with some really low pressures now for C-L-O-U-D comfort.

[Paulo Mesquita]

17 hours ago, gon2fast said:

Today someone called out my name as I was riding through the parking lot of my local grocery market. Looking back, like a dummy, I set my wheel off course and straight towards a parking block. I was on the V11 and was able to preload the suspension and bounce/roll over the obstacle. 

Point being, first successful attempt out of 15+, LOL.

The non-suspended wheel would be a bit more consistent in this environment, but that is only because I do not ride the V11 much in favor of my two non-suspended wheels.

Does that address the core question... sort of - suspended wheels are new and some stabilization with the product is required. Non-suspended wheels are more predictable/consistent, but less comfortable/safe. 

IMHO...

I've just started with EUC riding on Jan 28 and now have a KS 16X and a V11. I just did the last two rides with the V11 and I totally agree with you. However there is something to be said about the smoothness of the V11. For example, when doing tight 8's the V11 rides real smooth and quite controllable. And I was quite worried, witrh only 34 rides, when I did my debut two days ago with this 18".

On the other hand, when facing a strong frontal wind (my area has that) the V11 (or maybe any other 18") seems to dance  - not wobble - mainly while riding on upward roads.

[baobui]

29 minutes ago, Paulo Mesquita said:

I've just started with EUC riding on Jan 28 and now have a KS 16X and a V11. I just did the last two rides with the V11 and I totally agree with you. However there is something to be said about the smoothness of the V11. For example, when doing tight 8's the V11 rides real smooth and quite controllable. And I was quite worried, witrh only 34 rides, when I did my debut two days ago with this 18".

On the other hand, when facing a strong frontal wind (my area has that) the V11 (or maybe any other 18") seems to dance  - not wobble - mainly while riding on upward roads.

Very interesting Paulo, I have a V11 as my first wheel and am considering a smaller second wheel. How do you feel about owning both of these? Are they different enough to justify the cost of having two? Do you have a situation where you prefer one over the other? Thanks!

[Paulo Mesquita]

2 minutes ago, baobui said:

Very interesting Paulo, I have a V11 as my first wheel and am considering a smaller second wheel. How do you feel about owning both of these? Are they different enough to justify the cost of having two? Do you have a situation where you prefer one over the other? Thanks!

Believe me my friend...the KS16X rocks!!! I was going about other 16" wheels and I was even a bit afraid of its 18cm pedal height...but it is a sturdy and very reliable beast.  Just to have an idea of it's quality, it costs only less €200 in Europe than, the most familiar 18" wheel: KS 18s, Inmotion V11, KS18L, KS 18XL...etc, 

I was going for the Gotway Tesla V3, and when the great people(Sandra) at MyEWheel said that Gotway was still testing motor and motherboard...That was enough form me. I dished out an extra €300 and went for the 16X. And great decision it was. Torque, stability, multi functioning great with the EUCW app (the KS app is crap), response, maneuverability of the 3" tire, great sound, decent front light (with several options) and rear lights...the entire package is excellent value for money!!!

I hope I don't offend anyone but I saw a KS 18L (which I know is a great wheel)...and it looked fragile next to the KS 16X.

@baobui you can't go wrong. The 16X is probably Kingsong's greatest balanced wheel.

...just my $0.2...

[baobui]

2 minutes ago, Paulo Mesquita said:

Believe me my friend...the KS16X rocks!!! I was going about other 16" wheels and I was even a bit afraid of its 18cm pedal height...but it is a sturdy and very reliable beast.  Just to have an idea of it's quality, it costs only less €200 in Europe than, the most familiar 18" wheel: KS 18s, Inmotion V11, KS18L, KS 18XL...etc, 

I was going for the Gotway Tesla V3, and when the great people(Sandra) at MyEWheel said that Gotway was still testing motor and motherboard...That was enough form me. I dished out an extra €300 and went for the 16X. And great decision it was. Torque, stability, multi functioning great with the EUCW app (the KS app is crap), response, maneuverability of the 3" tire, great sound, decent front light (with several options) and rear lights...the entire package is excellent value for money!!!

I hope I don't offend anyone but I saw a KS 18L (which I know is a great wheel)...and it looked fragile next to the KS 16X.

@baobui you can't go wrong. The 16X is probably Kingsong's greatest balanced wheel.

...just my $0.2...

That's great Paulo, glad you like it. So will you keep the V11 or sell it? If keeping it, then why? I really want to know why have both wheels? The answer will determine if I get a second wheel or not. Thanks for your reply.

[Paulo Mesquita]

7 minutes ago, baobui said:

That's great Paulo, glad you like it. So will you keep the V11 or sell it? If keeping it, then why? I really want to know why have both wheels? The answer will determine if I get a second wheel or not. Thanks for your reply.

No...I'm keeping both. I started with the KS 16X on Jan 28 and I started with the V11 2 days ago. I'm going to alternate between the two so that I can diversify as much as possible my ol' 61 year bones & muscles' learning of this wonderful hobby/sport...

Some of the wise ones here actually gave that advice: have 2 wheels, one 16" and one 18". I've got 2 of the best!!!

[Unventor]

8 hours ago, Paulo Mesquita said:

On the other hand, when facing a strong frontal wind (my area has that) the V11 (or maybe any other 18") seems to dance  - not wobble - mainly while riding on upward roads.

Winds is a problem in my experience when these 3 things is in play. 

A light wheel is less direction stable, this often mean slimmer tire to on a smaller tim, when we yalk light wheels. 

The taller you are the more winds you seem to pick up. This seems to be connected with high pedals too. 

Consistent winds is easy to some degree to handle. But very syrong gusting winds can be dangerous especially from the sides or from the back. 

So in regards to the V11 side pads that help you lock yourself into the wheel can help. The weight of the V11 is in its favour imo. You stand taller so I sometimes crouch (or tug in) a little or found twisting top body and having a slight asynchronous foot stand can help me to have either less surface towards the wind or a balance compensatiin in my stand. 

I don't like riding in winds about 12m/s and the strungst gusting winds I have ridden in on the V11 is 14m/s with gusts upto 22-25m/s. The head on wind hitting me in guast made me sliw down to 5ish kmh. It was impossible for me to push the wheel to go faster. 

I had to go buy food at a time when I didn't have other means to travel. Now clothing can effect this too as I ride in a goretex mc suit it catch all wind as a sail. 

[ozer90]

On 3/11/2021 at 8:23 PM, Rich Sam said:

Bottoming out shocks is not a good idea, can damage.  With that said, as a heavy dooood.  I have bottomed out many of MTB shocks and no damage had been done.  Not intentionally mind you.

How heavy are we talking? I am 260 with gear. My v11 has no issues with climbing or speed but i feel like the suspension is not dialed in right. What are your PSI #s if you don't mind?

[Finn Bjerke]

I compare V11 with Veteran Sherman:

I love both wheels but Veteran Sherman is not good for my back. It has other advatages: More range, More power. Both wheels have high fun factor.

Range:
V11 35 km or so
Sherman 120 km or so

 

[mrelwood]

7 hours ago, ozer90 said:

How heavy are we talking? I am 260 with gear. My v11 has no issues with climbing or speed but i feel like the suspension is not dialed in right. What are your PSI #s if you don't mind?

Here’s a guide on how to (fill and) measure that the V11 shock pressures are suitable for your weight:

It’s all about the sag measurement.