Q: best tiny one/two wheel vehicle for special purpose

[bootstrap]

I need a super-tiny, super-lightweight "vehicle" for a special purpose.  Since I have no past experience with such vehicles, I come here hoping some experts with lots of experience can consider to my specific requirements and help me choose the most appropriate "vehicle" for my purposes (with 1, 2, 3 or 4 wheels).

So, what is my purpose?  I just bought a brand new tiny side-by-side 2-seat airplane mostly for "bush flying".  This involves flying low and slow down canyons, past spires, between mountains... and landing in tiny little spots on mountaintops and mountain ridges and other wild, crazy, insane places in the boonies.  After considerable research I've found a fair number of places in rural areas where I can land on a rural road and pull into a rural gas station to fill up.  Other places I can land in dirt or grass fields next to gas stations, then pull in and fill up.  But in some cases I will need to land a few hundred meters or even a few miles away from a gas station and go fetch fuel.  To do this I will carry two fuel bladders that each hold a few gallons of gasoline (probably 20 to 30 liters == 5~8 gallons each).  That's roughly 30~50 pounds each.  The fuel bladders are made of thick rubber and have handles and can have should straps attached.  So they can be carried, one on each side for balance.  But walking a few miles carrying 60~100 pounds is ... ugh!  More than I prefer to struggle with.

Which is where a super-tiny, super-lightweight "vehicle" comes in.  The idea is to pull the "vehicle" and fuel bladders out of the (very small) cargo area, hang one empty fuel bladders over each shoulder, then zoom to the nearest gas station (which I will locate from the air before landing).  At the gas station I fill up the fuel bladders, then head back to the airplane ... except with 60~100 pounds of extra weight (the gasoline).

For this purpose, the following characteristics are desirable:
  -  very small size.
  -  very light weight.
  -  very easy to ride and balance without undue strain, stress or awkwardness while carrying all that weight.
  -  easy to ride on usually but not always semi-smooth surfaces like dirt, grass, asphalt, concrete, gravel along side road, etc.

Because I will rarely need to go very far (probably a few miles at most), the following usually desirable characteristics are less important to me:
  -  long range.
  -  high speed.
  -  fun riding characteristics.

I cannot emphasize enough how important small size and light weight are.  My airplane is tiny (only weighs about 700 pounds) and the cargo area (behind the seats) is not very large.  Plus the cargo area needs to store food, water, sleeping bag, tent and emergency medical kit and tools, which leaves not much volume or weight capacity for this "vehicle".

Originally I ran into the onewheel+ XR and thought that was great (semi-compact but a bit heavy at 27 pounds).   Then I found some great-looking EUCs, but they tended to be larger and much heavier (like 45 pounds).  But later I found a couple tiny EUCs that were similar weight to the onewheel+ XR.  Then I ran into a 22 pound three-wheel electric scooter on the inmotion website for $460, which is a lot cheaper than the high quality onewheel and EUC products I found.  It is a bit long when folded up, but I think it will fit in my cargo area okay.  Then the more I researched the more small electric vehicles I found, and the less confident I became that I'm able to make a rational decision given my lack of experience.  So I decided to find a forum where people should know better than me, and that's why I'm here.

So, all you experts out there, what is best for my application?

 

[Chriull]

37 minutes ago, bootstrap said:

appropriate "vehicle" for my purposes (with 1, 2, 3 or 4 wheels).

I'll stay with 1 wheeled  - don't know others and most probalby they'll beat all others sizewise?

37 minutes ago, bootstrap said:

For this purpose, the following characteristics are desirable:
  -  very small size.
  -  very light weight.
  -  very easy to ride and balance without undue strain, stress or awkwardness while carrying all that weight.
  -  easy to ride on usually but not always semi-smooth surfaces like dirt, grass, asphalt, concrete, gravel along side road, etc.

Because I will rarely need to go very far (probably a few miles at most), the following usually desirable characteristics are less important to me:
  -  long range.
  -  high speed.
  -  fun riding characteristics.

You'll want a strong wheel - high motor power and big battery to support the motor specifications, although you don't need the range (by now).

