Just got V11 and love it - Now wondering what non-suspension wheel feels like?

[baobui]

Hey guys, I'm new to to the forum. I recently bought a V11 from another member here. It is my first wheel and I really like riding it, although it did take me a couple days to learn. I owned an electric skateboard and scooter before, and this by far is the most fun and versatile.

The topic I'd like to discuss is what are non-suspension wheels like? I can imagine, but I'd like to hear from riders here that have experience on both. Do I "need" a non-suspension wheel too? Not that I have the money for another wheel, but I want to understand more of the dynamics. So far the V11 is the perfect wheel for me as far as I can tell. I mainly ride in empty parking lots and bike paths, ride alongs with bikes, etc. Cheers!

[.....]

If you're happy with your v11, you don't NEED another wheel, unless you need more range/speed/power or more portability. Even so, you'll want another one, no matter how many you have. The difference bewtween suspension and non, is a little more slight than people would like to believe. I personally think wallets have a little to do with it.

[Scottie888]

This is surprising but interesting query nonetheless. I heard someone (choochtech I think) say to be careful riding a normal (NS) wheel  if one started on suspension & IMHO, that's true.

To my experience, there's no difference or very little if one rides on smooth pavement/tarmac. Where the V11 would gloss over (or at least ameliorate), a NS wheel will begin to let you feel every little ruts, bumps, potties even if they're on the smaller scale. Jumps off/on curbs will provide an impact force to your knees & maybe back as well. Ofcos, differences in rider weight & size of wheel will have different effects.

I've not ridden a V11 but on my S18, I can take jumps off curbs & stairs that will make my knees cringe on the Tesla or MCM5. That said, there's also a difference in tires sizes on them all so its not exactly a fair comparo. Regardless, I think you get where I'm coming from

To bad your V11 doesn't have a shock lockout to have both. 

[Mimetic Polyalloy]

The original question makes me smile a bit. For years, users racked their brains about what it would be like to ride a suspended wheel. It was said that it was too expensive, too heavy and, moreover, it had always been that way. With the appearance of new users - fortunately - the question is turned upside down. In any case, it is a valid objection I think.

I don't know if it has ever been tried, but to experience (or endure) the feeling of an unsuspended EUC, it should be enough to empty the lower chamber of the V11 and charge the upper (negative) chamber with a little pressure. That way the suspension is off and the V11 should behave like a (pretty heavy) classic EUC. I don't know if this will work well in the long run, but at least you could test it without breaking your wallet. A pleasant side effect for new riders would be that the pedals are much lower, which makes mounting the wheel a lot easier.

Edited February 24, 2021 by Mimetic Polyalloy

[null]

You'll be tempted with other wheels soon enough, no need to hurry it.
If anything a different tyre size will probably give you more difference in the ride feeling than suspensions or not. 

Edited February 24, 2021 by null

[baobui]

Thanks for the insights. You're right about wanting other wheels. I wouldn't mind owning 2 wheels so that I could ride with a friend, but these things are so hard to learn on, that doesn't really work. I let friends use my electric scooter and we ride together with me on the V11.

Sounds like I am not missing anything with NS wheels. I will ride this one for a while and see what InMotion comes up with next. I'm sure they'll figure out how to tempt me eventually. I had been curious about EUCs for years, it took a suspended wheel to make me want to spend the money to try one. Glad I did!

[baobui]

2 hours ago, Mimetic Polyalloy said:

The original question makes me smile a bit. For years, users racked their brains about what it would be like to ride a suspended wheel. It was said that it was too expensive, too heavy and, moreover, it had always been that way. With the appearance of new users - fortunately - the question is turned upside down. In any case, it is a valid objection I think.

I don't know if it has ever been tried, but to experience (or endure) the feeling of an unsuspended EUC, it should be enough to empty the lower chamber of the V11 and charge the upper (negative) chamber with a little pressure. That way the suspension is off and the V11 should behave like a (pretty heavy) classic EUC. I don't know if this will work well in the long run, but at least you could test it without breaking your wallet. A pleasant side effect for new riders would be that the pedals are much lower, which makes mounting the wheel a lot easier.

This is a clever hack to find out what it feels like. The V11 is heavy. I bet NS wheels feel light.

[.....]

suspension wheels feel 'floaty' in compare to their 'hard tail' counterparts.  For the few moments I rode a suspension wheel, I did feel a slight disconnect with the pavement. However, theres also something magical in being 'part' of the road and experiencing simplicity in its finest. Hell, keeping my tires aired up is enough to worry about. Worrying about a mediocre and unreliable suspension setup just wasnt tickling my fancy. I guess being a tech for so long as a JOB, makes me reluctant to want to bother with it for my hobby.

[Mimetic Polyalloy]

1 hour ago, baobui said:

This is a clever hack to find out what it feels like. The V11 is heavy. I bet NS wheels feel light.

