Just got V11 and love it - Now wondering what non-suspension wheel feels like?

[baobui]

Wow, all the discussion here is useful. For me, being a new rider, the suspension lets me stay on line even when I see a bump in the road. It is nice to be able to choose to avoid an obstacle or decide to ride over it. The V11 in particular is a nice cruising wheel, but take it for short trips to the store are a bit cumbersome; I am splitting hairs here of course. If money were no object, I would have a small, medium, and large wheel! I.e. mcm5v2, V11, and Sherman.

[Tawpie]

I only have a hard tail and very much like it but my exploits over the past few days are making me look more closely at the suspension wheels. It turns out that riding the 16X on snow trails that boots, dogs, bikes, snowshoes and skis have pockmarked with a bazillion 1-2 inch deep depressions is EXHAUSTING. Yes, the legs absorb enough to maintain control, but man oh man do you work hard. Reduced tire pressure helps a lot, but I can definitely see a place for something like an S18 on this kind of terrain. I imagine centuries old cobblestone streets are very similar.

[Rich Sam]

5 hours ago, Tawpie said:

I only have a hard tail and very much like it but my exploits over the past few days are making me look more closely at the suspension wheels. It turns out that riding the 16X on snow trails that boots, dogs, bikes, snowshoes and skis have pockmarked with a bazillion 1-2 inch deep depressions is EXHAUSTING. Yes, the legs absorb enough to maintain control, but man oh man do you work hard. Reduced tire pressure helps a lot, but I can definitely see a place for something like an S18 on this kind of terrain. I imagine centuries old cobblestone streets are very similar.

Yes come to darkside Tawpie!  suspension just float... we all float down here... hehe

 

[Bad penny wise impression]

Edited March 2, 2021 by Rich Sam
clarity

[Rawnei]

The only things about the V11 that kind of pisses me off is that it has 50kmh top speed despite it's announced 55kmh fancy mode (V11 overreports 8% so if you adjust that 55kmh is actually 50kmh), I like to cruise around 50-52 but have to watch myself and stay below 50 on it.

The second thing is the bearing problems, hardly ridden it because of that, I need to get the 3D printed seal and install that, it's a PITA.

If it wasn't for those two things I would be very happy with it.

[baobui]

@Rawnei I believe you need to do an unlock in the app to get the full 55kmh speed. I have not tried it but here is what I found:

https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/19540-1st-batch-and-2nd-batch-inmotion-v11-electric-unicycle-suspension/

Cheers

[Leoric]

23 hours ago, Rawnei said:

The only things about the V11 that kind of pisses me off is that it has 50kmh top speed despite it's announced 55kmh fancy mode (V11 overreports 8% so if you adjust that 55kmh is actually 50kmh), I like to cruise around 50-52 but have to watch myself and stay below 50 on it.

The second thing is the bearing problems, hardly ridden it because of that, I need to get the 3D printed seal and install that, it's a PITA.

Two questions:

Does 8% really make a difference here?

How is all that related to suspension?

[Denny Paul]

7 hours ago, Leoric said:

Two questions:

Does 8% really make a difference here?

How is all that related to suspension?

8% does make a difference, but shouldn’t when choosing a wheel. All the companies seem to over report from what I can tell. GPS vs DarknessBot speeds for the wheels I have: mcm5v2 (+5%), nikola+ (+6%), v11 (+8%), Ks18xl (+12%).

Over reporting speed has been around for awhile, before suspension wheels, so not really related

[mrelwood]

I don’t check my speed while riding, but checking the max speed after the rides I’ve noticed that my max on the V11 is still almost always 47-48 km/h, just like it was with the 84V MSX.

 Whether that accounts for the actual difference in the reported speeds or the feeling of speed between each wheel, I’m not sure.

[.....]

21 hours ago, Leoric said:

Two questions:

Does 8% really make a difference here?

How is all that related to suspension?

8% makes a BIG difference IF you are attempting to meet certain speeds or are relying on that speed. Does 8% less money on a paycheck make a difference? TO some it doesnt, and to others... HUGE difference. All I see is yet another company lying about specs so that they can claim to deliver something they really can't. The entire argument of 'everyone else does it too", only weakens everyone as a whole and is not valid but detrimental.

Speed and suspension are related, but more in the effect of 'the entire package'. If we ONLY cared about suspension and how it matters, we wouldnt even need motors or batteries, we could marvel at how smooth it all hops in place. Speed, weight, cog, it all matters.

Edited March 4, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[Leoric]

14 hours ago, Denny Paul said:

All the companies seem to over report from what I can tell.

27 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

All I see is yet another company lying about specs so that they can claim to deliver something they really can't. The entire argument of 'everyone else does it too", only weakens everyone as a whole and is not valid but detrimental.

And car manufactures do that too. Because in EU for example speedometers are required by law to report never less than actual speed, but are allowed to report a bit more.

It's actually quite difficult to measure the real tyre radius when vehicle is laden. And speedometer shows wheel rotation rate multiplied by estimated tyre radius.

