kjon12 Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 3 hours ago, JerryR said: I've even taken it from Belltown to Bellevue Square and back on a single charge with juice left over (27 miles). Did you go over the I-90 bridge? I live in Bellevue and was thinking about going the other way at some point in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryR Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 1 hour ago, maltocs said: Well, you forgot to include be over 200 lbs and then maybe a little cheated. I suppose I could move to Seattle but I'd feel cheated by the 159 days of rain you guys get every year. ? We definitely get cheated out of sunshine here but today was 88 F. and I just did a 14 mile trip up and down some pretty steep hills. Still no overheat/overload. Maybe the V10F is a "weightist" and doesn't like little guys. LOL I'm 220+ lbs and don't feel cheated at all. ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryR Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 (edited) @kjon12 No. I went over the 520 Bridge. I've done it twice so far. Both times in beautiful weather with no wind. I imagine the I-90 bridge would be nice as well. Edited July 30, 2018 by JerryR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, maltocs said: Well, you forgot to include be over 200 lbs and then maybe a little cheated. I suppose I could move to Seattle but I'd feel cheated by the 159 days of rain you guys get every year. ? Not so much the rain as the 45-55 degrees and high humidity. Course you can ride with your hands in your pockets on an EUC. Edited July 30, 2018 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastmike Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 (edited) 12 hours ago, em1barns said: They are not old components. LG MH1 batteries are already used on v8 and INMOTION is procuring batteries that can be sourced easily not to delay any production. The top end batteries used by some KS and gotway wheels have slightly higher capacities, but are sometimes in shortage due to high demand. As for the mosfets, it’s more a question of design and sizing. TO-247 are much more expensive, and beyond price, they may have undersized mosfet/heatsink for the system. I believe that to be part of the problem! Applying the same design from a 800W motor to a 2000W motor does not seem very logical to me as you might expect much more heat to be generated. So might be not surprizing IM faces overheat issues! As a consequence, they do have to be very conservative to avoid their TO-220 to melt down, even if they argue this to be for 'safety'... they have no other choice! About the price, TO-247 are more expensive than TO-220, that is true, but in big quantity, we are speaking about few bucks difference, so I will have been ready to pay $20 more for the wheel to get something not overheating, won't you? ? Edited July 30, 2018 by Fastmike 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBIKER_SURFER Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, Fastmike said: About the price, TO-247 are more expensive than TO-220, that is true, but in big quantity, we are speaking about few bucks difference, so I will have been ready to pay $20 more for the wheel to get something not overheating, don't you? ? For sure - the wheel is too expensive in EU anyway - compared to Russian price ? - a few € more wuoldn' t care! Edited July 30, 2018 by MBIKER_SURFER 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palachzzz Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, MBIKER_SURFER said: For sure - the wheel is too expensive in EU anyway - compared to Russian price ? - a few € more wuoldn' care! Guys, You can buy new "right" FETs solder it instead stock and try it. Actually TO-247 better conduct heat from crystal to heatsink, but don't change the heat dissipation itself. So if anyone knows which FETs used in V10, we can try to find better one) For example in V8 is used IRFB4110PBF FET, and it is not so easy to find better than that. Actually in Russia not so warm, and most of our riders doesn't know about "overload problem" Edited July 30, 2018 by palachzzz 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post em1barns Posted July 30, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 30, 2018 6 minutes ago, palachzzz said: Guys, You can buy new "right" FETs solder it instead stock and try it. Actually TO-247 better conduct heat from crystal to radiator, but don't change the heat dissipation itself. So if anyone knows which FETs used in V10, we can try to find better one) For example in V8 is used IRFB4110PBF FET, and it is not so easy to find better than that. Actually in Russia not so warm, and most of our riders doesn't know about "overload problem" I think the issue with overheat is a global issue, where one has to look at the overall MOSFET / board layout / heatsink connection / heatsink size and position. Changing a single component in the system won't probably solve the issue. I also think they will not be able to fix it by firmware tuning, but I hope for them and buyers they prove me wrong. In any case, safety measures coming too soon is better than failure, so they had their priorities done properly. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
