Fire History

[Asphalt]

4 hours ago, Scottie said:

Mike talks about a couple of recent fires in Stockholm for a few minutes ... starting at 1:10.

 

Thanks for the link. I only added the MSP HT fire to the list, since the other fire did not have a model identification.

[Elwood]

There's a 1 by 24 by 60 ceramic fiber blanket on amazon for like 50 bucks. Think I'll get one to wrap the wheel in storage, and just sit close while charging

 

Edited November 8, 2021 by Elwood

[Paul A]

OFR suggested the good idea of having a leash tied to the wheel when indoors.

Makes it a lot easier and safer to drag it outside if it starts burning.

[RagingGrandpa]

Lost another 100V MSuper in Brazil... doubt we're going to get much more info through the international grapevine, but maybe.

Quote

"It wasn't charging. It just starts burning during the night. The owner said that the battery was 100% charged."

https://www.facebook.com/groups/ElectricUnicycle/posts/4658533740911219/

[Wolverine]

According to the Facebook post in the Group called Electric Unicycle dot org EUC, the Begode/Gotway euc caught fire and lit the KS-16X next to it. The wheel wasn’t charging, but it was stored 100% charged. The fire happened in the night.

[GothamMike]

Another BG

[Namuhan]

On 11/9/2021 at 1:12 PM, Paul A said:

OFR suggested the good idea of having a leash tied to the wheel when indoors.

Makes it a lot easier and safer to drag it outside if it starts burning.

That’s actually a good idea. I have mine stored in a closet close to the outdoor and having a leash tied to the handle could save the house from burning in a catastrophe.

[Paul A]

Euc burned - New Euc

940 views · 11 days ago

 

[Paul A]

國外Begode全新MSP燃燒😱

338 views · 4 days ago

 

[supercurio]

32 minutes ago, Paul A said:

Euc burned - New Euc

940 views · 11 days ago

 

Looks like that was a Begode RS.

[gon2fast]

I love my MSP, but I may start storing it in my least favorite car's trunk and upping my car insurance policy. 

[Hellkitten]

Anyone have any idea on how many of these fires are in wheels that have had   after market alterations done on them? I’ve watched a number of videos saying a lot of the gotways have battery upgrades done to them by independent battery makers. 

[Rawnei]

6 hours ago, Hellkitten said:

Anyone have any idea on how many of these fires are in wheels that have had   after market alterations done on them? I’ve watched a number of videos saying a lot of the gotways have battery upgrades done to them by independent battery makers. 

It's the original batterypacks that are suspected to be at risk, that's why some resellers fit their own batteries instead.

[Paul A]

Ewheels were in the process of implementing a recall to their customers to replace the battery packs of Gotways/Begodes, but their warehouse fire has disrupted that.

Cause of fire yet to be definitively determined or publicly released.

Ewheels had stated that special arrangements had been made in the warehouse to store their Gotway/Begode batteries in large industrial refrigeration units.

Ewheels were making arrangements to have a third party contracted to supply battery packs, that would then be fitted into Gotway/Begode EUCs.

 

Does not appear that Gotway/Begode have announced plans to issue a recall to other customers located everywhere else in the world.

Passing of time may see more batteries self igniting, explosions, fires etc, as they age, deteriorate, subjected to vibrations, etc.

 

The Pinto car was manufactured by Ford, located in the same country as the customers.

In that exposed scandal, Ford had decided it was cheaper to pay compensation for deaths, than to issue a recall and possibly damage sales on a very popular, very profitable car.

 

Gotway/Begode is located in a country overseas to many of its customers.

 

[alcatraz]

If your wheel has M50T cells and is like 1800Wh don't accelerate/brake it crazy hard unless you're lightweight and/or ride in normal temperatures.

See if you can add some padding around the packs so the cell casings aren't rubbing onto the shell too much.

Vibration and heat kills cells. Water instrusion too. 

