Where does EUC adoption come from?

[winterwheel]

My adoption was I needed a practical way get to work. I just happen to be in a spot where taking a bus is 45 minutes to an hour due to connections, and walking is pretty much the same. Driving a car that distance into downtown and paying for parking would be insane. I'm over biking, the logistics of storing a bike when I am not riding (both at work and at home) is too much of a pain. I was looking at maybe getting a heavy-duty hoverboard when EUC popped up as on option. It appeared to be the best option if I could master it, so I gave it a shot. On a good day, my commute is now 12 minutes.

Since I got it, our second car has been parked which is why I always say for some of us wheels are free. Average cost of a vehicle is $800/month all-in. For that I can buy a brand new MSX every three months, save a ton of time on my commutes, have great local recreational activities, and feel great about my impact on the environment to boot.

[LanghamP]

35 minutes ago, EUCMania said:

 

Now a 9B1 C or A1 cost only $<500, I am puzzled why not many people buy. Is $500 that big deal in USA?

Yes, about 4 out of 5 workers (40% of Americans) live paycheck to paycheck and do not even have $500 in case of an emergency. Personally I was in this situation a number of times in my twenties, due to poor planning and sheer laziness.

However, talking to younger people, there's an entirely ominous feeling to their hand to hand existence, that is, their poverty feels systemic compared to my laziness and carelessness.

Consider, my college debt was just a few thousand, paid off with a month or two of my first "real job", but your average Millennial has $36k in debt, not including a mortgage. Perhaps the 55% other so of Americans who do not work at all have the better idea.

[meepmeepmayer]

17 minutes ago, travsformation said:

Will put an end to my soliloquy with a paragraph from a book (set in the early 1900s) that that made me smile today:

Great post. And how do you even find such quotes. I know, it's kind of your job, but still impressive!

When's your 18XL finally coming? I am even getting impatient now.

[houseofjob]

4 hours ago, Girth Brooks said:

@Terenig I bought a pair of Ninebot miniPROs when they released. I was watching repair videos for mine on YouTube this past summer when I stumbled on a @houseofjob EUC video. I have been falling down the rabbit hole ever faster since.

Wow, very cool and humbling, thanks for that!

 

3 hours ago, Hakunas said:

I think the problem why we aren't seeing ecus everywhere is because people don't know what it is and how much better of a transportation vehicle it is than a bike, skateboard, or a scooter (i'm talking about city transport) Not a marketing specialist maybe some company will figure it out how to get to the people, like airwheel is trying with their adds and newbie friendly features like extra wheels or the 2 wheel model. I still wanna believe that ecus gonna be the future of transport in the cities.

This!!! I really want to give this point like 10 reps at least!

 

Who here grew up saying "man I can't wait until they invent electric-powered unicycles!"? 

 

Every other PEV has had the help of decades of culturally positive reinforcement in mass media from their manually rideable forefathers (boards, bicycles, etc.) In contrast, the EUC doesn't even resemble it's OG manual unicycle forefather, due to lack of the seat; nor has the OG unicycle been as close to a cultural icon as it's 2 & 4 wheeled cousins. It's not surprising that people have no clue what to call one, to be even able to look one up on YouTube!

But, mass EUC adoption is possible IMHO: we've already seen it happen with Paris! The key is exposure and appealing design (see the Apple effect); the uber-practicalities for most are secondary. Humans want to imitate cool things and look cool doing so. The EUC basically needs its Casey Neistat I think, as that was huge for Boosted Board sales and the e-boarding market in general. Will this happen? It remains to be seen. Also, it doesn't help that most all EUC companies are run by Chinese-run, and Asia, as a whole, lags far behind in marketing know-how compared to their Western counterparts (remember, capitalism is a fairly new thing in still-Communist China).

 

With my EUC adoption story, I've probably seen smatterings of over-priced EUCs in tech blogs over the years (SoloWheel, Ninebot, etc.), but it was the rise of Casey Neistat and Boosted board 3 years ago, along with my frustrations with my NYC commute (I'm not directly close to a subway line, and can sometimes walk faster than the nearest bus route), that had me weighing the electrified alternatives to my sweat-inducing rideables in my former kick scooter & Nickel skateboard.