440hz Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 Does someone know if there is a possibility to know from which batch a V10 is coming from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBIKER_SURFER Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 1 hour ago, 440hz said: Does someone know if there is a possibility to know from which batch a V10 is coming from? I think, actually it doesn't make any difference! But if you are not riding steep hills, don't bother. The riding of the V10 is topp. The overheat issue ist due to riding offroad steep hills. I didn't have it at all. And quite a few other riders are also really satisfied. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post UniVehje Posted July 30, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 30, 2018 59 minutes ago, MBIKER_SURFER said: I think, actually it doesn't make any difference! But if you are not riding steep hills, don't bother. The riding of the V10 is topp. The overheat issue ist due to riding offroad steep hills. I didn't have it at all. And quite a few other riders are also really satisfied. And long. Steep is ok in itself. The hill must be very long also. In any normal conditions it’s not a problem for vast majority of riders. And if it happens, it’s not dangerous. The wheel is just protecting itself. Just turn it off and on again and you can continue. I had one overload on saturday. We were riding a hilly terrain fast and on one long and steep hill I wanted to test if I could go up even faster. I found a technique to push more and the wheel just accelerated right past the MSX at the steepest part and right on top of the hill it said ”overload, please step off.” A quick off/on cycle was enough. There’s no way it would cool that fast. That makes me think the wheel is just too careful with this. (Or maybe this wheel can be pushed harder because of the large pedals?) The good part is that this is the right behaviour. No need to worry about anything being destroyed or safety issues. It has enough safety margin to protect itself and enough torque left for tiltback. It’s just a bit too early for those riders who are heavier and enjoy riding long hills. Definitely not where it should be but not a disaster either. Everything else on this wheel is great! Build quality and ride feel are first class. ? 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
440hz Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 1 hour ago, MBIKER_SURFER said: I think, actually it doesn't make any difference! But if you are not riding steep hills, don't bother. The riding of the V10 is topp. The overheat issue ist due to riding offroad steep hills. I didn't have it at all. And quite a few other riders are also really satisfied. Yes, agreed. It is just to know... I am interested to know from which batch a wheel has been produced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystic Traveller Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 52 minutes ago, UniVehje said: Build quality and ride feel are first class. Concur with you on that, mate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthPeter Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 On 7/29/2018 at 9:12 PM, Fastmike said: Overheating on flat terrain with a 76Kg user??? This is getting worse! 35°C in more than common in Summer. What is that wheel built for? Going downhill in autumn, but not if it rains? ? Sounds bad ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Nils Posted August 1, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted August 1, 2018 (edited) I've now been able to put some mileage on my V10F since getting it last Saturday. I bought it under the hopeful assumption that I wouldn't be affected by the overheating issue since I don't expect to climb any real mountains and live in Sweden with it's typically colder climate (and since the alternatives were discounted for one reason or another). Reading peoples' reports is one thing but it's always more interesting to see for oneself what the limits are. Weighing in at between 85-90 kilos with gear I'm in the weight class where this could potentially be an issue, so I was worried that this would ruin things. Well, early days yet but I'm happy to say that this doesn't seem to be the case I haven't had any issue so for, and I just finished a forest road trip of around 1 and half hour or so. Some flat riding, but also periods (e.g. 5-10 minutes) riding a steady incline and shorter periods (e.g.1-2 minutes) of steeper climbing, without any issues. I'm not happy that the issue exists, and I would like Inmotion to address this in some way, but it hasn't limited me so far. That issue aside I'm really growing fond of the wheel. Coming from the KS16 it was definitely a different feel originally - more stiff and stable cruising compared to the aggressive and more sensitive KS16. I'm now riding the 2.2.8 firmware in comfort mode, and have currently the pedal sensitivity set to 50% which provides a nice, smooth but playful riding experience. The KS16 now seems very flimsy and small when I ride it - I definitely