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Safest EUC?

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On 2/13/2018 at 6:20 PM, Jason McNeil said:

Product brand reliability is definitely a point-in-time & model question. I can attest that while King Song has been pretty good with their 16S/18S, but there have been a few recent incidents of sloppy assembly & poor QC result in DoAs from the factory. To a Distributor, getting a Wheel from the factory that does not work is utterly unacceptable, because it's a demonstration of two failures: the first is that there's fault somewhere in the production process; secondly, perhaps more importantly, that the QC was side-stepped. 

One of the cases that illustrates this was with a 18S where the Customer reported he was not able to charge it beyond 58v. We did the logical steps to troubleshoot like sending out a replacement charger, same. He then shipped the Wheel back, I tested the pack, which was fine; then, the charging port, also fine; opened up the fuse junction box to see if anything was mis-wired in there. Finally, I swapped out the board & the Wheel was able to charge. The root cause was that in the 18S, the charging input is now feed into the control-board, where a reverse diode resides, & somewhere in the circuitry it was giving resistance from 67.2v to 58v. When presented with the evidence, King Song claimed to never have seen this problem before. We shipped the Customer out another 18S, which had exactly the same fault!!! Joey trekked up to LA to test charging the remaining 25x 18Ss, all were able to fully charge. So the fact that this particular Customer received two Wheels with the same fault is quite the statistical anomaly. 

In my experience, although Gotway has had a more chequered history of their product development, they have been a lot more responsive in helping their Dealers/Customers with parts. In the above mentioned case, King Song refused to send me any replacement 18S boards, released the half-baked App which cannot be registered the same day & then took the next three weeks off :angry:

One of the topics I hinted at on another thread are that Gotway are working on a new board, they're testing out a MOSFET with a spec of 1000A peak, 300A sustained, this should make it virtually indestructible.

  

not so much of an anomoly because my ks-18s 1680wh only charges to 90% and my ks-16s only charges to 94%. just started using them so hardly any charge cycles. i won’t be buying kingsong again after this experience and reading how they treat their usa dealer. 

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Gotways have got way too many problems, but I'll keep riding them/whatever wheel is fastest until I have a major injury :) People seem to have constant failures with Gotways, including cracked shells, loose axle nuts, broken shims, burnt wires, burned out mosfets, etc. Maybe we're just crazier up here, or the hills put more stress on the wheels.

Inmotion and KingSong wheels seem to be the safest, at least within our circle of riders in the bay.

 

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the one that wont cutout, lol

but seriously, there should be a mechanism that prevents your from pushing you the wheel over its limit to save you from falling/ cutout.

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Unfortunately its not possible by design :(

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On ‎13‎-‎2‎-‎2018 at 5:35 PM, KingSong69 said:

So that didn't seam to be the best wheel, too, or?

On all brands there are for sure "monday" wheels and single examples of failure, so your personal experience  sure maybe that your Gotway is safer than your your KS.....

yeah, I probably had a "Monday-gotway" (an there are/were more of them around should have been). The point is that I fixed it, and knowing the insides of both my KS and my GW, I do not jump to the conclusions that KS is safer.

Statistically, the KS may be ahead, but I expect GW to is now more meticulous in assembling their machines (I do not know so). 

I am not saying that I know what the safer wheel is. I think I minded the "KS-is-better-for-sure-tone" of your message.

I DO KNOW, that I like riding my Gotway more then riding my KS, and that is a quality of the wheel in itself :) And if the safest wheel is the one you are not riding, then my KS definitely is the safer wheel.

To conclude: I do not want to start a religious brand war. I am not an expert in hardware and electronic circuitry, and I cannot offer an objective safety comparison.  KingSongs are great machines. Gotways are great machines. Be safe riding whatever brand you are on.

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2 hours ago, johrhoj said:

yeah, I probably had a "Monday-gotway" (an there are/were more of them around should have been). The point is that I fixed it, and knowing the insides of both my KS and my GW, I do not jump to the conclusions that KS is safer.

Statistically, the KS may be ahead, but I expect GW to is now more meticulous in assembling their machines (I do not know so). 

I am not saying that I know what the safer wheel is. I think I minded the "KS-is-better-for-sure-tone" of your message.

I DO KNOW, that I like riding my Gotway more then riding my KS, and that is a quality of the wheel in itself :) And if the safest wheel is the one you are not riding, then my KS definitely is the safer wheel.

To conclude: I do not want to start a religious brand war. I am not an expert in hardware and electronic circuitry, and I cannot offer an objective safety comparison.  KingSongs are great machines. Gotways are great machines. Be safe riding whatever brand you are on.

Well said :thumbup:

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I was the "1%" person that got a bad KS16S. Even with a bad controller board and having less than 3 months experience on EUC's it did not cause an injury to me, even though the wheel would go into a strange fit.

However, having purchased it from a good dealer, the situation was resolved and I really love the KS16S. It has a lot of great features. 

