Henrik Olsen Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 KingSong KS-18L is ready for pre-order. Here's what we know and what we think! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circuitmage Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 50kph = 31mph. 2kW motor Sounds awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARPed1701D Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Nice round up video. Specs continue to sound good. Still looks pretty ugly and visually unbalanced from the side. I don't think 105km from a 1036Wh battery is even remotely realistic though for the average rider and use case. Almost all evidence from other machines suggest much less so that is a bit of a stretch to say it is realistic in the video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrd777 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 59 minutes ago, Circuitmage said: 50kph = 31mph. 2kW motor Sounds awesome. Im in! Lets get a preorder going @Jason McNeil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alien Rides Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 1 hour ago, WARPed1701D said: I don't think 105km from a 1036Wh battery is even remotely realistic though for the average rider and use case. Almost all evidence from other machines suggest much less so that is a bit of a stretch to say it is realistic in the video. In my experience KS EUCs are really efficient with their batteries. I bet this is competitive with the 1600wh Gotways, and the specs are saying it should be as well. Of course we'll have to do some actual road tests with heavier/larger riders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARPed1701D Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 32 minutes ago, Kevin Grandon said: In my experience KS EUCs are really efficient with their batteries. I bet this is competitive with the 1600wh Gotways, and the specs are saying it should be as well. Of course we'll have to do some actual road tests with heavier/larger riders. Several KS18S riders on here with 1600Wh batteries have indicated low range considering the capacity and they would have a hard time getting 105km from their wheels. I'm not saying their experience is typical or that it is impossible to get 105km from 1036Wh but it would be a hard push even for the most efficient wheels given usual consumption figures. Using my consumption of 22Wh per mile on my V8 (which I think is a typical consumption level) I say 70 to 75km is about right for 1036Wh. A few riders may get more, many will get less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanghamP Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Are wheels that state they are a certain wh, actually that wh? How would one be able to measure their wheel's wh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 70 kilometers is 43 miles. That would be 3 solid hours at about 15mph. Not many people can do that or would want to. The more important aspect of the bigger battery is reserve power, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evel_Knievel Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 9 minutes ago, LanghamP said: Are wheels that state they are a certain wh, actually that wh? How would one be able to measure their wheel's wh? I think you can generally believe the wh ratings given. It can be measured while charging using things like a charge doctor. After all an old battery will not have the same wh capacity as a new one. Range estimates on the other hand are complete BS IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARPed1701D Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 45 minutes ago, LanghamP said: Are wheels that state they are a certain wh, actually that wh? How would one be able to measure their wheel's wh? Generally, I think yes. Barring manufacturing tolerances in cell production I think you get what you pay for in the machine and unless it has sat on the shelf for a very long time or in very inhospitable storage conditions cell aging is likely not an issue. Is all of that capacity usable? No. Using the Charge Doctor I monitored a complete charge of my V8 from 0% (forced shutdown) to 0.05A charger current and it only accepted 420Wh of the 480Wh capacity it actually has (12.5% less). It makes sense of course that, given our potential for very high current demands and the general rule of Li-Ion having a reduced capacity to supply high currents at low charge conditions, our wheels do not sip the cells empty. The V8 shuts down at 3.4V pack voltage whereas LG measure the capacity by sipping it to 2.5V, a voltage that would never be usable to us. 38 minutes ago, steve454 said: 70 kilometers is 43 miles. That would be 3 solid hours at about 15mph. Not many people can do that or would want to. The more important aspect of the bigger battery is reserve power, isn't it? For some yes. For others a a 70km ride is not abnormal. I'm in the former group. I would like a large cell pack for 2 reasons. 1. More parallel packs to spread current demands over (less chance of faceplant and more forgiving operation in cold weather) 2. The ability to operate the wheel within a charge range that results in minimal cell wear (75% to 25%) and still have a reasonable mileage for general use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranium Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 I agree @WARPed1701D, This wheel is not for the casual rider. It is more for the commuter or adventure rider. And for those getting it without the need of the long range can more easily baby their batteries if they choose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 3 hours ago, WARPed1701D said: For some yes. For others a a 70km ride is not abnormal. I'm in the former group. I would like a large cell pack for 2 reasons. 