You have 30+ extra kg hanging on your shoulder and certainly don't want to fall/run off with the two gasoline bladders.

So you should not even consider any wheel with less than 4 cells in parallel.

GW MCM5 is known as strong reliable "small" wheel (~15kg?), but only 14 inch tire. Could work out, if the roads are not too rough? Imho you do not want to drive miles over meadows on this wheel ...

The new 18 inch wheels (ks18(x)l, msx) could fit your needs quite perfect? Just a bit heavier ~25kg.

But first of all you should try out how you manage driving an EUC with this extra weight. Should be easily doable, but needs experience. ... And your weight should not be too high considering the additional freight...

 

 

[beast@tanagra]

The thought of riding rough surfaces on an EUC with a hundred pounds of fuel sloshing at my sides is giving me the willies from a balance and safety perspective. It could be done, but unless you're a featherweight yourself, you would need a higher powered (heavier) wheel to safely handle the load on hills or rough terrain. My hunch is that you're going to want a 2-wheeled device, if not 4-wheeled -- like e-bike, size. That probably blows your weight budget, but there it is.

[Mike Sacristan]

Just going shopping with my MSX is a challenge in itself. I can carry two 5kg bags and it's fine but I have to hold them a special way so that wind doesn't hit the bags, the bags should not touch the tire, the bags have to be close to me to not cause unnecessary leverage. I can't even imagine 20kg per side with that kind of volume and momentum. I would rather do several trips in that case.

Since you state that you have no experience of such vehicles then you will need around 6 months practice to pull off such a feat.

Your best bet would be a standard electric scooter like a Ninebot ES2 or Xiaomi M365.

[Chriull]

17 minutes ago, Chriull said:

Imho you do not want to drive miles over meadows on this wheel ...

Just rethought the meadows - if they are not in a "perfect" shape you don't really want to go there with any wheel.

Also not on muddy roads or in deep gravel - thats horrible to impossible.

But every path or gravel/dust road that deserves its name should be ok.

 

[null]

I’d vote for a light folding bicycle, you can carry a lot and avoid flying around the weight of a EUC (8-25kg depending of beef and range)

[mrelwood]

I also think that EUC is not the way to go here. Riding one requires a dedicated learning process. Can’t think of a vehicle that would be perfect for the task. Tiny wheeled kick-scooters can’t handle bumps or rougher terrain at all.

Depending on the off-road conditions that you will need to manage, the MiniPro (from Segway, or possibly the new Inmotion E2/E3) might be he most useful self-balancing vehicle for the task. Especially with the off-road tires. It’s what I ride during the winter, and sometimes for very short distances in the summer as well. It is easy to learn, max speed 18km/h (11mph), and weighs around 13kg (28lbs?). Range is at least 8 miles.

That said, the latest firmwares on the Segway version slows you down a lot at inclines. Depending on your own weight this might bother you in some cases. We don’t yet know wether the Ninebot’s take on the MiniPro would be better on this regard.

[Smoother]

get a 2 wheeled cart/barrow of some sort.  pull it behind you as you walk Something like this:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/283513274042?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=710-134428-41853-0&mkcid=2&itemid=283513274042&targetid=520070926453&device=c&adtype=pla&googleloc=1006517&poi=&campaignid=1782815883&adgroupid=70885937962&rlsatarget=aud-629407025185:pla-520070926453&abcId=1139366&merchantid=6995734&gclid=Cj0KCQjw3uboBRDCARIsAO2XcYBwjSvOh9OPbMzzVG0azWKYj3Fr2rspN_M9XlRv8Re-N6Pe-SN4hYgaAgm0EALw_wcB

You don't want to risk falling of ANY ridable where you claim to be going.  None of them are practical or safe for what you describe.

 

[tessa25]

I would recommend a folding game cart.

game cart

[meepmeepmayer]

In my opinion, you need

• Something with a big tire diameter (for going through grass and over rough terrain)
• Something with more than one wheel, so it's stable enough, especially with one or two heavy weights swinging around. Also for comfort.