27 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

8% makes a BIG difference IF you are attempting to meet certain speeds or are relying on that speed. Does 8% less money on a paycheck make a difference?

But which of those cases is "I like to cruise around 50-52"? And how is paycheck related here? I don't understand.

27 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Speed and suspension are related, but more in the effect of 'the entire package'.

So it's fine to generalize here, but invalid in case of vehicle manufacturers?

 

P.S. I say we need to move this discussion to 'Global Conspiracy of Evil Vehicle Manufacturers' topic.

Edited March 4, 2021 by Leoric
to keep on topic

[Tawpie]

11 minutes ago, Leoric said:

I say we need to move this discussion to 'Global Conspiracy of Evil Vehicle Manufacturers' topic.

too short. need to expound a little to add a factoid: 'Global Conspiracy of Evil Vehicle Manufacturers who have my pre-order deposit '

[.....]

54 minutes ago, Leoric said:

And car manufactures do that too. Because in EU for example speedometers are required by law to report never less than actual speed, but are allowed to report a bit more.

It's actually quite difficult to measure the real tyre radius when vehicle is laden. And speedometer shows wheel rotation rate multiplied by estimated tyre radius.

But which of those cases is "I like to cruise around 50-52"? And how is paycheck related here? I don't understand.

So it's fine to generalize here, but invalid in case of vehicle manufacturers?

 

P.S. I say we need to move this discussion to 'Global Conspiracy of Evil Vehicle Manufacturers' topic.

Im one of those odd sorts that sees numbers as FACT. Paycheck was an analogy. 8% means differnt things to different people, depending on where their priorities lie and if they anticipate using ALL resources available. 8% on my sherm is easily some of my headroom and safety at speed.  I guess I should start viewing numbers as more a 'theory' based item than actual math or statistics. We could call them "inaccurate speed reference meters" instead of speedos I guess. Maybe we can call them speedoguessNotaMeter. You are mistaken if you think numbers are inflated because of tolerances and not marketing ploy. I just wish the LAW also viewed specs and numbers as mere theory too. Im not buying the excuse of its too hard to determine speeds. There's validity in your statement. However, why can't a speed be determined in REAL conditions with factory tire size. Its like we keep simply overlooking that the people who SHOULD know specs, aren't publishing anything close to accurate.  Top speed, range, power, weight... all theory I guess.

Focusing on a vehicles suspension only, is a very narrow way to analzye things. If we were to focus only on the quality of the suspension of the euc and compare it to a REAL suspension design, we would be VERY displeased. The reason we grade all this on a sliding scale, is because we've little choice. Either accept it as it is, or dont ride any of them. This acceptance doesnt mean I agree the quality is top notch or even worth what we pay.

It IS a global conspiracy to get into our pockets. Its not just the euc companies, its marketing in general. The euc companies get to dive further into 'theory' as they arent held to standard like road vehicles are. Not to mention, accountability is a little shorter in supply in chinese niche' markets.

Edited March 4, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[Rich Sam]

I'm a realist through and through, I NEVER trust any company that publishes stats like that.  Which is why people like @Marty Backe who do range tests really have value.  I research ALOT before a major purchase, and probably more than I should on smaller purchases.

[mrelwood]

20 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

why can't a speed be determined in REAL conditions with factory tire size

If you really are into numbers as pure  facts, you should state the tire pressure and rider weight as well. Things do get hairy like that very soon.

The announced range figures are a much bigger mess though. Measuring distance is just as fact based as speed, the range of an EUC just has more variables that affect the outcome. Which is why any announced range number is much more off, and much more harmful for spreading actual information than a constant 8% speed deflation.

 I’m not saying that the manufacturers are in it to be precise though. As you say, the difference is too big for that. For me it’s simply way down the list of things the EUC manufacturers should  focus on. In my opinion.

[Tawpie]

Hey! I just thought up the best term for this, what do you think? “Your mileage may vary” ???? Is that good or what!? Strange nobody’s thought of that before me.

[mrelwood]

3 hours ago, Tawpie said:

Hey! I just thought up the best term for this, what do you think? “Your mileage may vary” ???? Is that good or what!? Strange nobody’s thought of that before me.

Wow, that really does describe the issue perfectly! Good job!

”Top speed: 50km/h (your speedage may vary...)”

 Once @Tawpie’s marvelous expression spreads around, maybe we won’t have to explain the announced range figures to newbies nearly as often. Looking so forward to that... 😜

[Leoric]

On 3/4/2021 at 10:06 AM, ShanesPlanet said:

Im one of those odd sorts that sees numbers as FACT. Paycheck was an analogy.

You should look closer. There are numbers that are defined by humans, without any margin of error, and there are numbers that are measured by humans, with some margin of error.

"What if speed of light was 8% lower than actually measured?" is proper analogy. Paycheck is false analogy, targeted to make not logical, but emotional response.

Therefore your argument is invalid at its core.

On 3/4/2021 at 10:06 AM, ShanesPlanet said:

Focusing on a vehicles suspension only, is a very narrow way to analzye things.