1. More parallel packs to spread current demands over (less chance of faceplant and more forgiving operation in cold weather) 2. The ability to operate the wheel within a charge range that results in minimal cell wear (75% to 25%) and still have a reasonable mileage for general use. Warped has brought it to the point!!! Why....Please, why cant Kingsong listen to their customers and fans and just let us decide what we want? With offering a 1600wh Version AND a 1036wh... And to get it right: NO, i seldom do any ride in one piece which are more than 50km. So for just alone the range a 1036wh would do it for me also. So why do i need a bigger battery? There are several aspects. - Safety!!! More parallel packs means less stress to the battery! Means less voltdrop! Means longer battery life! - Not reload that often!!! With my 18S 1680wh i charge about once a week...i have it now since July 2017 and charged exactly 29 times! From this 29 times only 5 times i charged to 100%, and the rest was up to 90% only! 1750km now.....with a 840wh that would be Minimum 60 times now...if not more because of beeing afraid to run into low battery! So i guess parameter wise my 18S battery is in TOP form now! i can not stress enough that you will NOT operate ANY of our battery packs under 25-30%.... They have a much more of a voltdrop at that stage, can only deliver the needed amps under much more stress etc etc etc. So FOR ME a bigger battery is all about safety, life prolonging and and and. Yes, for 80% of my rides a 1000w battery would be enough...but i do NOT want to charge after each ride, i do not want to reach lower battery levels and so on and so on.... And i am not saying KS should only deliver a 1600wh battery...Nope....But please, KS, let the people/buyer choose what they want! A 1600wh version only would need to have each side of the 18L only 1,5cm wider (design like on 14S). Sometimes i really dont understand the mentality of the EUC bosses..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 24 minutes ago, KingSong69 said: Warped has brought it to the point!!! Why....Please, why cant Kingsong listen to their customers and fans and just let us decide what we want? With offering a 1600wh Version AND a 1036wh... And to get it right: NO, i seldom do any ride in one piece which are more than 50km. So for just alone the range a 1036wh would do it for me also. So why do i need a bigger battery? There are several aspects. - Safety!!! More parallel packs means less stress to the battery! Means less voltdrop! Means longer battery life! - Not reload that often!!! With my 18S 1680wh i charge about once a week...i have it now since July 2017 and charged exactly 29 times! From this 29 times only 5 times i charged to 100%, and the rest was up to 90% only! 1750km now.....with a 840wh that would be Minimum 60 times now...if not more because of beeing afraid to run into low battery! So i guess parameter wise my 18S battery is in TOP form now! i can not stress enough that you will NOT operate ANY of our battery packs under 25-30%.... They have a much more of a voltdrop at that stage, can only deliver the needed amps under much more stress etc etc etc. So FOR ME a bigger battery is all about safety, life prolonging and and and. Yes, for 80% of my rides a 1000w battery would be enough...but i do NOT want to charge after each ride, i do not want to reach lower battery levels and so on and so on.... And i am not saying KS should only deliver a 1600wh battery...Nope....But please, KS, let the people/buyer choose what they want! A 1600wh version only would need to have each side of the 18L only 1,5cm wider (design like on 14S). Sometimes i really dont understand the mentality of the EUC bosses..... Good points throughout. When I see all the EUC videos made in Asia it's clear to me that a ~1000wh battery wheel for them is probably the equivalent of a 1600wh wheel for us. The stature of the vast majority of the Asian riders is very small compared to us Western riders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adel Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 There's reportedly already higher battery version of the Ks18l in the works ? King Song will likely do the same thing as it did with the Ks14d and Ks14s. So just have to be patient until the "ks18ls" comes out. There simply is too much demand for it from user community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, Adel said: There's reportedly already higher battery version of the Ks18l in the works ? King Song will likely do the same thing as it did with the Ks14d and Ks14s. So just have to be patient until the "ks18ls" comes out. There simply is too much demand for it from user community. We anticipate that the 18L wheel that everyone (maybe not everyone) wants will be released in early 2019. Of course it will be very reliable with all the safety features enabled, so the wait will be worth it. Meanwhile, Gotway, Inmotion, and Ninebot will have release a couple additional generations of wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryman Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 10 hours ago, WARPed1701D said: Still looks pretty ugly and visually unbalanced from the side It looks like a canvas for big stickers or a wrap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adel Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 2 hours ago, Marty Backe said: We anticipate that the 18L wheel that everyone (maybe not everyone) wants will be released in early 2019. Of course it will be very reliable with all the safety features enabled, so the wait will be worth it. Meanwhile, Gotway, Inmotion, and Ninebot will have release a couple additional generations of wheels. I'm not waiting on KS18L or any other wheel. I don't see a suitable upgrade to my Msuper v3s+ among the new wheels. Maybe Gotway will surprise us later this year, who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