If I had to go with a EUC, I'd say MCM5. You won't get what you want with a smaller diameter or lighter wheel (650Wh and 800Wh version have the same weight btw). But a EUC seems not too ideal here (other than that it still the smallest and maybe lightest option).

Some kind of compact/short but powerful offroad scooter with robust tires, maybe with a smaller battery (less weight), could work for you. I don't know how heavy those things are. You could also hang the fuel bladders onto the handle bar, surely that's more convenient than carrying them.

Or the smallest/lightest regular folding bicycle you can find.

The idea of dragging a cart also isn't bad. But I'm still not sure what you should drag it with. And the cart would need big tires as well, not those tiny plastic rollers.

You're actually not the first person to ask this specific question here. There wasn't a good answer the other times as well. Grass etc. needs a powerful enough and stable (big tire diameter) enough vehicle, which just doesn't go well with a small and low-weight requirement.

TLDR: A compact but powerful scooter WITH BIG PNEUMATIC TIRES AND SUSPENSION (I don't believe something like the Xiaomi 365 would fare well on grass at all!) is the best I can come up with. While an MCM5 might work, I don't think it is a very pleasant/convenient option in the longer term.

Edited July 1, 2019 by meepmeepmayer

[bootstrap]

Wow, thanks to everyone for their thoughts.  I should add a few other thoughts of my own that I forgot to include in my original.  Apparently this forum doesn't provide me a way to edit the original to make it more complete (and correct the 3~5 typos).

#01:  A "vehicle" that let most of the weight of the fuel bladders be supported by the vehicle somehow would be great.  This made me think of making an extension for the front and back of the onewheel.  If carefully designed, these extensions could probably/hopefully slide on from the front and back ends and add an extra 8" ~ 15" on each end.  Then I could let the weight of the fuel bladders rest on those extensions while still retaining them via the straps over my shoulders.

#02:  As a general rule, I would not land in a muddy field ... at least not on purpose ... and so we can assume "no muddy fields".  Though the airplane can land on fairly rough and bumpy surfaces, I should be able to always avoid that during "fuel stops".  In many cases what happens in practice is the following.  I can find a spot right next to the road a few hundred or thousand meters/yards from the gas station.  So I can wait for "no traffic" in both directions (easy to see from above), then land on the road and pull into the "pull-off area" (almost all of which are rather flat dirt where cars pull off now and then).  In many cases I can roll right up to the gas station and pull up to the pumps, but the wingspan is 11 meters and sometimes obstructions next to the entrance are higher than 1.5 meters (the height of the bottom of the wings).  In these cases I need to find a place elsewhere, usually "down the road a ways".  The length of the airplane is only 6.5 meters, so I need to find a pull-off spot that is at least ~6 meters wide (the airplane is a "tail-wheel" type, so the nose can hang over nothing about 1 meter or so).

#03:  In general I avoid cities and "real" airports... just cuz they're a hassle and no fun, not because I can't fly into them.  However, if I land anywhere near "the edge of town" somewhere, the trip to the first gas station at the edge of town will be on the road, a sidewalk, a dirt trail along the road, or the shoulder of the road.  As everyone here knows, it is possible to get off the "vehicle" and walk a few meters to get past especially difficult terrain.

#04:  Most fuel bladders tend to be fairly high, moderately wide (front to back), and fairly thin (one side against a leg, other side to left or right).  While they are somewhat flexible, they tend not to slosh (they expand when more fuel is added to them).  Given their weight, they tend to press against both legs when carried full.  This can sometimes be annoying when legs move forward and backward during walking, but on one of your "vehicles", this behavior might actually be more stable and convenient.  As a couple of you said above, I could take 2+ trips with smaller fuel bladders if necessary.  Or alternately, I could take one trip, not get as much fuel, then fly around on that fuel looking for a more convenient gas station / landing spot.  Since the airplane gets 50~70 miles per gallon, even a few gallons of fuel will take me a long, long way (say 250 miles on two 2-gallon fuel bladders which weigh less than 15 pounds each full of fuel).  Now that I have worked through this mentally, clearly I should carry a couple of these tiny fuel bladders with me too.  In fact, except for trips into extremely remote areas, much smaller fuel bladders might always suffice.