Waterproof your wheel, add some padding, respect the cells maximum currents and operating temperatures and you should be fine.

If you're a speed demon and want to push your RS/Nikola 1800 to the max then ensure you have better cells like 48X, 50S, 50G. Waterproof the wheel and protect the packs from vibrations.

This is just personal advice based on my own observations.

Edited December 30, 2021 by alcatraz

[AtlasP]

37 minutes ago, alcatraz said:

If your wheel has M50T cells and is like 1800Wh don't accelerate/brake it crazy hard unless you're lightweight and/or ride in normal temperatures.

See if you can add some padding around the packs so the cell casings aren't rubbing onto the shell too much.

Vibration and heat kills cells. Water instrusion too. 

Waterproof your wheel, add some padding, respect the cells maximum currents and operating temperatures and you should be fine.

If you're a speed demon and want to push your RS/Nikola 1800 to the max then ensure you have better cells like 48X, 50S, 50G. Waterproof the wheel and protect the packs from vibrations.

This is just personal advice based on my own observations.

The problem has been clearly identified by eWheels as being specifically with certain Gotway/Begode wheels containing 900Wh packs of M50T cells. It's a bit disingenuous to leave out the brand while calling out just the cells or pack sizes when no other brands have shown any systemic issues with either those cells or pack sizes. See: https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/25541-begode-900wh-battery-recall-options/

[alcatraz]

1 hour ago, AtlasP said:

The problem has been clearly identified by eWheels as being specifically with certain Gotway/Begode wheels containing 900Wh packs of M50T cells. It's a bit disingenuous to leave out the brand while calling out just the cells or pack sizes when no other brands have shown any systemic issues with either those cells or pack sizes. See: https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/25541-begode-900wh-battery-recall-options/

Oh yeah it's definitely Begode/Gotway but any brand really that uses them and the thin heatshrink around them, or overheats the cells (small pack of low current cells in a high performance wheel).

I'm spending most of my time in the Begode forum section. It's a habit to talk about them in general, but as I said. It could happen to other brands too. They usually have more safeguards though.👍 However, performance is always on the rise, and the packs are always trailing the increasing power draw of the wheels. It's tempting to use old and proven cells but it may be a mistake. 

The kingsong s20 is a 4p wheel with 3500w. I can tell you without any doubt that those cells are being absolutely brutalized. They better be high current. Probably Samsung 50S cells that are 30A cells. Ridiculously expensive. Like 3-4 times the price of low current 5000mAh cells.

Edited December 30, 2021 by alcatraz

[Silver]

1 hour ago, alcatraz said:

The kingsong s20 is a 4p wheel with 3500w. I can tell you without any doubt that those cells are being absolutely brutalized.

Not that the motor wattage claims  ever really mean anything but 3500w at 126v 4p is not the same as 100v 4p. I don't think it's necessarily quite as bad as you think

Edited December 30, 2021 by Silver

[Planemo]

3 hours ago, alcatraz said:

Oh yeah it's definitely Begode/Gotway but any brand really that uses them and the thin heatshrink around them, or overheats the cells (small pack of low current cells in a high performance wheel).

A sweeping statement IMO. All we actually know for sure is that the problems affected 900wh GW/Begode packs using LG cells. I still believe that the cell itself is a red herring, and not the power draw per se or in fact that thin skinned shrink wrap was used (given GW had done it for years previously).

My money is still on B grade/counterfeit cells or a change in pack/materials construction.

But peeps are free to believe its all down to LG being the culprit of course.

[alcatraz]

A heavy rider on an 1800Wh Begode RS / MSP / Nikola "having fun" is likely going to exceed the 60A for ~5min that LG cells can take before they overheat. This is under ideal conditions. If ambient temperature is different, then the max amps is going to be less.

A 4y old Tesla battery back can do ~52A.

This is only one aspect. Then there's bms, moisture, charging, vibrations etc.

