Bluetooth problems

[Joker10]

I have had a weird problem with my 18l ever since I got it.  I lose bluetooth connection between the wheel and whatever app I am using to monitor the wheel, it happens after an indiscriminate distance.  When I connect before he ride it seems to stay connected fine, but after I start rolling it will just lose connection at some distance.  The weird thing is that I play music through the speakers all the time and I never get disconnected between the music and the phone.  It didn’t use to  e a concern because The apps all left something to be desired.  But since Seba released EUC world I really want to use it but keep losing connection.  I have tried wheel log, darkness bot, kingsong and euc world and I lose connection between the wheel and the phone, the music never loses connection.  Been through multiple firmware updates.  Anyone have any ideas?   Thanks for any help. 

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

You might want to contact your seller.  My Telsa's BT stopped working just before winter for some reason so I suspect maybe a loose contact to the BT daughter board, or maybe it got fried.  Luckily they are cheap and fairly generic (dunno about the 18L though).  There is a specific way to program them to work IIRC as I don't think they are plug and play.  Also check to see if your device isn't putting the app in some sort of sleep mode when the screen is off?  Maybe double check it is seated well and if there is an antenna that it is routed to avoid interference?

Edited February 7, 2020 by Hunka Hunka Burning Love

[Rehab1]

1 hour ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

My Telsa's BT stopped working just before winter

Your BT module probably went into it’s yearly hibernation. I’m sure when spring arrives it will wake up again. 

[Rehab1]

Like @Hunka Hunka Burning Love stated it’s most likely a loose connection or blown module. Mine can loose on my Mten3 after the numerous dances it performed when dropped.  

[brockj]

I've had the same issue since the beginning with my 18xl. I guess I'll check the BT module next time I open it up...

Edited February 8, 2020 by brockj
Typo

[The Fat Unicyclist]

9 hours ago, Joker10 said:

The weird thing is that I play music through the speakers all the time and I never get disconnected between the music and the phone.

King Song wheels have two separate BT modules - one for music (on a daughter-board) and one for the wheel (on the mother-board).

Do you know which version of the 18L control board you have?

[Seba]

4 hours ago, The Fat Unicyclist said:

King Song wheels have two separate BT modules - one for music (on a daughter-board) and one for the wheel (on the mother-board).

Exactly as you wrote  For Bluetooth Low Energy application connectivity HC-08 module is used, which is independent of Bluetooth Audio connectivity provided by on-board chip (that is also responsible for MP3 playing from connected USB pendrive). This HC-08 module is known to be problematic at times, and I also experienced the same problem like you (and @travsformation experienced it too). I was on a group ride and at some point EUC World started to disconnect. After manual connection connection was lost after some time. As EUC World used by me is always a development version , I first suspected a bug in app due to some recent changes. But no, EUC World worked fine and the problem also happened with other apps - WheelLog and OEM KS app. The problem persisted between power off/on cycles (using button). But after firmware upgrade problem magically disappeared. So I started to suspect that it wasn't a hardware-related problem.

I also noticed that while I experienced connectivity problems, EUC Bluetooth address was 08:08:08:08:08:01 what was different from normal address of my wheel. You can verify your address by trying to scan for BT devices in EUC World. To make scan disconnect wheel by clicking on a wheel left to CSV button. When disconnected, Bluetooth scan buton will be visible - tap it. After EUC will be detected, there will be it's name and address written below.

Personally I suspect that module isn't faulty, but it's misconfigured because of a problem during its initialization by EUC firmware. Sometimes I get "AT" commands sent in Bluetooth data stream from wheel to the app. Normally, it shouldn't appear as they are sent to the module only during initialization. But for some unknown reason (I suspect firmware bug) configuration commands are sent while app connection is already active and module isn't listening to configuration commands. This let me think that sometimes not all configuration commands are received by the module what can make it working partially.

BLE module isn't powered off when we power off the wheel. Actually when we power off the wheel using a button, some circuits are still powered. I suspect that BLE module is one of circuits receiving +3.3V voltage and it's just switched to sleep mode programatically. This is why problem can persist between button power cycles.

I suggest following procedure to hard-reset entire EUC (including BLE module):

1. Disconnect both batteries.
2. Press power button to discharge capacitors.
3. Wait for 15 minutes.
4. Connect one of batteries. It has to be done quickly and firmly to minimize sparking that will occur. Care is needed to avoid burns! Just align connectors and make connection with a firm and quick move.
5. Connect second battery. This time there is no risk of arcing, as mainboard capacitors are charged to battery voltage level.
6. Wheel is now reset.