#05:  I suppose "stick out the thumb and hitch a ride" is always an option when conditions suck.

#06:  I'm not a lightweight, and compared to some of you "whippersnappers", I may be approaching what you would rude call an "old fart".  :-)  On the positive side, I rode street motorcycles for many years, including several 6000+ mile round trips across the USSA.  About 250,000 miles total, no accidents.  The "close calls" were all imbeciles in cars (which will surprise nobody here, I suspect).  So I have at least a tiny bit of "sense of balance" on vehicles with less than 4 wheels.  Oh, right, the airplane has less than four wheels too!  :-)  I also used to ski, but never got past intermediate, so a bit more balance practice there (but unlike the motorcycle balance instinct, which will never leave me, not sure about how well I can ski now).

#07:  Yes, I really would prefer to avoid the size and weight of an ebike.  I do know someone with the same airplane has one of those and it barely, barely fits through the opening into the cargo area.  To access the cargo area you remove either seat back and that exposes the opening into the cargo area.  I'm guessing that hole is a bit over 20" high and perhaps 12" ~ 14" wide.  When I get a chance to measure the opening, I'll add that information.

#08:  The more I think about this (especially after reading what Mike said), seems like I should restrict myself to 2.0 to 2.5 gallon fuel bladders (~10 liters each).  If this change in requirements greatly impacts your advice ... give new advice!  :-)

#09:  Does anyone have anything to say about that $460 scooter from inmotion (or better equivalent)?

#10:  One other thought I had was ... a motorized carry-on suitcase device (that the human walks behind, not rides).  That is, if any such device exists.  In case you can't picture what I mean, it would look like the following.  It would have an L shape where the bottom of the L is where you put the small suitcase (or fuel bladders in my application), the corner of the L is where the two wheels are, the vertical part of the L is what the carried load leans against, and the top of the L is a handle the human holds to "push" or "guide" the device.  Presumably the batteries would be in a "flat-pack" between the two vertical bars.  Essentially, this would be a motorized hand-truck ... except a much, much lighter device for much, much lighter weights (like carry-on suitcases).  Essentially, this would probably be designed for little old ladies that can't or don't want to carry even the modest weight of a carry-on bag onto an airplane.  I've never seen anything like this, but my first thought is ... it could be very lightweight because it only supports the weight of the load, not including a human (who walks behind guiding the device forward).  Does anything like this exist, perhaps?  I don't mind walking a few miles to the gas station ... as long as I need not carry the weight of so much gasoline.

#11:  Seems like Smoother is also onto this approach.  Not sure if any of the devices on that page are motorized.  I suppose I don't absolutely need a motorized "vehicle" for smaller weights (say 4~5 gallons total), but motorized would be nice for longer hauls (a few miles) with greater weight if I go that way (50~100 pounds).  The big question here might be ... does anyone make a seriously lightweight version of something like this?

#12:  Tessa is also onto this approach.  But I don't think this device folds, and unfolded would probably not fit through the opening to the cargo area.  However, something lighter that folds might be an ideal solution, especially if motorized.

#13:  Does anyone make motorized "accessories" that might be attached to some of these not-motorized devices?  Like maybe accessories to convert a regular bike into an ebike?

#14:  How about a combo idea?  How about a onewheel or probably better an EUC pulling or pushing some tiny "wagon" that holds the fuel bladders?  This way the weight is taken by a mechanical device (not me).  Plus, for shorter trips I could just skip the onewheel or EUC and push or pull the "wagon" myself.  Boy would I look stupid ... like a 3 year old kid!  Hahaha.  Nonetheless, should work.  Plus, I won't look nearly as stupid when I hop into my airplane and zoom away!  Hahaha.

#15:  I will look more carefully at the specific "vehicles" all of you mentioned.  I only briefly looked at them so far, but wanted to get a reply posted here.

[tessa25]

39 minutes ago, bootstrap said:

#12:  Tessa is also onto this approach.  But I don't think this device folds, and unfolded would probably not fit through the opening to the cargo area.  However, something lighter that folds might be an ideal solution, especially if motorized.