Does someone forbid you to create a topic here focused on analyzing not only suspension, but some other things as well? Who is that baddie?

 

On 3/4/2021 at 10:06 AM, ShanesPlanet said:

It IS a global conspiracy to get into our pockets.

Oh no!

Anyway.

[.....]

1 hour ago, Leoric said:

You should look closer. There are numbers that are defined by humans, without any margin of error, and there are numbers that are measured by humans, with some margin of error.

"What if speed of light was 8% lower than actually measured?" is proper analogy. Paycheck is false analogy, targeted to make not logical, but emotional response.

Therefore your argument is invalid at its core.

Does someone forbid you to create a topic here focused on analyzing not only suspension, but some other things as well? Who is that baddie?

 

Oh no!

Anyway.

I am farily certain the overstated speeds and range are well outside the margin for error, IF a company were to conduct multiple tests under standardized conditions. Flat ground 100lb human, no wind, properly inflated tires and 70-90degree ambient temps, 60% humidity. Obviously we will see variations and margins of error. However, it is NOT a simple error, that EVERY speed and range spec is overtated. Its by design.

I fail to see how referencing exact numbers as it relates to dollars, as improper. I used the analogy, as some people may find money more important than others. Thus, the overstating of range and speed may also be more or less important to others. Speed of light is also a good analogy. Some people may find 8% (like Nasa) to be a problem. A trip back home for you to Mars would put you on the list of people effected by the speed of light...

No one forces me to much of anything, I fail to see your point.

Look around, marketing IS everywhere and it is tied to greed and profits. If anything is a conspiracy, surely we can agree that marketing is up that list...

You asked two questions and I tried to answer them. Its not surprising that I didnt answer them to your likings, as I do that a lot.

 

 

Edited March 5, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[null]

4 hours ago, mrelwood said:

”Top speed: 50km/h (your speedage may vary...)”

indeed, also "Sherman, 50 mph, 100+ miles" type of wording should really be: "50 mph or 100+ miles".

Edited March 5, 2021 by null

[Rawnei]

On 3/2/2021 at 5:19 PM, baobui said:

@Rawnei I believe you need to do an unlock in the app to get the full 55kmh speed. I have not tried it but here is what I found:

https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/19540-1st-batch-and-2nd-batch-inmotion-v11-electric-unicycle-suspension/

Cheers

V11 overreports 8% so if you set it to 55kmh you get 50kmh max in reality.. if you leave it at 50kmh you actually get 46kmh.. if you are used to cruising at 52-53 it makes a difference.

On 3/3/2021 at 9:18 AM, Leoric said:

Does 8% really make a difference here?

Yes you lose about 5kmh top speed which is a lot, 50 vs 55kmh is a big difference in experience.

 

Edit: I really wish more people called Inmotion out on this, 8% is a big difference and it's not because of tire size or pressure etc it's a software error that it misreports this much, if they claim 50kmh or 55kmh they should be held to that standard or not advertise it. If you use EUC world you have to apply %8 speed correction to get the right readout.

Edited March 5, 2021 by Rawnei

[Leoric]

6 hours ago, Rawnei said:

Yes you lose about 5kmh top speed which is a lot, 50 vs 55kmh is a big difference in experience.

 

Edit: I really wish more people called Inmotion out on this, 8% is a big difference

well maybe more people aren't calling inmotion on it because they think that it is not a big difference at all?

[Leoric]

 

11 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

You asked two questions and I tried to answer them. Its not surprising that I didnt answer them to your likings

It's not about my likings, it's about invalid arguments not really giving answers.

And you've missed one:

On 3/4/2021 at 8:53 AM, ShanesPlanet said:

8% makes a BIG difference IF you are attempting to meet certain speeds or are relying on that speed.

Which of those cases is "I like to cruise around 50-52"? But don't bother, okay?

 

11 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

I am farily certain the overstated speeds and range are well outside the margin for error

And I'm fairly certain that they are not. Case closed, I think. Back to suspension it is!

Edited March 5, 2021 by Leoric
removed over-quoting

[.....]

1 hour ago, Leoric said:

And I'm fairly certain that they are not. Case closed, I think. Back to suspension it is!

The topic is actualy what NON-suspension wheels feel like. Back to 'non-suspension' it is.....

[Rawnei]

On 3/5/2021 at 8:59 PM, Leoric said:

well maybe more people aren't calling inmotion on it because they think that it is not a big difference at all?

Why are you defending it?

[FinRider]

1 hour ago, Rawnei said:

Why are you defending it?

For a lot of riders 8% of ”less” top speed is not a big deal bc they never use that speed. I don’t think anyone is defending it as much as they don’t care as they do not use (need) that top speed.

and please do not compare this to the speedo inaccuracy with cars as it is not comparable. We are talking about lack of top speed... so  the comparison should be if your car is adverticed as being able to do 200 km/h bit you can only hit 184 km/h with it... but again, most of us are not allowed to drive that fast on any road so we never use the top speed... so we don’t care.