got used to the V10F fast. Riding one-legged is something I can apparently do on the V10F, but which I hadn't done on the KS16 and which proved hard when I tried it, so maneuverability it's necessarily worse even though the riding experience in general is more stable. I let my brother borrow the KS16 for learning how to ride and we went for a cruise after that, and riding alongside I realized how happy I am not to have to put up with the KS whining noise.. In short, I'm very happy so far with the wheel.. Edited August 1, 2018 by Nils 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBIKER_SURFER Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 10 minutes ago, Nils said: I realized how happy I am not to have to put up with the KS whining noise.. In short, I'm very happy so far with the wheel.. Full understanding of that - I'm happy, that my dealer tool the KS 16 back. Commentary: All wheels have this noise - which is definitely not true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post maltocs Posted August 2, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted August 2, 2018 TWENTY-EIGHT OVERLOADS V10F In the California desert on the I-15 freeway, beginning at Baker, CA (entrance to Death Valley) major car manufacturers do heat/stress tests on their wrapped up secret cars on the 50 mile uphill stretch at the hottest spot in North America. EUC Manufactures need to do the same. Well, @Bobwheel, I've done it for you with the InMotion V10F firmware 2.2.8. Today, I attempted to climb the 9 mile/4500 elevation Mt Wilson Toll Road. I didn't make it due to extensive overloads, I gave up and went back down the hill after abour 5.8 miles. HERE IS THE DATA Inmotion V10F, Firmware 2.2.8, Comfort Mode Rider Weight 205 lb, Air Temp 90F Distance Up per Inmotion App - 5.8 miles Altitude Climbed per Garmin GPS Watch / Relive: 3009 ft The spreadsheet you can send your engineers can be found here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pkJHSlUypXWwVALSNeAbRrx_s4nYjyW8_6t8HARBhrg/edit?usp=sharing The source data (screenshot of the InMotion App) can be found here: https://photos.app.goo.gl/sYYzVtEX1z27xwiA7 Relive Graphic based on Garmin GPS Watch can be found here: https://www.relive.cc/view/g23272876565 6 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 (edited) 53 minutes ago, maltocs said: TWENTY-EIGHT OVERLOADS V10F In the California desert on the I-15 freeway, beginning at Baker, CA (entrance to Death Valley) major car manufacturers do heat/stress tests on their wrapped up secret cars on the 50 mile uphill stretch at the hottest spot in North America. EUC Manufactures need to do the same. Well, @Bobwheel, I've done it for you with the InMotion V10F firmware 2.2.8. Today, I attempted to climb the 9 mile/4500 elevation Mt Wilson Toll Road. I didn't make it due to extensive overloads, I gave up and went back down the hill after abour 5.8 miles. HERE IS THE DATA Inmotion V10F, Firmware 2.2.8, Comfort Mode Rider Weight 205 lb, Air Temp 90F Distance Up per Inmotion App - 5.8 miles Altitude Climbed per Garmin GPS Watch / Relive: 3009 ft The spreadsheet you can send your engineers can be found here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pkJHSlUypXWwVALSNeAbRrx_s4nYjyW8_6t8HARBhrg/edit?usp=sharing The source data (screenshot of the InMotion App) can be found here: https://photos.app.goo.gl/sYYzVtEX1z27xwiA7 Relive Graphic based on Garmin GPS Watch can be found here: https://www.relive.cc/view/g23272876565 Wow, very cool Scot. And I must say, you're a glutton for punishment, to subject yourself to 28 overloads. And every few minutes! Not good, and not impressive for the 2.2.8 firmware. I don't think you were overloading that much when we did the trip. Somehow I don't think you're going to make this trip again in the V10F. BTW, I bet the MCM5 could make it this far. Would be interesting for you to experience the same route without having to stop. I wonder if Inmotion will bother to use your data? Edited August 2, 2018 by Marty Backe 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Svanfelt Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 26 minutes ago, maltocs said: TWENTY-EIGHT OVERLOADS V10F DATA Inmotion V10F, Firmware 2.2.8, Comfort Mode Rider Weight 205 lb, Air Temp 90F Distance Up per Inmotion App - 5.8 miles Altitude Climbed per Garmin GPS Watch / Relive: 3009 ft The spreadsheet you can send your engineers can be found here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pkJHSlUypXWwVALSNeAbRrx_s4nYjyW8_6t8HARBhrg/edit?usp=sharing The source data (screenshot of the InMotion App) can be found here: https://photos.app.goo.gl/sYYzVtEX1z27xwiA7 Relive Graphic based on Garmin GPS Watch can be found here: https://www.relive.cc/view/g23272876565 Well done, impressing, good work! Thank you for sharing this information! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBIKER_SURFER Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 @maltocs Thanks for this info. Really disappointing to me, although I won't meet this overload in my 'summer residence' - due to no hills ? If the app shows the correct values for max. power, disappoinitng too. Keep us informed on any new tries! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UniVehje Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 (edited) Just came in my email: Quote V10 / V10F Safety Advisory Dear , We wanted to let you know that we’ve discovered some waterproofing vulnerability in our current released batches of V10 / V10F. While we regret the situation, InMotion is working hard on a solution for you, we wanted to let you know right away in an abundance of caution because there is a potential for serious damage. This vulnerability may not affect all customers, but here are the main points we wanted to share with you: Do not ride V10 in the rain, or on wet surfaces If you have recently gotten your V10 wet, stop charging and do not charge further If you notice any of the following abnormalities in your wheel’s behavior after having recently exposed your V10 to wet conditions, please contact us immediately at contact@myinmotion.com or 844-228-5464 Inability to power off Inability to charge Strange behavior in the battery indicator light next to the power button We realize this is a troubling issue, and we are taking it very seriously. Please know that InMotion is working diligently to have a resolution for you within 2 weeks. Rest assured that we will make sure your V10 / V10F gets properly weather sealed, and any customer that that incurs damage to their wheel as a result of this issue will receive complimentary repairs or replacement. In the meantime, please do be sure to keep your V10 / V10F dry. Team InMotion USA contact@myinmotion.com 844-228-5464 I've had the battery indicator not go all the way around a few times, but I'm not sure if that's strange behaviour enough. I've not ridden in wet conditions, only some mildly damp surfaces after rain. I don't think I'm affected. Anyway, I like that they are taking these things seriously. Again the right response from the company. Let's see how this develops. Edited August 2, 2018 by UniVehje 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastmike Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 It will be nice to know what are the production dates of the concerned wheels? All? @Bobwheel, can you please shed some lights on this? Many thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastmike Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, maltocs said: TWENTY-EIGHT OVERLOADS V10F In the California desert on the I-15 freeway, beginning at Baker, CA (entrance to Death Valley) major car manufacturers do heat/stress tests on their wrapped up secret cars on the 50 mile uphill stretch at the hottest spot in North America. EUC Manufactures need to do the same. Well, @Bobwheel, I've done it for you with the InMotion V10F firmware 2.2.8. Today, I attempted to climb the 9 mile/4500 elevation Mt Wilson Toll Road. I didn't make it due to extensive overloads, I gave up and went back down the hill after abour 5.8 miles. HERE IS THE DATA Inmotion V10F, Firmware 2.2.8, Comfort Mode Rider Weight 205 lb, Air Temp 90F Distance Up per Inmotion App - 5.8 miles Altitude Climbed per Garmin GPS Watch / Relive: 3009 ft The spreadsheet you can send your engineers can be found here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pkJHSlUypXWwVALSNeAbRrx_s4nYjyW8_6t8HARBhrg/edit?usp=sharing The source data (screenshot of the InMotion App) can be found here: https://photos.app.goo.gl/sYYzVtEX1z27xwiA7 Relive Graphic based on Garmin GPS Watch can be found here: https://www.relive.cc/view/g23272876565 Thanks Scot! Very valuable data collected! Hope that InMotion will be able to do something on that. 90F / 32°C is not a lot and all those overheat looks terrible... So we cannot ride when it is warm nor when it is wet looking at above email... ? Can we use it inside the house? Edited August 2, 2018 by Fastmike 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post UniVehje Posted August 2, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted August 2, 2018 2 hours ago, maltocs said: HERE IS THE DATA Thank you, this is the way to do it! Random anecdotes don't really provide anything helpful. My next question would be: What would be the acceptable behaviour for this wheel? I don't think anybody expects any wheel to never reach it's limits. All wheels have their limits, so this data is somewhat meaningless (for us, maybe not for InMotion) in a vacuum. We should compare it to other wheels that have self preservation built in. If most other wheels can do the same course with same rider with less or no overloads, then it's quite clear there's a problem with the wheel. Also, it would benefit this discussion to know what the exact heatsink temperature is that triggers the overload behaviour. Have they set it at 80C like the others or not? This wheel either reach the limit faster than others of the limit is set lower for some reason. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nils Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 2 hours ago, maltocs said: TWENTY-EIGHT OVERLOADS V10F @maltocs Many thanks for your efforts in collecting all of this! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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