Actually, it does fold in half. I have one that I use to move heavy things around the yard. You could probably use an euc with it.

Edited July 2, 2019 by tessa25

[bootstrap]

1 hour ago, tessa25 said:

Actually, it does fold in half. I have one that I use to move heavy things around the yard. You could probably use an euc with it.

Then this game cart might be close to ideal, except for the weight.  A smaller, lighter version of this would be good.  Also, for my purposes, I don't need the bottom section to stick out that far.  But for most other purposes the larger bed is probably better.

I wonder whether anyone has tried to pull something like this behind an EUC or onewheel.

[Rehab1]

19 hours ago, beast@tanagra said:

The thought of riding rough surfaces on an EUC with a hundred pounds of fuel sloshing at my sides is giving me the willies from a balance and safety perspective. 

I’ve seen those rubber fuel bladders.Are they specifically designed to be removed from the aircraft and transported to a fuel station? I assume the bladders are well secured inside the aircraft’s wings so there must be some degree of effort just to remove them. Being an ex pilot I would worry about this venture. Do you have any photos of your aircraft and the fuel bladders? 

[Bob Eisenman]

Despite the requisite bush flying skills that you claim to have your flight plan is unimpressive. 

Until you have the cash required to manage your dream that is a fraction of that required by this DRACO your intent smells like a dangerous insider joke at the hanger.

Buy a Dahon folding bike and just stay home.

[bootstrap]

44 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

I’ve seen those rubber fuel bladders.Are they specifically designed to be removed from the aircraft and transported to a fuel station? I assume the bladders are well secured inside the aircraft’s wings so there must be some degree of effort just to remove them. Being an ex pilot I would worry about this venture. Do you have any photos of your aircraft and the fuel bladders? 

Actually, the fuel bladders I've been looking at do not hold fuel while the airplane is flying.  They are simply for fetching fuel from a gas station, transporting the fuel to a boat, airplane or other vehicle, and then transferring the fuel into the normal fuel tank of the vehicle.  They are not part of the airplane (or boat, etc).

I don't have photos of my specific airplane, but I can attach photos of the same kind of airplane (at the bottom, after the videos).  I'll attach a few photos so you can get an idea of the size and shape from a few angles, and at least one photo with two people in the airplane for scale.  It is fine for 2 people to fly around in, but doesn't have much extra space.  In the photo that shows 2 people you can see how the airplane body gets smaller fairly quick behind the pilot and copilot/passenger, and the cargo area is behind the pilot and passenger seats.  So ... not much extra space.  While someone does carry an electric bicycle in one of these airplanes, I very much doubt he also has room for tent, sleeping bag, other supplies and such too.  If I can find a link to the video with the guy taking his ebike out of his airplane, I'll post that link below.  My airplane is a tail-wheel version of a pipistrel virus sw with 912iS engine, optional 300 liter fuel tanks, maxed-out modern avionics, 26" "tundra tires", and so forth.  The first photo is just a general photo that shows the wingspan (but is a nose-wheel model, not tail-wheel).  The second photo is a tail-wheel model and shows the size of my 26" Tundra tires.  I also have smaller tires with covers for best fuel economy on long trips (interchangeable).  The third photo gives you an idea of how much space exists behind the pilot and copilot/passenger for cargo.  The fourth photo shows how small the airplane is next to a "real airplane" ... hahaha!  The fifth photo is a side-view of a tail-wheel model with somewhat smaller tires.  The sixth photo is also a side-view of a tail-wheel model that is not yet complete (on the factory floor), but gives a good idea of how large the cargo area must be.

The biggest difference with my airplane and normal ones is the 300 liter fuel tanks (79 gallons) versus the standard 100 liter fuel tanks (26 gallons).  Given the fact this airplane gets 50~70 miles per gallon fuel economy, these large tanks mean this is the only small airplane that can fly non-stop from the west coast to Hawaii... and all the way across the north and south pacific ocean in hops of 4000km (2500 miles) or less (with 20% safety margin).  And I do intend to fly across the pacific ocean at least a couple times, and visit at least several dozen tiny islands along the way.  BUT ... a bush pilot prefers to carry much less fuel when "bush flying", because the distance required for landing and takeoff increase with weight.  And so, to land in tiny spots (like 100 feet, 50 feet ... or even less depending on wind and slope) ... a bush pilot flies with less fuel in the tanks.