Yes and no I suppose. With increasing battery packs weight goes up at any type of wheel during the last years though suspension adds an extra ballpark number about 20%. Nowadays anything below 1000 Wh is considered as  totally unsafe for any type of use as common sense . On the downside you have to accept that any wheel meeting those specs goes towards the heavy side more and more.

In the good ol´ days (TM) we were riding 16" Ninebots with 340 Wh at only 13,8 kg / 30 lbs. but were thrown off at the lightest longer lasting incline instead . But I fully agree to comments above, a NS wheel could give you very demanding insights. Maybe someday it´s worth a look towards a Mten3?

Edited February 25, 2021 by Mimetic Polyalloy

[.....]

Did someone say Mten? You want a wheel that feels almost like you arent on a wheel... thats the one.

 

Edited February 25, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[Mimetic Polyalloy]

I've already been convinced. I bridged the whole winter break riding my mten3 in the basement - that's been possible indeed

[Scottie888]

1 minute ago, Mimetic Polyalloy said:

I've already been convinced. I bridged the whole winter break riding my mten3 in the basement - that's been possible indeed

Thats the beauty of the Mten3. One can literally ride it anywhere. Fun as heck & I would keep mine if its only more forgiving & has a bit more range. But man, I've been bounced off the darn thing so many times my knees shudder & forces me to slow the heck down for every little bump.

The MCM5v2 has taken over its duties. So its not as nimble but it accelerates so well & climbs inclines with so much ease that it seems like it takes no effort at all. Plus the range & comfort is just about perfect for its size & weight. & You likely can also ride it in the basement 😁

[alcatraz]

If the suspension starts to leak you will know how it feels. 

[Gasmantle]

I've only

20 minutes ago, Scottie888 said:

Thats the beauty of the Mten3. One can literally ride it anywhere. Fun as heck & I would keep mine if its only more forgiving & has a bit more range. But man, I've been bounced off the darn thing so many times my knees shudder & forces me to slow the heck down for every little bump.

The MCM5v2 has taken over its duties. So its not as nimble but it accelerates so well & climbs inclines with so much ease that it seems like it takes no effort at all. Plus the range & comfort is just about perfect for its size & weight. & You likely can also ride it in the basement 😁

I've only had my Mten for 1 day and it's only got 9 miles on it so far but I can agree it's amazing fun wheel.

I bought mine mainly to put in a rucksack when travelling by train so I have something small and agile to use when going into the city (I've even ordered a new rucksack just for the wheel).

What I really do love about it is how easy it is to learn backwards riding and penduluming - I've been able to ride backward for short distances for a while on my KS16s but couldn't pendulum it. After 30 mins on the Mten3 it's job done 

 

[Scottie888]

10 minutes ago, Gasmantle said:

I've only

I've only had my Mten for 1 day and it's only got 9 miles on it so far but I can agree it's amazing fun wheel.

I bought mine mainly to put in a rucksack when travelling by train so I have something small and agile to use when going into the city (I've even ordered a new rucksack just for the wheel).

What I really do love about it is how easy it is to learn backwards riding and penduluming - I've been able to ride backward for short distances for a while on my KS16s but couldn't pendulum it. After 30 mins on the Mten3 it's job done 

 

Absolutely the Mten3 is the best electric last mile commuter rideable ever invented. For its purpose, there's nothing better. Have fun & be careful (hint: always keep your knees bent & listen to the beeps) 

[Gasmantle]

Just now, Scottie888 said:

Absolutely the Mten3 is the best electric last mile commuter rideable ever invented. For its purpose, there's nothing better. Have fun & be careful (hint: always keep your knees bent & listen to the beeps) 

Yea it's a great little wheel, what other form of transport can you get that fits in a 25L backpack yet can travel at 20+mph and get 15 miles on a charge.

It's the nearest thing you'll get to having your own magic carpet. 

[Rawnei]

If you ride a non-suspenion wheel just be a bit mindful, keep your knees at all times, potholes or bumps wont feel comfortable or fun like it does with suspension so will most likely avoid or be careful with those so you don't lose control coming from suspension. The difference is quite big in that regard.

[Finn Bjerke]

Suspension wheels ll put less pressure on your feet, knees and back(bone) Youll be able to ride in a more relaxed way since small potholes, roots and other obstacles will not throw you off the wheel. Suspension wheels is progress in my book. 

Still: The Mten3 is a loads of fun.

[.....]

38 minutes ago, Finn Bjerke said:

Suspension wheels ll put less pressure on your feet, knees and back(bone) Youll be able to ride in a more relaxed way since small potholes, roots and other obstacles will not throw you off the wheel. Suspension wheels is progress in my book. 

Still: The Mten3 is a loads of fun.