Ultimately, the compact, take-it-with-you form factor and slick design of my first Ninebot One E+ won out! Which also led me to quickly ditch said Ninebot after a month for a KS-18A when I discovered the existence of more powerful and faster wheels!.... and it's been a wrap ever since! 

[Marty Backe]

19 minutes ago, travsformation said:

I completely agree EUCs will probably always be a niche (albeit a very devout one!). That explanation pretty much nailed it!

My particular case might be a good example. I'm in my mid-thirties and my acquisitive is a bit above the average for my age (for Spain); more than 20-30 year-olds', but not what we'd call rich/well off either. Riding an EUC was purely circumstantial for me. I had my driver's license temporarily revoked and live in a fairly remote residential area--the closest shops are about 7 km away. When my partner is at work, I'm pretty much stuck at home. I needed a means of transportation that didn't require a driving license, and there's no public transportation here. It's a VERY hilly area, so my mountain bike was hardly an option.

After several months of complete isolation, I was starting to go nuts and looking into alternatives. My first choice was an e-Bike, but they seemed too expensive (couldn't find anything decent below €1,500-2,000). Also, I don't have that much storage space so another bike wasn't the best option for me. I'd seen plenty of e-scooters in Barcelona, and thought they were kind of cool and looked like a practical way to commute, but never really considered them as a viable means of transportation. Maybe it's just because I've never liked scooters; I don't trust such small wheels (even on 125 cc scooters; grew up with dirt bikes, what can I say...). And hoverboards...just seemed like a joke.

All the same, e-scooters piqued my curiosity. So I looked up "electric scooter" on Amazon and one of the hits was a €500 Ninebot (I think it was an E+). I'd never seen or heard of EUCs before, but after reading the reviews, I was intrigued and checked out a few Youtube videos. And....that was it! It was 1/3 of the price of an e-bike, much more portable, wasn't an -e-scooter....my mind was made up, I was going to get an EUC.

So I did a little research (clearly not enough or I wouldn't have bought a brand new V8 and a KS18XL in the space of 3 months), and discovered there were more brands, more powerful wheels, etc. So I settled for the V8 because it seemed like the best candidate for my intended use (at that point in time). Enough range to go to the supermarket and back, enough power to tackle the hills (which it's dealt with incredibly well), enough speed to not outgrow it too fast (or so I thought...); twice the price of cheaper starter wheels, but at that point, it was an investment for my sanity's sake, so I didn't care about the money anymore. Then I learned to ride and...you know how the rest goes...

But what I mean to say via my example is that I ended up riding an EUC out of necessity and an odd set of personal circumstances and preferences. If I hadn't had my license revoked, I would have seen EUCs, and PEVs in general, as "expensive toys for people with plenty of cash to spend", and there's no way I would have spent that kind of money on an EUC (to me, they were extravagances that, price-wise, were beyond my budget for "a toy"). And having experience in balance sports (surfing, skiing, snow-boarding, etc), the learning curve, in my case, wasn't an issue...but that's definitely an added deterrent for other people in my age/socio-economic group.

So as @Marty Backe said, I really do think it's a niche thing: Young and enthusiastic but broke, or able to afford it but more cautious in terms of faceplants and breaking bones...

Having said that, there's definitely a growing interest. Today someone told me "wow, I'd only seen one of those in the movies" (so EUCs are going a bit more mainstream, and a lot of people can actually distinguish an e-scooter from "one of those things with one wheel that goes between your legs")

But all the same, the most common comment I hear (living in a small town, I'm he first EUC-rider most of the people I come across have ever seen) is "That thing is cool [+ insert environmental/practicality comments and whatnot], but it must be really hard to learn and dangerous".

So EUCs must be (at current prices) for "mature investors who are young of heart"   (or in my case, young & stupid enough to get a DUI, desperate enough to spend more than I can afford, and passionate (aka financially irresponsible) enough to indebt myself to get a second wheel that's WAY beyond my budget)

Will put an end to my soliloquy with a paragraph from a book (set in the early 1900s) that that made me smile today:

“You drove a car?” Elaine laughed. “Yourself?”
Gwyneira looked at her reproachfully. “And why not? I’ve always driven my own carriages. And believe me, compared to a cob stallion, an automobile is a lame duck.”
“We have one ourselves now. After Florence Biller drove past so proudly in hers, Tim could not resist. Roly is thrilled by the contraption, as are the boys. It’s a toy for men.”

