My KS16X Triumphs, Tribulations, and Failures

[Marty Backe]

3 hours ago, UniVehje said:

NICE! These are the kinds of trails I usually seek to ride. I can hear you being slightly out of breath. It's an exercise really. You are very lucky to have these all year round. 

How's the 16X on those trails? Would you rather ride that or your 18XL on that passage? 

There's no doubt that I'd rather ride the 16X here. In general, I'd rather ride the 16X everywhere rather than the 18XL. Just as I'd generally rather ride the Nikola than the MSX. It's the 3-inch wide, beefy tire, that makes these wheels competitors to 18-inch wheels.

[Marty Backe]

Impressive Range Results

I haven't performed my formal range test yet, but today I had my most impressive range results yet.

I took the 16X for Sunday's CicLAvia Los Angeles group ride. I started in Griffith Park, rode ~8-miles before riding to downtown Los Angeles for the street closure ride. All told, when I got back to the truck me and @M22 had ridden 49-miles which included a couple of climbs to the Griffith Observatory. The battery was at 42%, resting. Very impressive. Granted, there was a fair amount of slower riding during the main event, but I still call this very nice mileage.

Ignore the Max Speed - I don't know where that came from. The scale of the plot is hiding a lot of the ~20+ mph riding.

 

 

 

Edited October 7, 2019 by Marty Backe

[stephen]

9 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Impressive Range Results

I haven't performed my formal range test yet, but today I had my most impressive range results yet

We'll that doesn't surprise me at all , I'm in the UK with colder weather  and have completed 2 range tests one at 50miles and 2nd at 40 miles (going fast)I'm at 200lbs without kit on, i live in a pretty hilly area too and like to ride about 20-25mph and a bit more, I'm sure if kept to about 20mph I'd get 50 miles quite easy ( better than my msx)

The last 25% goes down really quick ,, did you notice how the battery handles recharge back to your battery going down steep hills 

Looking forward to your tests with the 16x because i see allot if complaints about this wheel which I've had none and is such a lovely wheel in every respect . It's a blast of a wheel i love it 👍

[Marty Backe]

12 hours ago, stephen said:

We'll that doesn't surprise me at all , I'm in the UK with colder weather  and have completed 2 range tests one at 50miles and 2nd at 40 miles (going fast)I'm at 200lbs without kit on, i live in a pretty hilly area too and like to ride about 20-25mph and a bit more, I'm sure if kept to about 20mph I'd get 50 miles quite easy ( better than my msx)

The last 25% goes down really quick ,, did you notice how the battery handles recharge back to your battery going down steep hills 

Looking forward to your tests with the 16x because i see allot if complaints about this wheel which I've had none and is such a lovely wheel in every respect . It's a blast of a wheel i love it 👍

I've only had minor complaints about the 16X. It's a great wheel. I think maybe some people are too picky or focused on top speed. Buy Gotway if you want to speed. Otherwise this is a great wheel.

I still prefer the Nikola for overall ride quality. But we're arguing  over the top percentile.

Edited October 7, 2019 by Marty Backe

[stephen]

2 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I've only had minor complaints about the 16X. It's a great wheel. I think maybe some people are too picky or focused on top speed. Buy Gotway if you want to speed. Otherwise this is a great wheels.

I still prefer the Nikola for overall ride quality. But we're arguing  over the top percentile.

Yes true i didn't buy this for top speed either but i have found myself easily getting there but i tend to stay away apart from the tests I've done 👍

I might buy the nikola or wait to see any new wheels out next year 🤔

[Marty Backe]

2 minutes ago, stephen said:

Yes true i didn't buy this for top speed either but i have found myself easily getting there but i tend to stay away apart from the tests I've done 👍

I might buy the nikola or wait to see any new wheels out next year 🤔

If you get a Nikola, be sure it's the 100-volt 1845wh version. You won't regret it 

[Marty Backe]

64-miles on my official range test today. The best (by a long shot) of any 1600wh wheel that I've ever ridden

 

[Flying W]

That's amazing! What was your ave speed? 

[Marty Backe]

2 hours ago, Flying W said:

That's amazing! What was your ave speed? 

According to the app the moving average was ~16-mph @60-miles. The last 4-miles included a lot of forced <9-mph riding which brought the average down to ~15.1-mph. Max speed was 23-mph and much of my straight-away riding was 18-20-mph.