Less impact. The pressure from weight would remain for the most part, wouldnt it? I'd imagine the comfort on irregular surfaces is improved for sure. Just nitpickin' tho. And yup, it IS fun!

For all the first wheel owners who have a suspension wheel, don't get complacent, you still would be best to keep knees bent/ready. Too smooth a ride could induce poor habits.

Edited February 25, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[Scottie888]

8 hours ago, Rawnei said:

If you ride a non-suspenion wheel just be a bit mindful, keep your knees at all times, potholes or bumps wont feel comfortable or fun like it does with suspension so will most likely avoid or be careful with those so you don't lose control coming from suspension. The difference is quite big in that regard.

Absolutely good advise but triply so for the Mten3. With the lil wheel that could, its not just the non suspension but more so the lil 10x3" tire. What the bigger tires might gloss over, the 10" tires will allow the lucky rider to feel it & if one isn't prepared, it can easily throw the rider out & off.

Last that happened, the Mten3 hit a lil raised clump of frozen ice hidden by a layer of snow that would've been handled by any other larger wheel. However on that particular incident, I got thrown off going 10mph & my right knee hit something (likely another clump of ice). My fault I wasn't wearing much knee gear as I was just going to the store. That's when I decided to go for a MCM5v2 for those duties.

The Mten3's a super fun wheel & at 10kgs, not a handful to stash anywhere either. I wanted to keep it forever but I decided I don't wanna live with that particular idiosyncrasy (or perhaps idiosyncrazy might spell it better). IME the Mten3 is one of those wheels that needs the riders attention 110% for the road conditions.

 

Edited February 25, 2021 by Scottie888

[Leoric]

A wheel without suspension feels exactly like the wheel with suspension but without suspension. Do you need it? No. Do you want it? Yes.

[Finn Bjerke]

I respectfully disagree: We need safety and faster riding in one package. 

A wheel without suspension feels freer than the wheel with suspension but without back aches and compression of knee/hips ancle joints. Do you need it? Yes its safer if the road is bad (In life roads are bad some times, never marry... I digress) ) . Do you want it? Yes if you have tried it you want suspension on all your wheels (Quoting Mr Kuji Rolls here) . 

Dear Leaperkim show us how its done: The much beloved and respected tyre eating Veteran Sherman  is a fastmoving tank what else have you got up your sleeve you wonderfull people.
(Comment: wotIdonthavethattyreproblemsoscrewyoubeforeIgetaggressiveandshoutpissoff)   A midranged suspension wheel with no silly errors would kill your competitors abnd make all of us smile. Its very demanding tech you can do it. 

the pix is a joke incasesomeangrymachodontgetit

[Rich Sam]

This is a touchy thing, and depending on who you ask the answers will range greatly like you see in this thread.  A lot of veteran EUC riders feel that suspension was something nobody really asked for, and they feel it is totally unnecessary.  With proper riding technique, your legs are your suspension. 

In a nutshell suspension allows you to relax and ride more straight legged without getting bucked off with a surprise bump.  My personal opinion from a chill rider is I love the ability to ride more relaxed and just chill and not always have my legs bent in the ready position.  I'm old!

I love my v11 and it really is what inspired me to get into EUC riding.  For me the suspension is HUGE and it allows me to concentrate less on the road and just enjoy the ride.

 

 

 

 

[Leoric]

21 hours ago, Finn Bjerke said:

A wheel without suspension feels freer than the wheel with suspension but without back aches and compression of knee/hips ancle joints. Do you need it? Yes its safer if the road is bad

If the road is bad, feeling more free is actually increases the danger.

Once I have rode about three to five km on a road paved with concrete blocks having quite a steep steps between them. On a wheel without suspension. Did I liked that? Hell no. Would it be much better to ride there on suspension? Hell yes! But do I need the suspension for that road? No, I don't actually need it, as I was able to ride there.

Suspension is not required, but quite welcome.

[Rawnei]

On 2/27/2021 at 7:25 PM, Rich Sam said:

This is a touchy thing, and depending on who you ask the answers will range greatly like you see in this thread.  A lot of veteran EUC riders feel that suspension was something nobody really asked for, and they feel it is totally unnecessary.  With proper riding technique, your legs are your suspension. 

In a nutshell suspension allows you to relax and ride more straight legged without getting bucked off with a surprise bump.  My personal opinion from a chill rider is I love the ability to ride more relaxed and just chill and not always have my legs bent in the ready position.  I'm old!

I love my v11 and it really is what inspired me to get into EUC riding.  For me the suspension is HUGE and it allows me to concentrate less on the road and just enjoy the ride.

Suspension does a lot more than just allowing you to ride more relaxed imo, you can take terrain in a different way and it allows a bit of a different mindset when facing a bit rougher terrain, but the technology is still a bit early and leads to other compromises hence why it's not so popular (yet).