Where does EUC adoption come from?

[Terenig]

I was wondering where electric unicycle adoption comes from?

YouTube seems to be a big one.

Has the proliferation of electric scooters like Bird/Lime increased interest, curiosity, or awareness of EUCs?

[meepmeepmayer]

Exactly like you say.

People see them. Youtube or in (increasingly in some places) real life and are intrigued.

Some see a Onewheel or scooter, do research, and then end up with EUCs. So the scooter craze certainly led some people on the right path.

[LanghamP]

My experience was first seeing the very large Segways but dismissing them due to affordability.

Then playing with a hoverboard, but dismissing that due to its inability to do anything other than spins on a smooth dance floor.

Then electric skateboards, but those are limited to just smooth surfaces and very short ranges.

EBikes work very well (I have one) yet they aren't compact; they are unsuitable for last mile transportation. Thus they are somewhat more recreational, especially as you cannot leave one outside due to thieves.

The foldable eScooters is in my opinion a better last mile transportation due to its safety and is still pretty compact.

The EUC is a surprisingly practical device, except the faceplanting part. Roll it or carry it onto a bus or Subway or a car with ease, even the 50 pound 18 inchers are incredibly compact. All EUCs now have incredible range and powerful motors.

I can see there being an eScooter vs EUC competition, especially as the cheap portable angle grinder requires that any electric vehicle must be carried inside.

[eddiemoy]

I don't think EUC will ever be widely adopted.  It is perceived as too difficult to learn and it is too costly.  People think it is a toy like hoverboards.  The many years I've been following this, it hasn't taken off at all.  I'm still the only person in my town to ride.  But now I know someone from one town over who rides.  That's after 3 years.

[Girth Brooks]

@Terenig I bought a pair of Ninebot miniPROs when they released. I was watching repair videos for mine on YouTube this past summer when I stumbled on a @houseofjob EUC video. I have been falling down the rabbit hole ever faster since.

[Marty Backe]

33 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

I don't think EUC will ever be widely adopted.  It is perceived as too difficult to learn and it is too costly.  People think it is a toy like hoverboards.  The many years I've been following this, it hasn't taken off at all.  I'm still the only person in my town to ride.  But now I know someone from one town over who rides.  That's after 3 years.

I agree. EUC usage is clearly growing but it'll forever be very niche. I'm not sure about the perception of it being a toy. I think the perceived (and real) difficulty of learning to ride and the danger, plus the expense, will keep most people from learning.

And here's what's really perverse. The people who are most likely to join our craze are the young, but they have a much harder time affording the purchase. The older folks (us) can afford them, but are the most risk averse. And to make things worse, our wheels are getting more expensive (faster than inflation).

[meepmeepmayer]

Yep, price is the big big big #1 concern. Once a 40kph/25mph 50km/30mile machine costs 500, young people will be there!

[Kristof Willen]

33 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Yep, price is the big big big #1 concern. Once a 40kph/25mph 50km/30mile machine costs 500, young people will be there!

The fact that EUCs are a large gray zone in legislation in most countries surely doesn't help either. 

Edited January 17, 2019 by Kristof Willen
typo

[LanghamP]

16 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I agree. EUC usage is clearly growing but it'll forever be very niche. I'm not sure about the perception of it being a toy. I think the perceived (and real) difficulty of learning to ride and the danger, plus the expense, will keep most people from learning.

And here's what's really perverse. The people who are most likely to join our craze are the young, but they have a much harder time affording the purchase. The older folks (us) can afford them, but are the most risk averse. And to make things worse, our wheels are getting more expensive (faster than inflation).

Over the span of ten years the cost of batteries has dropped quite a bit, I think to 1/5 the cost, so wheels should be getting cheaper. And the technology is more mature so the cost should be getting lower. Instead, wheels are getting more expensive and the number of people who ride wheels doesn't see to be getting higher very quickly.

So what's happening?

1. The Chinese are taking our worthless dollars, with some inflation.

2. Automobiles are in the same situation; they get around it by offering sub-prime loans. The vast majority of cars, even five year old cars, still have loans on them. No such loans are offered to EUCs (although interestingly most eBikes do offer zero interest loans).

3. EScooters take the majority share of new riders. Hell, after riding a powerful one I'm tempted to buy one.

4. EBikes, see point 3.

5. EUCs are primarily bought new by well-heeled enthusiasts so the low and mid range wheels are getting ignored. Your more expensive wheel is much better than your older wheels. It's not just a cosmetic change.