[Marty Backe]

 

[RetroThruster]

That's a big reason why I love these things, I had a $15,000 electric Alta Redshift Super Moto motorcycle, I know, no comparison but in the end, it was just a toy just like my 16x, anyways, if I went out on the Alta and rode it the way I wanted to (fast), I'd be walking in about 25 minutes or approx 30 miles, bang for the buck, euc's are just a win win!!

Edited October 13, 2019 by RetroThruster

[Marty Backe]

 

[Marty Backe]

Mileage Test

I've been told that the 16X reports accurate speeds/distances. Historically, most of my wheels have been off by about 10%. E.g., I may travel 10-miles but the wheel will report that I've traveled 11-miles. I'm told that I'm riding at 20-mph but in reality I'm riding at 18-mph

So today I did a quick test on my nearby river trail which has mileage markers every 1/4-mile. As you can see, the 16X is better but it's still off by 5%.

 

 

 

But apparently @Patton250 has a 16X that is right on the money.

[Patton250]

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

Mileage Test

I've been told that the 16X reports accurate speeds/distances. Historically, most of my wheels have been off by about 10%. E.g., I may travel 10-miles but the wheel will report that I've traveled 11-miles. I'm told that I'm riding at 20-mph but in reality I'm riding at 18-mph

So today I did a quick test on my nearby river trail which has mileage markers every 1/4-mile. As you can see, the 16X is better but it's still off by 5%.

 

 

 

But apparently @Patton250 has a 16X that is right on the money.

Nope. I was totally wrong. I thought you saw my post on Facebook? My 16x is off by about 10%. I just got done testing my Nikola Plus and Z10. Both of those are off by less than 5%.

I originally thought my 16 X was spot on because it would tilt back when the app said 31 mph. So the settings are spot on but when comparing it to GPS the speed is definitely off.just like some here have said from the beginning. I apologize  

 

Edited October 14, 2019 by Patton250

[Marty Backe]

21 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

Nope. I was totally wrong. I thought you saw my post on Facebook? My 16x is off by about 10%. I just got done testing my Nikola Plus and Z10. Both of those are off by less than 5%.

I originally thought my 16 X was spot on because it would tilt back when the app said 31 mph. So the settings are spot on but when comparing it to GPS the speed is definitely off.just like some here have said from the beginning. I apologize  

 

I did not notice your Facebook comment. Thanks for the update.

I'm going to do this little test on all my wheels, over time. But I was pleasantly surprised that mine was only off by 5%.

[Patton250]

16 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I did not notice your Facebook comment. Thanks for the update.

I'm going to do this little test on all my wheels, over time. But I was pleasantly surprised that mine was only off by 5%.

It’s interesting how king song can be slow by 10% like that but the tilt backs all work matching. So this wheel really only goes about 27 mph and then tilts back because it thinks it’s going 31. 

[Marty Backe]

5 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

It’s interesting how king song can be slow by 10% like that but the tilt backs all work matching. So this wheel really only goes about 27 mph and then tilts back because it thinks it’s going 31. 

Exactly. It's not really a 31-mph wheel.

It's not just KingSong. Gotway is mostly off by 5 to 10 percent and when everyone reports how fast they're zooming by, most of those people are all using the app speeds.

[Patton250]

25 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Exactly. It's not really a 31-mph wheel.

It's not just KingSong. Gotway is mostly off by 5 to 10 percent and when everyone reports how fast they're zooming by, most of those people are all using the app speeds.

Guilty as charged. 

[UniVehje]

5 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

But I was pleasantly surprised that mine was only off by 5%.

Riding 2 miles in straight line should gather less error compared to gps. Measuring from wheel rotations should be a superior method if done right. GPS on phones cannot measure small curves that come from riding naturally, it takes position once a second and between them it’s a straight line. Of course this is also a matter of philosophy, what do you really want to measure; how far you got or how many rotations it took to get there. 

My 18XL usually shows about 20 % more distance compared to my Phone or watch gps tracking. But when I did my long distance trips riding straight on roads, the difference was only 10 %. And of course I still couldn’t ride perfectly straight. 

Kingsong seems to have either wrong calculations or the difference comes from other factors (tire, pressure, rounding error?). But it’s not as big as people think, 5-10 % probably. Rest comes naturally from different methods  of measuring. 

[Unventor]

5 minutes ago, UniVehje said:

But it’s not as big as people think, 5-10 % probably. Rest comes naturally from different methods  of measuring. 

I agree with all you posted above. The micro distance from carving is impossible to messure with GPS as system is has a tolerance/inaccurate factor build-in. It used to be 100m, I think these days it is 10m if I recall correctly. 