I also started out saying I did not need to go that fast and though 12mph might be ok. But within a couple hours I realized that 12mph is WAY too slow. And now, after about 9 months of riding, I am starting to feel that 22 mph is quite manageable. That need for speed does kick in. :)

 

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38 minutes ago, Circuitmage said:

I also started out saying I did not need to go that fast and though 12mph might be ok

What's wrong with y...

38 minutes ago, Circuitmage said:

But within a couple hours I realized that 12mph is WAY too slow.

.. oh, good.

38 minutes ago, Circuitmage said:

And now, after about 9 months of riding, I am starting to feel that 22 mph is quite manageable. That need for speed does kick in. :)

Yep:efee612b4b:

Only reason I still have the default 30km/h beep in my ACM is because I don't have a full face helmet yet (one of these days, I will). After that, the only beep remaining will be the 35km/h second default one.

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44 minutes ago, Circuitmage said:

 

I also started out saying I did not need to go that fast and though 12mph might be ok. But within a couple hours I realized that 12mph is WAY too slow. And now, after about 9 months of riding, I am starting to feel that 22 mph is quite manageable. That need for speed does kick in. :)

 

Glad you got your 16S sorted out, I’ve had great luck with mine and I enjoy it a lot.

I hear you on the speed thing, I wanted something faster than my full size Segway i2.....it’s so stable that 12 mph just seems way too slow...........the EUC(s) sure solved that problem.  I still goof around on the Segway, and it’s great for carrying groceries or other items that would be had to carry on a wheel, but the wheels can’t be beat for the fun and challenge.

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i might be new to these wheels but being born and raised on a cattle ranch, i have a pretty good handle on falling. this afternoon riding in the pasture, which is the most fun and great workout on the ks-18s, i wear zero safety protection. i hit a whopping 9 mph. any faster and i’m airborne. cow turds are about like jumping a curb. on my driveway, and i hit 17mph, wearing skateboard helmet, dainese motorcycle gloves and wrist protectors. i suppose if u wore a full face, shoulder pads, elbow pads, back support etc etc etc and have good health insurance, aflac, a job u can take time off of, somebody to nurse u back to health, etc etc etc. go faster than 15mph. i’ve not experienced a cut off or cut out, thankfully, so i have no idea what that fall is like. i’ve fallen from horses going faster, from higher up but on dirt. i think if the wheel doesn’t shut down, i can survive a spill at up to 15 mph. i’ll get hurt but probably won’t need medical attention( maybe stitches) or be laid up so i can’t take care of my 70+ animals. while i’m riding, i’m constantly analyzing how i think i’d survive a cut out at whatever speed i’m at. i’m almost 64, but i’m pretty brawny at 6’ 190- 200 pounds, and i have a pretty strenuous non paying job. i know from my motorcycles, the more u suit up, the braver u are. if i was advising somebody on safety gear, i’d say, ride ur wheel naked at whatever speed u felt safe, make note of it, and then put on clothes and safety gear and keep the same speed. motorcycles are different, u have to go fast sometimes, these things u don’t. since me and the doctors thought i only had 3 months to live back in 2014, i stopped buying health insurance. i don’t like doctors or big pharma and i don’t want to give them any of my money. riding alone is safer than group rides. we macho men have a tendency to show off. so safest euc for me is, all i need is power but not speed. 15mph is plenty.

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it depends a lot about what youre gonna use it for..

gotways are a lot better for reserve power going over bumps and hills and whenever you might need extra power. a gotway is for you (just dont ride full speed) gw wheels also have very stable riding modes making bumps dissapear (experience comes from the tesla)  but they do have a failrate of 3% wich is way too high  that means 3% chance that your wheel wont work when you get it... but if you find a good seller you might reduce those 3 by a lot

 

a kingsong is good if you ride flat terrain and dont hit the speedlimit then the fail rate is very low unlike a gotway wich has the 3 percent chance.. but a kingsong also has a failrate.. so you arent safe neceserily.. 

especially the ks16 and  ks14 doesnt have the reserve power that gotway has exept the ks18 but it is very big and not for everyone. and has some rough tiltback once you reach the limit

 

to be honest i dont think ks18 riding mode is as "stable" as the gotway tesla but it also makes for a more agile feel.. but you do feel bumps a lot more than the gw tesla

. now the ks16.. it has good performance compared to ninebot. but it lacks power for rougher terrain or other situations where you need it 

 

ninebot is probably the safest and rides slow, and is pretty safe as long as you dont challenge it with rough terrain

 

my personal list on safety for my needs is probably.

 

1. gotway

2. kingsong

3. ninebot

gotway as number one?? you said it had fail rate of 3 percent..  but for my needs i need some good power reserves to power over bumps isnce i ride on rough terrain and i weigh about 85 kg

and the stable ride mode for me works the best because it evens out any bumps or any other things

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