Great story and a fun read. I wish I had been able to take up EUCs in my thirties. You're going to have so many more EUC years than me - unless you get a EUC DUI 

[travsformation]

Just now, meepmeepmayer said:

Great post. And how do you even find such quotes. I know, it's kind of your job, but still impressive!

When's your 18XL finally coming? I am even getting impatient now.

Thanks!

Actually, I didn't find that on purpose. It was in the book I was reading while having a beer and resting my feet during my test ride of the 18XL, which arrived yesterday

[LanghamP]

11 minutes ago, travsformation said:

Thanks!

Actually, I didn't find that on purpose. It was in the book I was reading while having a beer and resting my feet during my test ride of the 18XL, which arrived yesterday

So far the best story of 2019, of EUC ownership.

I thought the best story ever, concerning EUCs, was @Marty BackeBacke was him almost dying (in a very funny way) when his Monster was a bit hard to handle in the mountains.

[meepmeepmayer]

23 minutes ago, travsformation said:

Actually, I didn't find that on purpose. It was in the book I was reading while having a beer and resting my feet during my test ride of the 18XL, which arrived yesterday

Finally, congratulations! How about some shiny photos of your shiny new wheel in shiny exotic locations? How's the weather in Spain? Give us rain-/snow-locked (as in landlocked) people something

[Lutalo]

EUC adoption will continue to grow in number, but not in its proportion to the overall recreational electric mobility  market.

There are three primary barriers to entry: Cost, learning curve, fear of injury.

1. The wheels are pricey which force it into the realm of adult hobby and recreation. A younger demographic is usually without sufficient resources to take up the hobby even though they are an excellent potential market. Most youth who ride wheels are introduced to it by an affiliated adult who already rides or is learning. 

2. The learning curve: this is in my opinion the grandest hurdle, because it delays gratification. Most people expect immediate gratification from a purchase; Not so with wheels if you are a new rider as you must first learn to use what you have purchased.

It takes an adventurous person to be up for the challenge of learning to ride. Other electric mobility tools simply don't have to grapple with this challenge to the degree that EUCs must grapple with it. I personally feel like I learned to ride in about three days, but it took substantially longer for me to feel comfortable riding in every situation.

3. EUCs are fundamentally dangerous, and fear of injury will always deter some newcomers. Let's talk about the dismounts that pretty much everyone can expect to encounter at least once, usually several times especially while learning. EUCs are dangerous in the sense that pretty much any failure or malfunction in the wheels operation is catastrophic for the rider. Unlike our two or four-wheeled brethren, there is zero to very little inherent or engineered redundancy; one wheel so no backup anything. If the wheel fails during riding due to a mechanical, electrical or rider error, the rider will likely fall and possibly experience serious injury. 

Mechanically, EUCs are much more reliable these days, but not any safer. This means that while the likelihood of wheel failure is less, what will happen to the rider in the event of failure has not improved at all.

While the increased reliability of EUCs is reassuring for those of us who already ride, I doubt it will seriously impact a newcomer's point of view and diminish the fear of injury.

So, to wrap it up the three main barriers for new entrants in my view are price, learning curve, fear of injury.

Ironically, I think fear of injury is the most insignificant of the three barriers. I think price and learning difficulty/delayed gratification are the main barriers. 

While I do not believe the barriers can be eliminated, there are ways to mitigate them; guided instruction in safe environments, lower cost wheels, continued improvements in design and function,  greater reliability and the promotion of safe riding practices.

There will always be buyer's who will overcome these barriers somewhat immediately. but I doubt they will ever represent a market majority.

The number of EUC rider's is, and likely will continue increasing for some time, but the proportion of EUC rider's to other forms of electric powered transportation; especially e-scooters in a growing market will always be niche in comparison.

[Dave Frear]

All great points.  I fit into the niche of being an older guy that is a big kid inside.  When I first saw a EUC when the hoverboards were the craze here in California a few years back, my wife asked if I wanted a hoverboard for Christmas, I told her NO.  I want one of those unicycles.  But there wasn't/isn't a shop you can walk into and see one, so I didn't get one.