If this won't help we may suspect faulty mainboard.

NOTE TO KING SONG OWNERS - I've just checked with EUC World database and found that there is a connection between occurence of 08:08:08:08:08:01 BT address and connectivity problems. I've checked several tours while EUC was using this BT address and noticed that users experienced connection lost during ride. But there are also tours that are fine (no connection problems) even if BT addr was 08:08:08:08:08:01. So while this address doesn't always mean that there will be problem with app connnection, it's a sign of misconfigured BLE module. As King Song uses HC-08 module in all of his modern wheels, this problem may exist with KS-14M/S/D, KS-16S/X and KS-18L/XL/LH (and probably with other models too).

Edited February 8, 2020 by Seba

[Seba]

13 hours ago, Joker10 said:

I have had a weird problem with my 18l ever since I got it.

Seems you're affected with issue I described above. So please try resetting your wheel by disconnecting batteries. If it won't help, you can blame motherboard.

[Chriull]

1 hour ago, Seba said:

EUC Bluetooth address was 08:08:08:08:08:01 what was different from normal address

Maybe include a warning in EUC World (?at the HW info page) if this address is used. Or just list the used Blue tooth address there? 

... Since you mentioned you looked the adress up in your database - it's already in the log files in the extras column!...

1 hour ago, Seba said:

I suggest following procedure to hard-reset entire EUC (including BLE module):

I assume there is no software side resetting possible beside updating the firmware?

Would be cool to save one from opening the wheel - but then one has the (?!very little?) chance of bricking ones wheel... Maybe an even a bit bigger chance, since one has an unstable bluetooth connection?

... so this could be (beside some other hickups) one reason of some KS owners struggling with FW updates?

So checking the bluetooth address and this HW reset routine could be especially recommended before an update?

1 hour ago, Seba said:

I've checked several tours while EUC was using this BT address and noticed that users experienced connection lost during ride. But there are also tours that are fine (no connection problems) even if BT addr was 08:08:08:08:08:01

 

1 hour ago, Seba said:

If this won't help we may suspect faulty mainboard.

Once one has the wheel open one can check the bluetooth "antenna" (a short piece of ?blue? wire, just connected on one side). I've seen different versions - curled up as "pig tail", straight,...

Don't which is better - but some antennas where squeezed between the board and the casing, "hidden" under the board, below the fan, ...

So a nice and proper positioning could help?

Or this is the antenna for the music connection and the data connection uses the PCB antenna on the extra module? Or vice versa?

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

40 minutes ago, Chriull said:

Or this is the antenna for the music connection and the data connection uses the PCB antenna on the extra module? Or vice versa?

#1 - I would say this is the HC-08 BLE module for data transfer

#2 - this should be the on board Bluetooth for music.

I have no problems receiving Bluetooth Data, but the range of Bluetooth Music is only 2-3 meters with visual contact. If I stand in between it is only 1-2 meters.

I am therefore also interested in whether I can perhaps pull the antenna spiral apart and lay it straight? 

 

[Seba]

1 hour ago, Chriull said:

Maybe include a warning in EUC World (?at the HW info page) if this address is used. Or just list the used Blue tooth address there? 

... Since you mentioned you looked the adress up in your database - it's already in the log files in the extras column!...

I plan to do so - probably I'll add another field to "EUC Health" and also a pop-up message at the app start. And about BT address - yes, it's logged in CSV and in tours. This info helps me develop app and - as this case shown - to better help users to resolve their problems.

1 hour ago, Chriull said:

I assume there is no software side resetting possible beside updating the firmware?

I don't know any in case of EUC  But there is also possibility that the problem is that HD-08 module is stuck in some undefined mode and would require hardware reset. I dunno.

1 hour ago, Chriull said:

... so this could be (beside some other hickups) one reason of some KS owners struggling with FW updates?

No, it's unrelated. Problems with updates are caused entirely by the KS app itself.

1 hour ago, Chriull said:

So checking the bluetooth address and this HW reset routine could be especially recommended before an update?

Actually firmware update may be a cure for this problems as there is possibility that new FW booting will cause BLE module to be fully reinitialized.

46 minutes ago, buell47 said:

I am therefore also interested in whether I can perhaps pull the antenna spiral apart and lay it straight? 