 

The following video is very similar to my airplane with the small tires installed.  The pilot removes an electric YikeBike from the cargo area starting at 06:25.  Note that the obstruction on the left just inside the cargo area does not exist in my airplane.  That encloses a rocket-propelled ballistic whole-airplane parachute.  I decided to skip that option to save money, save weight, and increase available cargo area.  If anyone knows the YikeBike, the view at 06:36 should give a general idea of the cargo area volume (well, half the volume minus the ballistic parachute).  Not sure how great this tiny YikeBike would be for hauling heavy pouches of gasoline... though maybe two small 2.5 gallon fuel bladders might be plausible?  Maybe?  Do remember, the fuel bladders are stored in the cargo area, NEVER with fuel in them.
 

##########

 

The following is also very similar to my airplane, but shows the kind of flying I do NOT do.  I'm not sure whether I am crazier or this pilot is.  I suppose, probably me.  :-o
 

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The following is a different kind of bush airplane, but shows the kind of places I like to land ... and picnic ... and camp ... and hang out.
 

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The following is a different kind of bush airplane, but shows the kind of places I like to land ... and picnic ... and camp ... and hang out (03:30 approach and land : 04:50 hang out : 06:00 take-off and fly away):
 

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Does bush flying look like fun?  :-)  Thought so.  Anyone near my location can join me for some fun bush flying like what you see in these videos.  My area has some fairly nice places to fly, including Lake Powell, Grand Canyon, Monument Valley, tons of unknown canyons.  One moron bush pilot even flew through a couple arches in southern Utah.  Insane!  We ride these crazy machines for fun.  Right?  :-)  No landing in this next video, just 01:33 of fun flying nicely synced with music (followed by boring talk about the camera that shot the video):

 

##########

 

Here is some canyon flying starting at 05:08, some airplane water-skiing at 06:20, landing at Arby's and filling up at gas station at 08:00, flying through the rock notch starting at 09:05, some typical southwest flying starting at 11:43 ... just another day in the life of a bush pilot.
 

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Or how about landing on a mountain ridge at 13:49.  I love these kinds of places too:
 

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Anyway, that should be way, way, way more than enough to help everyone understand what bush flying and bush airplanes are all about.  A few photos of airplanes like mine are shown below.  Mine is more sleek, modern and efficient than the others, but just as much fun.  Just a lot longer range (5400km) and fuel efficient (50~70mpg).

Now, aren't you sorry you asked that question?  Hahaha.

 

 

[bootstrap]

15 minutes ago, Bob Eisenman said:

Despite the requisite bush flying skills that you claim to have your flight plan is unimpressive. 

Until you have the cash required to manage your dream that is a fraction of that required by this DRACO your intent smells like a dangerous insider joke at the hanger.

Buy a Dahon folding bike and just stay home.

 

The Draco is one awesome bush plane!  Unfortunately for me, I didn't have $600,000 and a year of time to create one like that.  It is truly awesome, no question.  However, what got me to spend most of my life savings was an airplane that can do two things quite well:  bush-flying and long-range flying.  For sure the Draco will clean my clock on the most extreme bush flying performance.  However, my airplane can fly across the pacific ocean in hops, something no other tiny 2-seat airplane can do (without adding "ferry tanks" and taking off far above MTOW (maximum take-off weight)... for which a pilot needs special permission every time (and is incredibly awkward in many ways.

So, let's just say that my plans and my airplane suck on the scale of Bob Eisenman.  But I wonder.  Would anyone else in this forum enjoy some bush flying of the kind illustrated in my previous message?  Maybe not.  But guess what?  My airplane is good enough for me.  And good enough for flying to Hawaii, to Easter Island, to Fiji, to Tahiti, to NZ, to UA, to anywhere in the world I want to go.  So, knock it down.  I don't care.  Because you are essentially correct... the Draco is one awesome airplane.