I ran across one (E+) for less that $400, without doing much research and got it.  Now the second one is on order (Z10).

But being a new rider, I can say, you have to accept falling down.  Most people aren't, and especially when you are talking new wheels that go over 25MPH.  No one want't to expect to fall at that speed.  Average folks don't expect to fall when they hop on a Bird scooter that goes 15MPH, because they are so easy to ride.  That is why they will ride/buy a scooter before a wheel.  And stores have scooters, because the average person can take it out in the parking lot and test ride if for 5 minutes.  You can't do that with a wheel, they will just fall down, and say " I will never learn to ride this thing".  My kids aren't even willing to give my wheel a try............

But I do tell everyone I talk to about it, that a wheel is what everyone thought the old Segway was going to be.  That it would revolutionize getting around.  Plus, ITS A BLAST TO RIDE!!!

[houseofjob]

IMHO, the cost thing is valid, but also not, if you see the droves of teen-to-20-something student-types buying their first PEV $1,400 USD Boosted Board, most of the time having never ridden a skateboard period. And top-flight, top-model eboards are much more expensive, when comparing range & performance stats, than our EUCs. If it's made desirable enough, people will buy it I think.

And I'm not sure of the 'more dangerous' factor. I have yet to hear of an EUC death (maybe serious injury, yes), but have heard of e-kick scooter and e-board related deaths. Now, yes, they have a larger sample size, but IMHO, those PEVs can get way more dangerous than EUCs, especially the e-boards. Our multi-PEV guys here in NYC say that for falls, EUCs are considerably safer than e-boards, at the least, due to the pedals keeping you level / self-balancing effect (vs. getting the rug pulled out from under you on an e-board fall). Additionally, EUC's have more of an inherent ability to carve on a dime to shave off speed (single tire-patch-to-pavement contact surface area), instead of having to solely rely on straight-line braking; whereas e-boards and e-kick scooters have more limited turning radius on sudden stops, necessitating the aforementioned straight-line braking.

[Marty Backe]

14 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

IMHO, the cost thing is valid, but also not, if you see the droves of teen-to-20-something student-types buying their first PEV $1,400 USD Boosted Board, most of the time having never ridden a skateboard period. And top-flight, top-model eboards are much more expensive, when comparing range & performance stats, than our EUCs. If it's made desirable enough, people will buy it I think.

And I'm not sure of the 'more dangerous' factor. I have yet to hear of an EUC death (maybe serious injury, yes), but have heard of e-kick scooter and e-board related deaths. Now, yes, they have a larger sample size, but IMHO, those PEVs can get way more dangerous than EUCs, especially the e-boards. Our multi-PEV guys here in NYC say that for falls, EUCs are considerably safer than e-boards, at the least, due to the pedals keeping you level / gyroscopic effect (vs. getting the rug pulled out from under you on an e-board fall). Additionally, EUC's have more of an inherent ability to carve on a dime to shave off speed (single tire-patch-to-pavement contact surface area), instead of having to solely rely on straight-line braking; whereas e-boards and e-kick scooters have more limited turning radius on sudden stops, necessitating the aforementioned straight-line braking.

Do you have much opportunity to chew the fat with the e-boarders?

Before buying the ACM I was going to dive into PEVs by buying a Boosted board. The only reason I didn't was the Boosted boards were never available to purpose (I wonder how much money they lost from their poor manufacturing throughput execution?). But even if I had gone down that path I think I still would have jumped ship to EUCs because of all the inherent advantages.

So I'm curious if we get many converts from the e-board community? Or is it that the two shall never mix?

[meepmeepmayer]

There is some kind of uncoolness/lack of knowledge or marketing about EUCs.

Lots of younger people get Onewheels or eboards, and these are indeed more expensive (overall, but especially if you compare what you get for the money - range, speed, etc). So why don't they go for EUCs? Maybe it's just lack of marketing. Boards and Onewheels have tons of great marketing, EUCs have the honorable but very small amount that Inmotion/Solowheel does.

Often it seems EUCs are seen as less "cool" as well. No idea why that is. Established coolness of board sports vs. something unknown?