who_the Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 4 hours ago, Adel said: I'm not waiting on KS18L or any other wheel. I don't see a suitable upgrade to my Msuper v3s+ among the new wheels. Maybe Gotway will surprise us later this year, who knows. Let's be clear: For all the well-deserved criticism Gotway receives over uneven, even negligent, build quality and QC – both of which have appear to have somewhat improved – their products have consistently fueled innovation and "moved the window" among all EUC manufacturers. Gotway has pushed higher battery capacity, speed, and voltage since the original ACM and certainly the MSuper V3 and Monster. I'm pretty sure the next generation will continue that trend with 100v, ~2000wh packs, and 65+ kph wheels. Though I'm intrigued by the Z10 and 18L, and may end up adding one of these 1000wh contenders to my stable, I think the MSV4 and/or 20-inch are likely the wheels to unlock new frontiers: 100-mile daily rides, or extended excursions of multiple days into Northern California's remote regions, and elsewhere. And, as others have put it so wisely, provide the safety "overhead" of extra speed and battery capacity that, even untapped, adds a sense of security for those of us who push our wheels hard in complicated urban riding situations and need to know exactly what we can expect and that our wheels can deliver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Henley Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 9 hours ago, Adel said: I'm not waiting on KS18L or any other wheel. I don't see a suitable upgrade to my Msuper v3s+ among the new wheels. Maybe Gotway will surprise us later this year, who knows. I was waiting on the 18L until I heard it was being pushed back a few more months. I’m pretty impatient so don’t think I am going to wait that long. Overall all impression of the V3s+? That’s the wheel I’m really considering now. All the talk of oscillation and cut outs scare me a bit though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARPed1701D Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 23 minutes ago, Scott Henley said: All the talk of oscillation and cut outs scare me a bit though. Oscillation was fixed over 6 months ago. Not an issue if buying new from a reputable dealer. MOSFETS blowing and melted motor connectors are the biggest Gotway safety issue now (other than self inflicted injuries through excessive speed or riding through the 80% alarm with tiltback turned off). The MOSFETS seem to be a bit of a crap shoot. The motor connectors will likely only be a problem if you are either a very heavy person or try to ride the wheel over demanding terrain for long periods. If safety is a concern then just wait it out for the KingSong. If the build quality matches the S series it will be reliable and safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 7 hours ago, who_the said: Let's be clear: For all the well-deserved criticism Gotway receives over uneven, even negligent, build quality and QC – both of which have appear to have somewhat improved – their products have consistently fueled innovation and "moved the window" among all EUC manufacturers. Gotway has pushed higher battery capacity, speed, and voltage since the original ACM and certainly the MSuper V3 and Monster. I'm pretty sure the next generation will continue that trend with 100v, ~2000wh packs, and 65+ kph wheels. Though I'm intrigued by the Z10 and 18L, and may end up adding one of these 1000wh contenders to my stable, I think the MSV4 and/or 20-inch are likely the wheels to unlock new frontiers: 100-mile daily rides, or extended excursions of multiple days into Northern California's remote regions, and elsewhere. And, as others have put it so wisely, provide the safety "overhead" of extra speed and battery capacity that, even untapped, adds a sense of security for those of us who push our wheels hard in complicated urban riding situations and need to know exactly what we can expect and that our wheels can deliver. Amen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason McNeil Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 I took some drone footage of the same prototype that was demonstrated in October, as mid-January there is still only one 18L in existence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Henley Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 31 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said: I took some drone footage of the same prototype that was demonstrated in October, as mid-January there is still only one 18L in existence. The wait continues. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 4 hours ago, Jason McNeil said: I took some drone footage of the same prototype that was demonstrated in October, as mid-January there is still only one 18L in existence. Did I miss one of your postings??? What are your impressions of the 18L? It looks very big compared to the MSuper - probably because they just scaled up an existing shell, or so it appears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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