[Hakunas]

4 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I agree. EUC usage is clearly growing but it'll forever be very niche. I'm not sure about the perception of it being a toy. I think the perceived (and real) difficulty of learning to ride and the danger, plus the expense, will keep most people from learning.

And here's what's really perverse. The people who are most likely to join our craze are the young, but they have a much harder time affording the purchase. The older folks (us) can afford them, but are the most risk averse. And to make things worse, our wheels are getting more expensive (faster than inflation).

Hmm, i don't agree with you on the niche thing. Take the electric scooter for an example it blew up and people are all over it, 

is it safer than a one wheel - hell no ,

is it more practical- hell no ,

are the scooters cheaper - hell no.

I think the problem why we aren't seeing ecus everywhere is because people don't know what it is and how much better of a transportation vehicle it is than a bike, skateboard, or a scooter (i'm talking about city transport) Not a marketing specialist maybe some company will figure it out how to get to the people, like airwheel is trying with their adds and newbie friendly features like extra wheels or the 2 wheel model. I still wanna believe that ecus gonna be the future of transport in the cities.

[meepmeepmayer]

13 minutes ago, Kristof Willen said:

The fact that EUCs are a large gray zone in legislation is most countries surely doesn't help either. 

True. Especially young people (who tend to be less confident) will be more easily impressed/bullied into not riding if the legislation isn't clear.

[eddiemoy]

3 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

Over the span of ten years the cost of batteries has dropped quite a bit, I think to 1/5 the cost, so wheels should be getting cheaper. And the technology is more mature so the cost should be getting lower. Instead, wheels are getting more expensive and the number of people who ride wheels doesn't see to be getting higher very quickly.

So what's happening?

1. The Chinese are taking our worthless dollars, with some inflation.

2. Automobiles are in the same situation; they get around it by offering sub-prime loans. The vast majority of cars, even five year old cars, still have loans on them. No such loans are offered to EUCs (although interestingly most eBikes do offer zero interest loans).

3. EScooters take the majority share of new riders. Hell, after riding a powerful one I'm tempted to buy one.

4. EBikes, see point 3.

5. EUCs are primarily bought new by well-heeled enthusiasts so the low and mid range wheels are getting ignored. Your more expensive wheel is much better than your older wheels. It's not just a cosmetic change.

Price has dropped.  You can't compare the price of the top of the line.  The entry wheels are the ones we should be comparing with the initial wheels of many years ago.  I remember the first solowheel i saw that got me hooked back in 2014 cost $2000.  I instead bought a knockoff the airwheel that cost $1000.  you can get a ninebot one for under $500.  

[eddiemoy]

38 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I agree. EUC usage is clearly growing but it'll forever be very niche. I'm not sure about the perception of it being a toy. I think the perceived (and real) difficulty of learning to ride and the danger, plus the expense, will keep most people from learning.

And here's what's really perverse. The people who are most likely to join our craze are the young, but they have a much harder time affording the purchase. The older folks (us) can afford them, but are the most risk averse. And to make things worse, our wheels are getting more expensive (faster than inflation).

I think people who are not familiar with EUC's the ones who see us riding around see it as a toy.  Not the ones who look into it and start on the hobby.  How would they know that the wheels we are riding around are so fast and have such crazy range.  That is the number one shocker when they hear me saying 30mile or 50 miles of range.  their eyes light up.

[eddiemoy]

1 hour ago, Girth Brooks said:

@Terenig I bought a pair of Ninebot miniPROs when they released. I was watching repair videos for mine on YouTube this past summer when I stumbled on a @houseofjob EUC video. I have been falling down the rabbit hole ever faster since.

I unfortunately bought those too thinking that they are mini segways and would be quickly adopted due to the ease of learning.  But they are limited in use and awkward to transport.  They are super easy to learn, takes seconds to a few minutes for your brain to figure out.  

[winterwheel]

The biggest/only obstacle to much wider-spread use where I live is the inability to acquire them locally. People lose interest almost immediately when I tell them they have to mail order to get one.

Edited January 17, 2019 by winterwheel

[LanghamP]

14 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

Price has dropped.  You can't compare the price of the top of the line.  The entry wheels are the ones we should be comparing with the initial wheels of many years ago.  I remember the first solowheel i saw that got me hooked back in 2014 cost $2000.  I instead bought a knockoff the airwheel that cost $1000.  you can get a ninebot one for under $500.  

The several year old Segway S1 sold for $299 and has just a slightly lower speed (500 versus 800 watts) and range as the OneWheel extended range that goes for $1700.