[mrelwood]

If I needed to fetch fuel for you, I'd go with an EUC. But that's because I've been riding one a lot for two and a half years. But as said, it would require dedication and a good amount of time on your part to get your skills to the point where it would even be helpful for you. Learning to ride for this purpose only doesn't sound worth it.

If the fuel fetch trips are indeed on dirt roads or even smoother surfaces, the Segway/Ninebot MiniPro would definitely be a notable option. The steering bar detaches completely with a quick-release lever making it fit a lot better in small spaces. (The Inmotion equivalent E2/E3 doesn't have the quick-release.) An optional handlebar is also available.

There are obviously two approaches to the issue: A vehicle to make the trip faster, or a trolley to literally take the weight off your shoulders. The MiniPro is obviously in the first group.

Here's an example of the terrain that is no problem for the MiniPro with the original tires. For further bush whacking the 3rd party off-road tires are a must, they are what I have on mine.

 

Edited July 2, 2019 by mrelwood

[meepmeepmayer]

The thought of using a Minipro on even a non-lawn mowed grass surface... It's going to veer off course constantly.

Looks like @bootstrap needs something very offroad capable. I still say scooter with the biggest tires you can find and the platform high above the ground.

[Bob Eisenman]

10 hours ago, bootstrap said:

let's just say that my plans 

To fetch aviation fuel

10 hours ago, bootstrap said:

suck

 

[AtlasP]

Step one, figure out what size/configuration of fuel bladders you can fit into a reasonably-sized backpack. Carrying such weight (when it can swing like a pendulum) on any of the devices being discussed is orders of magnitude more difficult than wearing it in a backpack.

Despite the learning curve, a 14" tire on a low-mid-range EUC would technically still accommodate such terrain better than most small & light scooters. (Scooters that would work better are almost certainly outside the size/weight constraints, and otherwise most small & light scooters have tiny wheels and poor ground clearance for anything other than very flat off-roading.) An MCM5 or KS14S would probably be the best bet for EUCs. Expect to spend a couple months not just learning to ride but building enough confidence for this to be viable/comfortable.

The OneWheel Pint could be a contender. Lower weight and smaller size than the chunkier XR, but still has that wide tire which is pretty great for many kinds of off-roading situations (including sand/soft). Very limited range though, 6-8 miles, which means only ~3 miles one-way--although you could leave a quick charger in the plane to take with you if you think a particular situation might call for it, and grab food/chill around the gas station for a bit to top up the OW if necessary. Would have a learning curve/time maybe a little bit less but still in the same ballpark as an EUC.

Edited September 19, 2019 by AtlasP

[bootstrap]

3 hours ago, Bob Eisenman said:

To fetch aviation fuel

 

Bob Eisenman ... so nothing short of Draco is a worthwhile bush plane?  What kind of bush plane do you have?

Bob Eisenman ... show us how much better a bush plane you have than the tail-wheel pipistrel virus sw with 912iS engine and 26" tundra tires that I mentioned?

Bob Eisenman ... who said I need to fetch aviation fuel?  Aviation fuel contains lead, quite a bit of lead even given the common name 100LL == "100 octane low lead".

Bob Eisenman ... for your information I have no intention to ever put leaded fuel in my airplane.  But I guess you don't know leaded fuel clogs up Rotax 912iS engines.

Bob Eisenman ... you should have recognized that gas stations don't carry leaded fuel and my whole post was about getting unleaded fuel from gas stations.

Bob Eisenman ... if I was willing to dump lead into my airplane, I'd have no need to stop at gas stations, because many airports offer self-serve aviation fuel 24/7.

Bob Eisenman ... if you think I care whether my plans or flying or missions impress you, then you are sadly and radically mistaken.

Bob Eisenman ... I don't know where your attitude comes from, but I feel sorry for anyone who has no choice but to live with someone with that attitude (namely you).

Bob Eisenman ... Sorry, but bush planes need not frequent airports or their hangars.  No matter how pathetic I may look, nobody will see or cares.  Especially me.