@buell47, try to reorient this spring so it's axis is vertical, not horizontal.

[Joker10]

Thanks everyone.  I was hoping Seba would see my post.  Thanks for the detail Seba.  I will get it taken apart and disconnect, reset, and reconect the batteries.  I will follow up after the operation with the results.  I am currently out of town so it will be a while before I get back to the wheel so I can do it..

[Joker10]

Thanks Seba! The operation seems to have been a success.  I followed the instructions and it must have reset the Bluetooth address.  I forgot to check the address before and after but I did get a couple of 2 mile ride in this evening to and from the gym.  Stayed connected the whole ride.  And that’s a first.   Ow to determine how to get my tours uploaded.  

[Joker10]

Well bad news.  It didn’t work.  I found that I was still getting frequent disconnects I checked the Bluetooth address and it was 08:08:08:08:08:01. I tried 3 more times to reset the address but can’t get it off of that address.  

[Chriull]

6 hours ago, Joker10 said:

Well bad news.  It didn’t work.  I found that I was still getting frequent disconnects I checked the Bluetooth address and it was 08:08:08:08:08:01. I tried 3 more times to reset the address but can’t get it off of that address.  

I'd assume you let it rest with discharged capacitors long enough?

On 2/8/2020 at 8:54 AM, Seba said:

• Press power button to discharge capacitors.
• Wait for 15 minutes.

PS.: @Joker10 - i moved this topic to the KINGSONG subforum so i can make it sticky, as it seems to be an "general" KS "problem". So it's easier to find for all KS riders...

Edited February 25, 2020 by Chriull

[Joker10]

15 to 20 minutes.  I actually set a timer on my phone to make sure.  Should it have been longer?  I can try leaving it overnight if I need to.  

[Chriull]

12 minutes ago, Joker10 said:

15 to 20 minutes.  I actually set a timer on my phone to make sure.  Should it have been longer?  I can try leaving it overnight if I need to.  

Maybe pushing the button some times until nothing happens anymore should do it - no more voltage and a full restart happens.

As the "bluetooth adress is set" while the initializing at the startup and ?one does not know exactly? why and what happens you maybe just had three times bad luck.

Best leave the wheel open and check until adress changed!

... or you just have a "bad" bluetooth module?

[Seba]

1 hour ago, Chriull said:

... or you just have a "bad" bluetooth module?

I suspect it's the case.

[Joker10]

I did leave it open unplugged batteries pressed the button to drain the caps and waited 15 to 20 minutes.  I am going to send an email to Jason to see if he has any way to reset the bt module address.  

[GothamMike]

I'm having the same problem with my 18L, the  beeping as the BT connects and disconnects is beyond irritating. BT for Music works flawlessly.

[Joker10]

Sorry Mike, mine still does it.  I just don’t use any apps while riding.  Too bad because euc world is great.  

[JohnL]

This is happening to my 18l as well.  Has the above fix of disconnecting batteries worked for anyone?  It would be good to know before opening up the wheel.

Mine seems to do a lot of reconnecting beeps when I slow to a near stop, or stop after a few minutes of riding.  It happened to me twice on my ride home today, (which is about a 10 min ride.)

[EUChristian]

On 2/7/2020 at 12:59 PM, Joker10 said:

I have had a weird problem with my 18l ever since I got it.  I lose bluetooth connection between the wheel and whatever app I am using to monitor the wheel, it happens after an indiscriminate distance.  When I connect before he ride it seems to stay connected fine, but after I start rolling it will just lose connection at some distance.  The weird thing is that I play music through the speakers all the time and I never get disconnected between the music and the phone.  It didn’t use to  e a concern because The apps all left something to be desired.  But since Seba released EUC world I really want to use it but keep losing connection.  I have tried wheel log, darkness bot, kingsong and euc world and I lose connection between the wheel and the phone, the music never loses connection.  Been through multiple firmware updates.  Anyone have any ideas?   Thanks for any help. 

I have the same problem exactly with my KS-16 and have had it since it was brand new. Will not stay connected to APP. 

[Joker10]

Guys, I never had this problem with the 16s.  Mine still doesn’t work so I just ride and watch the battery through the led lights on the side.  Haven’t been riding too much lately since Florida is so damn hot and humid.  Just started using the wheel again for the last couple of weeks.  

[Bill Kolk]

Does any of you by chance have Android 11? If so you might wanna try this