[houseofjob]

3 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Do you have much opportunity to chew the fat with the e-boarders?

Before buying the ACM I was going to dive into PEVs by buying a Boosted board. The only reason I didn't was the Boosted boards were never available to purpose (I wonder how much money they lost from their poor manufacturing throughput execution?). But even if I had gone down that path I think I still would have jumped ship to EUCs because of all the inherent advantages.

So I'm curious if we get many converts from the e-board community? Or is it that the two shall never mix?

I'm friends with some of the NYC e-boarders, mainly the ones who have delved into EUCs.

Having seen plenty of the non-EUC e-boarder reactions, there clearly seems to be a stigma that is purely based on visuals / coolness factor (mind you, that whole crowd is primarily 20-to-30-somethings). Plus, with us and the OneWheelers, they often over-criticize the faceplant factor... but I'm pretty sure the coolness factor is the main reason.

The e-boarders who were open enough to try, learn, and buy EUCs, are usually the ones looking for more practicalities that e-boards cannot give them, like a.) the ability to ride in the rain, b.) the obvious bigger range, c.) the compactness factor, ie. not having to struggle to stow away a long a** board at your destination, and d.) the less sketchiness of rolling over crap streets on a much, much bigger tire. I've also seen the same justification from some e-kick scooter converts as well.

[houseofjob]

11 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Often it seems EUCs are seen as less "cool" as well. No idea why that is. Established coolness of board sports vs. something unknown?

This is where the Chinese do not help the cause of their products with videos like this 

 

[Marty Backe]

4 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

I'm friends with some of the NYC e-boarders, mainly the ones who have delved into EUCs.

Having seen plenty of the non-EUC e-boarder reactions, there clearly seems to be a stigma that is purely based on visuals / coolness factor (mind you, that whole crowd is primarily 20-to-30-somethings). Plus, with us and the OneWheelers, they often over-criticize the faceplant factor... but I'm pretty sure the coolness factor is the main reason.

The e-boarders who were open enough to try, learn, and buy EUCs, are usually the ones looking for more practicalities that e-boards cannot give them, like a.) the ability to ride in the rain, b.) the obvious bigger range, c.) the compactness factor, ie. not having to struggle to stow away a long a** board at your destination, and d.) the less sketchiness of rolling over crap streets on a much, much bigger tire. I've also seen the same justification from some e-kick scooter converts as well.

Interesting about the coolness factor. Based on the reactions that we all observe, an EUC has to get a lot more "cool" comments than e-boarders. I mean c'mon, it's an electric skateboard. Us on the other hand, "what the hell is that?"

I'm sure I'm just showing my bias though.

[Lutalo]

18 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

IMHO, the cost thing is valid, but also not, if you see the droves of teen-to-20-something student-types buying their first PEV $1,400 USD Boosted Board, most of the time having never ridden a skateboard period

The cost thing is valid, but like you I don't believe it to be the single most important factor. Rather, I think the learning curve/delayed gratification is the biggest issue for new learners.

I don't think that the esk8 buyers believe falling is as inherent in learning in the same way as it is with EUC. They still have four wheels on which to stand. Sometime ago I remember watching a video of a guy from Miami who rides a GW, out with an Esk8 crew. I recall one of the board dudes telling him that he was crazy for riding the EUC . I spent hours watching a friend learn on his boosted board. I watched him go from the first day of day of learning to commuting to work on it a couple of weeks later. I never saw him come off the board during his parking lot maneuvers.

31 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

And I'm not sure of the 'more dangerous' factor

In my post I am simply relating "danger" to a lack of redundancy in the wheels construction, and not relative to the outcomes of a fall across device types.

I think that a mechanical/electrical malfunction will more often result in a dismount/fall with an EUC than other devices. There's only one wheel and nothing to fall back on except your ass.

I hear you on the boosted boards though. I am still afraid of them. I might grow the gonads to get on one eventually, but for now I admire them from a distance.  