Bob Eisenman ... Fly your better-than-Draco bush plane wherever you wish, and impress everyone, for obviously you care deeply what others think about you.

Bob Eisenman ... If you want to impress me, follow me in your bush plane from California to Hawaii ... without ferry tanks.  Otherwise, I'm not impressed.

Mike & Mark Patey would never make such an attempt.  OTOH, unlike Bob, they don't need to impress anyone, or prove anything to anyone, or pretend anything.

----------

To the rest of you here, thanks for the advice, information and effort to be helpful.  If you're in the west, and you want to enjoy some bush flying, let me know.

While we're out having fun, Bob can search desperately for people to impress, and who don't think he and his bush plane are a joke.

##########

After the advice so far, here is how I'm leaning:

  -  Much smaller fuel bladders (probably about 10 liters == 18~20 pounds each when full of fuel).

  -  I walk and the fuel bladders ride on/in some tiny lightweight rolling device (motorized or not) that I pull or push.

  -  Large and wide tires would be nice, but that is likely to not be important except very rarely.

  -  OTOH, I am still open to something I ride, perhaps like a tiny eBike or scooter?

  -  Still open to more ideas and advice.  The advice here is helping.

  -  The airplane has two 12V out sockets to charge devices.

PS:  For those folks who didn't want to take the time to review all those videos and photos, you might want to watch a minute of the first video starting at about 6:00 (the six minute point).  This shows the best view of the cargo area I have at the moment... with a small eBike inside (a "YikeBike").  That's probably the best brief way to get an idea of the size and shape of the cargo area.  What you will see is the hole behind the removed pilot seatback.  The cargo area extends to behind the passenger seatback too, and mine cargo area is a bit more open because that blob-structure on the immediate left in the cargo area is an optional ballistic parachute assembly that I did not select.

Edited July 2, 2019 by bootstrap
fix typos

[meepmeepmayer]

15 minutes ago, bootstrap said:

-  The airplane has two 12V out sockets to charge devices.

That will do exactly nothing. You need a real outlet to charge a ridable. 100+ Watts (and that is about the slowest charger) is not going to work on 12V. Not that you'd need it, but looks like you can't charge the ridable in the plane.

Also, ignore Bob. Often he justs posts non-sequiturs, but this time he is unusually hostile, not sure why

[Mike Sacristan]

Regarding the 3-wheeled scooter from Inmotion. It is not designed like a normal scooter and it is meant to turn by leaning which probably won't be very productive. It's a bit of a novelty scooter and it will behave more like a longboard with a handle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZUQkOQnqoo

A Xiaomi M365 standard or pro version would get the job done. Standard version is 12.5kg and foldable. Check out the dimensions and measure it up to see if it fits.

Also... an electric unicycle is incidentally a powered suitcase except it can't carry stuff inside of it but you could carry stuff on top of it and roll it with the trolly handle. Provided you could balance 20 litres on it and that might require som ingenuity.

When it comes to carrying stuff on an electric unicycle while riding it is a good idea to have the stuff being carried as close to the body as possible. Preferably front to back instead of side to side. So a backpack and a "frontpack" would be a preferred solution than bags hanging to the sides. It will still require a lot of skill and you will risk falling on rough terrain.

I thought you were doing brilliantly at handling Bob but alas you fell into his trap.
Bob is Bob and means nothing bad. He is just Bob. You disarmed him quite well with your excellent explanations, youtube links, photos, etc which I found very informative.

Remember that you can ride the vehicle to where you are going for fuel. Then ride or walk it back.

 

[Mike Sacristan]

Also here is the Mten3. With a trolley handle attached. Different wheels have different handles. Some have a scorpion type, some have a retractable one that goes in the exact top center of the unicycle. The ones with a rear trolley handle could be used to steer while walking and still balance something on top of it. Or some saddle bag configuration.

I have a Ninebot One E+ (electric unicycle). I have a 10kg kettlebell and a 12kg kettlebell. I can hop on tomorrow with the kettlebells and try it just to experience pure hell haha.