As for my KS18L is was about 10% on rotation distance compared to GPS messure, or 15% on map turn by trun distance. Speed maybe 5% higher on rotation compared to GPS. 

I don’t recall my KS16X stats but I think is was 5-10% higher on rotation distance, speed pretty much bang on. 

Note: the GPS data is from my Samsung Note 8, some phones have very inaccurate GPS data (especially elder budget Samsung phones). 

[Unventor]

5 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

I did not notice your Facebook comment. Thanks for the update.

I'm going to do this little test on all my wheels, over time. But I was pleasantly surprised that mine was only off by 5%.

I think your road test with marks are good way to test but it will not take into account for carving distance. Even if you ride in a straight line, it will only be that straight if you get what I mean. 

I can say that my car is like 4kmh off too. From factory all cars have this slight added inaccurate speed so the driver doesn't get caught for speeding. All my cars have had 4-6 kmh higher speed readings.

Personally a 10% tolerance is okay with me. It isn't that important to me. And I don't ride max speed anyway. 

[Marty Backe]

8 hours ago, Unventor said:

I think your road test with marks are good way to test but it will not take into account for carving distance. Even if you ride in a straight line, it will only be that straight if you get what I mean. 

I can say that my car is like 4kmh off too. From factory all cars have this slight added inaccurate speed so the driver doesn't get caught for speeding. All my cars have had 4-6 kmh higher speed readings.

Personally a 10% tolerance is okay with me. It isn't that important to me. And I don't ride max speed anyway. 

I agree that it's not that important. But I do think everyone should know the inaccuracies of their wheel, particularly if they ever mention their speed or distances in conversations.

[Marty Backe]

8 hours ago, Unventor said:

I think your road test with marks are good way to test but it will not take into account for carving distance. Even if you ride in a straight line, it will only be that straight if you get what I mean. 

I can say that my car is like 4kmh off too. From factory all cars have this slight added inaccurate speed so the driver doesn't get caught for speeding. All my cars have had 4-6 kmh higher speed readings.

Personally a 10% tolerance is okay with me. It isn't that important to me. And I don't ride max speed anyway. 

The difference between GPS and wheel is really pronounced after a 40+ mile ride. So for instance I would never use my wheel distance when doing a range test. And when we do group rides, the distances reported by everyone via GPS is always very close even though we have different phones or GPS devices. So I trust GPS. And if you live in an area (I do) that has differential GPS, I trust the real-time speed measurements too.

[Han Vo]

On 9/23/2019 at 8:54 AM, Marty Backe said:

 

I use speakers in two scenarios:

1. When I'm traveling to a location and I need directions I used Google Maps. She will give me directions through the speakers (turn left in 600-feet, etc.) so I don't have to look at my phone. It works really well.
2. I will listen to music when I'm riding in a remote area (no people) or on a mountain road, etc. that only has me and periodic traffic. I'm not disturbing anyone.

The Nikola has the best speakers yet for this because they are very loud so you can finally hear the music above all the wind noise.

The speakers on the Nikola are to me a necessity for saftey. We are so quiet when riding it can be dangerous especially during the day when the lights don't do much. Bicycles are also quiet but they arent usually rolling at 30mph. I turn on the music loud so people know I'm there sharing the roads. I can turn my music down with my watch when I'm at the light or when riding on the sidewalk.

[wonderlove]

5 hours ago, Han Vo said:

The speakers on the Nikola are to me a necessity for saftey. We are so quiet when riding it can be dangerous especially during the day when the lights don't do much. Bicycles are also quiet but they arent usually rolling at 30mph. I turn on the music loud so people know I'm there sharing the roads. I can turn my music down with my watch when I'm at the light or when riding on the sidewalk.

That is a very nice idea (using music to signal presence), but I'm into black metal, and, well...
Imagine you are walking along the pavement a dark chilly evening. You keep your head down and walk in a brisk pace due to the cold. From far behind you can hear the rising thunder of blast beats catching up, then suddenly a man screams out like he has been kicked in the nethers "THE HEAVENS MUST BURN!" and something flash past you, neon lights rolling like an experience out of "Close encounters of the Third kind", and then the unidentified rolling object zooms into the horizon with the sound of rolling drums and yells of "MORE BLOOD!". It would not go down very well in my neighborhood
 

Jokes beside, do any app support playing short sound bites through the wheel speakers? Sort of "press button on watch, hear ringing clock sound from wheel" kind of thing?