[Marty Backe]

7 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

This is where the Chinese do not help the cause of their products with videos like this 

 

I must say, some of those costumes are pretty cool. I wouldn't mind getting the one that looks like a sumo wrestler 

[houseofjob]

31 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Interesting about the coolness factor. Based on the reactions that we all observe, an EUC has to get a lot more "cool" comments than e-boarders. I mean c'mon, it's an electric skateboard. Us on the other hand, "what the hell is that?"

These comments are more fascination I think. Plus, to the untrained eye/ear, it's hard to tell manual kick-pushers vs e-boarders, unless you're trained to hear the motor noise, or note the remote in their hands (or lack of leg kick).

Adoption is a whole different thing. Many of my co-workers say "cool", but also say "I could never ride that", then proceed to complain about using crap mass transportation *smh.

Public perception is huge here I think. We've been trained for decades on the coolness of boarding from Hollywood. Not so for the clown-cycles we fly around in, or was that a Roomba vacuum? Briefcase? 

[meepmeepmayer]

There was a Verizon commercial (I believe) where a typical geeky guy riding a EUC was the comic relief ... "we're here even for that guy" in some other terms, essentially. So much for the public perception they picked up on.

I guess riding a EUC with the standing still and leaning forward (seemingly) awkwardly with your hands down in a rigid stance does not look too cool and more like constipated superman to most people.

[houseofjob]

6 minutes ago, Lutalo said:

Rather, I think the learning curve/delayed gratification is the biggest issue for new learners.

Yes this is very true.

But then I see the many NYC E-boarding group rides with a regular slew of beginner Boosted riders tripping over themselves anytime we catch any decent speed 

Public perception, and the general lack of education with EUC's (both learning, and familiarity), is a big factor I think.

 

9 minutes ago, Lutalo said:

I think that a mechanical/electrical malfunction will more often result in a dismount/fall with an EUC than other devices. There's only one wheel and nothing to fall back on except your ass.

Perhaps valid years prior, but outside of problematic wheels, I don't see too much of this happening with today's EUC tech.

 

[Alex_from_NZ]

From a need for speed.

It is my commuter, but realistically i could commute on anything.  The reality is  I bought a $3k unicycle to go fast on  

[houseofjob]

4 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

There was a Verizon commercial (I believe) where a typical geeky guy riding a EUC was the comic relief ... "we're here even for that guy" in some other terms, essentially. So much for the public perception they picked up on.

I guess riding a EUC with the standing still and leaning forward (seemingly) awkwardly with your hands down in a rigid stance does not look too cool and more like constipated superman to most people.

 

[Lutalo]

20 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

There is some kind of uncoolness/lack of knowledge or marketing about EUCs.

Lots of younger people get Onewheels or eboards, and these are indeed more expensive (overall, but especially if you compare what you get for the money - range, speed, etc). So why don't they go for EUCs? Maybe it's just lack of marketing. Boards and Onewheels have tons of great marketing, EUCs have the honorable but very small amount that Inmotion/Solowheel does.

Often it seems EUCs are seen as less "cool" as well. No idea why that is. Established coolness of board sports vs. something unknown?

With EUCs there are a lot of small companies with limited marketing budgets making the wheels.

If only middle-aged guys can afford to buy them as early adopters, they become the marketers. the college students @houseofjob mentioned are not going to blow financial aid refund checks on EUCs like they are boosted boards.

EUC companies often largely rely on grass roots social media marketing. Involving enthusiasts like us making videos about our experience. There are far marketing dollars behind these other devices. Even in larger companies with bigger budgets marketing pushes are not really allocated for EUCs because they are a small portion of the business. 

Middle aged men on one wheel riding through town may be seen as cool, cool; but not Awesome, cool by the youth as would be a 20 something guy leaping down staircases and riding stair rails with his board. Just check out the DC Sneakers ads; they are awesome. There are no EUC ads (in the west) that come close to competing with them in terms of manipulating public perception about our hobby. 

I think you are right a strategic marketing campaign could change a lot for EUCs. I just don't think that I see EUCs getting that sort of push in the near future.

[winterwheel]

I think y'all are over-complicating the issue. It's about marketing no more, no less. As far as I can tell there is zero marketing of euc's being done to anybody except existing wheel owners. OneWheels, scooters etc. different story. If someone makes a serious effort to do some marketing you will see more people pick it up, until then its going to be one person at a time and very slow adoption.