The MSX and KS18XL are completely nuts, in a good way.

[meepmeepmayer]

20 minutes ago, Hakunas said:

Hmm, i don't agree with you on the niche thing. Take the electric scooter for an example it blew up and people are all over it, 

is it safer than a one wheel - hell no ,

is it more practical- hell no ,

are the scooters cheaper - hell no.

Mh.

• Scooters are safer in that they don't fall over on their own and every moron can ride one (and brake) easily. Only the small tires make them less safe.
• I'd say they are more practical for that reason, too. Easy to understand and learn for everyone. Low weight. Clearly the main personal electric vehicle in the future, in my opinion. In Paris everyone has one, and the Lime/Bird scooters are also adopted quickly wherever they appear.
• These Xiaomi 365 (or whatever the name is) scooters used by the rental companies are dirt cheap compared to EUCs.

So scooters definitely win the mass market, I would say. But you're right that EUCs are just much cooler and more fun. And the have the absolute advantage of being the smallest - no need to keep them outside, can be easily taken onto a bus, and so on.

[Girth Brooks]

@eddiemoy my thoughts on the miniPRO as well. It was insanely easy to learn.

[eddiemoy]

6 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

The several year old Segway S1 sold for $299 and has just a slightly lower speed (500 versus 800 watts) and range as the OneWheel extended range that goes for $1700.

The MSX and KS18XL are completely nuts, in a good way.

if you compare the original solowheel, specs are pretty much the same(speed, wheel size, range) as the ninbot one c+/e+, but cost was $2000 vs now you can get the ninebot for $350 online.

but if compared to the msx or ks18xl, it doesn't.  for the same price, you get more 2x power, 2-3x speed, 5x range.  

[EUCMania]

How did I get into EUC rabbit hole? One day in early Dec of year 201x, I was looking for Xmas gifts on internet. Accidentally, hoverboards appeared. Self-balancing? WOW! I searched youtube. EUC came up on screen. More yourtube watching. What was the price? $250! Buy! and I bought a TGT3. It died in 2 weeks but I was already hooked. So bought NB1E+.....

Now a 9B1 C or A1 cost only $<500, I am puzzled why not many people buy. Is $500 that big deal in USA?

 

Edited January 17, 2019 by EUCMania

[Marty Backe]

7 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Mh.

• Scooters are safer in that they don't fall over on their own and every moron can ride one (and brake) easily. Only the small tires make them less safe.
• I'd say they are more practical for that reason, too. Easy to understand and learn for everyone. Low weight. Clearly the main personal electric vehicle in the future, in my opinion. In Paris everyone has one, and the Lime/Bird scooters are also adopted quickly wherever they appear.
• These Xiaomi 365 (or whatever the name is) scooters used by the rental companies are dirt cheap compared to EUCs.

So scooters definitely win the mass market, I would say. But you're right that EUCs are just much cooler and more fun. And the have the absolute advantage of being the smallest - no need to keep them outside, can be easily taken onto a bus, and so on.

This is huge in my opinion. I mean, I take my EUC everywhere. Can you bring your bike/scooter/whatever into the grocery store to pick-up a few items? Ditto for sandwiches, movie tickets, movies, DMV, department stores, etc. NO.

But trolleying a wheel next to you takes essentially zero more space. I've never been approached, "you can't take that here, please leave it outside".

[meepmeepmayer]

7 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

This is huge in my opinion. I mean, I take my EUC everywhere. Can you bring your bike/scooter/whatever into the grocery store to pick-up a few items? Ditto for sandwiches, movie tickets, movies, DMV, department stores, etc. NO.

But trolleying a wheel next to you takes essentially zero more space. I've never been approached, "you can't take that here, please leave it outside".

Completely agree.

If only the IPS i5 was better marketed! Such a fantastic form factor for a light wheel, you don't believe it until you try.

[Marty Backe]

7 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Completely agree.

If only the IPS i5 was better marketed! Such a fantastic form factor for a light wheel, you don't believe it until you try.

I have ridden the IPS i5 a couple of times. If was a little cheaper I would have bought one.

[Terenig]

Wow lots of interesting comments and insights.

My adoption was YouTube as well. The reviewers seemed to be so excited and enthusiastic that I took to plunge and ordered. I started off with a Segway One S1 then upgraded to the King Song 14D after a few months.

And I can't go anywhere without people asking me what it is!