Begode 1800Wh M50T wheels should probably only be ridden by lightweight riders, to be on the safe side. Add some padding around the packs and do some waterproofing, and you've eliminated a lot of (not all) the risk.

Edited December 30, 2021 by alcatraz

[supercurio]

6 minutes ago, alcatraz said:

A heavy rider on an 1800Wh Begode RS / MSP / Nikola "having fun" is likely going to exceed the 60A for ~5min that LG cells can take before they overheat. This is under ideal conditions. If ambient temperature is different, then the max amps is going to be less.

Do you have data to back that up?
It doesn't match what I've seen so far, from measured current on 16X or estimated current on Sherman.

I think this sustained scenario could be reproduced with constant climbing above 50 or 60 kph speed depending on the incline. On the flat, probably not.

[alcatraz]

Yeah sustaining 60A is unusual. But it's under ideal conditions. Say that some cells are hotter than others and/or the rider is 120kg etc and/or joy riding in hot summers etc. All it takes is one cell to soften its heatshrink and a short can occur.

All I have data on is that the M50T are the lowest peak current cells of all major cells today, and it just so happens that those packs are mostly affected. Even the Tesla 21700 cells appear to be better at peak currents. They stopped being used because of other issues.

Edited December 30, 2021 by alcatraz

[mike_bike_kite]

1 hour ago, alcatraz said:

A heavy rider on an 1800Wh Begode RS / MSP / Nikola "having fun" is likely going to exceed the 60A for ~5min that LG cells can take before they overheat. This is under ideal conditions. If ambient temperature is different, then the max amps is going to be less.

I understand Gotway/Begode Amp figures are reported differently than other makes (they show 3 phase figures which are higher apparently) so it can be difficult to make comparisons. I seem to remember that Marty said he had his current alarm set to 90Amps. It's also odd that none of Marty's wheels have caught fire (AFAIK) when he runs them up mountains in the desert. It also doesn't explain why wheels are catching fire in shipping containers or while stored at night. There might also be more than one reason for the issues.

[alcatraz]

Yeah the heat is only one concern. If the cells were separated by more than just their heatshrink, then even with the heatshrink softening they wouldn't shortcircuit. They would be more resiliant to vibrations which in conjunction with tightly squeezed together cells could cause shortcircuits. (in shipping for examples)

Seeing as gotway wheels with the old panasonic ncr18650ga cells rarely caught fire, and they were built similarly, then it leaves me to suspect either bms or cells, or both.

The packs have become heavier by ca 50% (21700) so the cells on the outside of the pack are experiencing stronger impacts. 

If the packs received impacts before installing them, it could also explain some shipping fires. If we inspect the packs for dents etc, and add padding, it should reduce the risk of spontaneous fires.

Edited December 30, 2021 by alcatraz

[supercurio]

11 minutes ago, alcatraz said:

Yeah sustaining 60A is unusual. But it's under ideal conditions. Say that some cells are hotter than others and/or the rider is 120kg etc and/or joy riding in hot summers etc. All it takes is one cell to soften its heatshrink and a short can occur.

By the way did you mean 60A sustained per cell?
60A sustained for all packs combined is possible, but per cell is not. You'd have at 1/4 of that.

60A per cell would require high current cells to be shorted with a very low resistance. Example:
 

 

This cannot happen while riding. Any mainboard will burn up way before that.

11 minutes ago, alcatraz said:

All I have data on is that the M50T are the lowest peak current cells of all major cells today, and it just so happens that those packs are mostly affected. Even the Tesla 21700 cells appear to be better at peak currents. They stopped being used because of other issues.

Suggested read, @RagingGrandpa's tests.

I agree there's an issue with these, or more specifically the cells Begode has been using in their pack. For unknown reasons some of the cells are not performing as spec and it leads to diverse adverse results.

I think you got your figures mixed up tho on current per cell and overheating: the limits are elsewhere.