[travsformation]

3 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

I agree. EUC usage is clearly growing but it'll forever be very niche. I'm not sure about the perception of it being a toy. I think the perceived (and real) difficulty of learning to ride and the danger, plus the expense, will keep most people from learning.

And here's what's really perverse. The people who are most likely to join our craze are the young, but they have a much harder time affording the purchase. The older folks (us) can afford them, but are the most risk averse. And to make things worse, our wheels are getting more expensive (faster than inflation).

I completely agree EUCs will probably always be a niche (albeit a very devout one!). That explanation pretty much nailed it!

My particular case might be a good example. I'm in my mid-thirties and my acquisitive is a bit above the average for my age (for Spain); more than 20-30 year-olds', but not what we'd call rich/well off either. Riding an EUC was purely circumstantial for me. I had my driver's license temporarily revoked and live in a fairly remote residential area--the closest shops are about 7 km away. When my partner is at work, I'm pretty much stuck at home. I needed a means of transportation that didn't require a driving license, and there's no public transportation here. It's a VERY hilly area, so my mountain bike was hardly an option.

After several months of complete isolation, I was starting to go nuts and looking into alternatives. My first choice was an e-Bike, but they seemed too expensive (couldn't find anything decent below €1,500-2,000). Also, I don't have that much storage space so another bike wasn't the best option for me. I'd seen plenty of e-scooters in Barcelona, and thought they were kind of cool and looked like a practical way to commute, but never really considered them as a viable means of transportation. Maybe it's just because I've never liked scooters; I don't trust such small wheels (even on 125 cc scooters; grew up with dirt bikes, what can I say...). And hoverboards...just seemed like a joke.

All the same, e-scooters piqued my curiosity. So I looked up "electric scooter" on Amazon and one of the hits was a €500 Ninebot (I think it was an E+). I'd never seen or heard of EUCs before, but after reading the reviews, I was intrigued and checked out a few Youtube videos. And....that was it! It was 1/3 of the price of an e-bike, much more portable, wasn't an -e-scooter....my mind was made up, I was going to get an EUC.

So I did a little research (clearly not enough or I wouldn't have bought a brand new V8 and a KS18XL in the space of 3 months), and discovered there were more brands, more powerful wheels, etc. So I settled for the V8 because it seemed like the best candidate for my intended use (at that point in time). Enough range to go to the supermarket and back, enough power to tackle the hills (which it's dealt with incredibly well), enough speed to not outgrow it too fast (or so I thought...); twice the price of cheaper starter wheels, but at that point, it was an investment for my sanity's sake, so I didn't care about the money anymore. Then I learned to ride and...you know how the rest goes...

But what I mean to say via my example is that I ended up riding an EUC out of necessity and an odd set of personal circumstances and preferences. If I hadn't had my license revoked, I would have seen EUCs, and PEVs in general, as "expensive toys for people with plenty of cash to spend", and there's no way I would have spent that kind of money on an EUC (to me, they were extravagances that, price-wise, were beyond my budget for "a toy"). And having experience in balance sports (surfing, skiing, snow-boarding, etc), the learning curve, in my case, wasn't an issue...but that's definitely an added deterrent for other people in my age/socio-economic group.

So as @Marty Backe said, I really do think it's a niche thing: Young and enthusiastic but broke, or able to afford it but more cautious in terms of faceplants and breaking bones...

Having said that, there's definitely a growing interest. Today someone told me "wow, I'd only seen one of those in the movies" (so EUCs are going a bit more mainstream, and a lot of people can actually distinguish an e-scooter from "one of those things with one wheel that goes between your legs")

But all the same, the most common comment I hear (living in a small town, I'm he first EUC-rider most of the people I come across have ever seen) is "That thing is cool [+ insert environmental/practicality comments and whatnot], but it must be really hard to learn and dangerous".

So EUCs must be (at current prices) for "mature investors who are young of heart"   (or in my case, young & stupid enough to get a DUI, desperate enough to spend more than I can afford, and passionate (aka financially irresponsible) enough to indebt myself to get a second wheel that's WAY beyond my budget)

Will put an end to my soliloquy with a paragraph from a book (set in the early 1900s) that that made me smile today:

“You drove a car?” Elaine laughed. “Yourself?”
Gwyneira looked at her reproachfully. “And why not? I’ve always driven my own carriages. And believe me, compared to a cob stallion, an automobile is a lame duck.”
“We have one ourselves now. After Florence Biller drove past so proudly in hers, Tim could not resist. Roly is thrilled by the contraption, as are the boys. It’s a toy for men.”

 

 

 

Edited January 17, 2019 by travsformation