Tightening the Monster Axle Nuts

[Rehab1]

8 hours ago, Jrkline "Wheel Whisperer" said:

It's the ultimate "master key". 

LOL!

[Hsiang]

So I received both socket and in case if anyone is in the same predictament; the first socket as well as the original one linked further up the thread does not fit the v3 case, the second one does. Going to put it in the mail and send it to Rehab1 tomorrow.

 

[Rehab1]

1 minute ago, Hsiang said:

So I received both socket and in case if anyone is in the same predictament; the first socket as well as the original one linked further up the thread does not fit the v3 case, the second one does. Going to put it in the mail and send it to Rehab1 tomorrow.

 

So glad you checked.  Once received I should be able to turn it around in 1 day. 

[Ben Kim]

Fun fact: 

It appears Gotway does use a red threadlocker to secure the nut to the axle on Monster V3, but it was either improperly applied or a cheap imitation that has no holding power. 

Had to clean it all off with alcohol and wipes, and reapply real loctite red to both sides. The right side of the axle was loose, left side was fine.

I’m waiting a full 24 hours for it to cure before I go out and put some miles on it, with the right socket and wrench it was an easy job to tackle, took maybe an hour, most of it taking the inner shell off. 

Edited October 4, 2019 by Ben Kim

[Declan acoustic-unicyclist]

9 minutes ago, Ben Kim said:

Fun fact: 

It appears Gotway does use a red threadlocker to secure the nut to the axle on Monster V3, but it was either improperly applied or a cheap imitation that has no holding power. 

Had to clean it all off with alcohol and wipes, and reapply real loctite red to both sides. The right side of the axle was loose, left side was fine.

I’m waiting a full 24 hours for it to cure before I go out and put some miles on it, with the right socket and wrench it was an easy job to tackle, took maybe an hour, most of it taking the inner shell off. 

ProjectFarm on youtube did an (unsponsored) test of the strongest threadlockers and found that Permatex Red is **FAR** stronger than "Loctite"

This is my recommendation for getting the axle to stay, and gives me confidence in my suggestion, seeing as Gotway themselves use a threadlocker.

 

 

If it comes loose, that is my recommendation as it's only $6 and man that stuff is strong for my scooter handlebars

[Camenbert]

 

HI,

This is the tool I use, cheap, strong, no need to mod, the motor cables have enough space inside the tool (MCM5 V2). And You can turn the nut 360° at once.

For European the FACOM Nervus 24 mm (SC.92.24) seems even a better option if you don't plan to use a torque wrench.

That said, at what torque should I tight the 24MM nut ?
I use equal force to tight and hold the wheel in place so I really don't know if what I do is enough,
numbers will help to be sure (already have a torque wrench anyway, in NM).

Thank you
 

Edited September 13, 2020 by Camenbert

[Planemo]

That socket isnt really designed for the amount of torque that the wheel nuts need. Good luck though if you manage to make it work without it looking like a piece of fusilli afterwards

 

[Camenbert]

Oh really ? This piece of metal is half kilo, I already put in used many time and will go nowhere, it's guarantee !!!

But yet no specified torque, so what are we talking about ...

[Planemo]

I believe the specified torque is simply 'FT', a bit like crankshaft bolts.

[Camenbert]

OK I succeed, it's not that tight, a bit more that what you apply on wheels nuts.
I would say 180 N⋅m instead of 130 N⋅m on usual cars.
So no need of special super strong tools to avoid to twist them, but indeed what Marty use, a "Woodworker Foldable Workbench".

Once I got one to work, these 24mm nut have no resistance to me;
Without this Workbench, it was impossible to apply the necessary torque and hold the wheel at the same time.

[RagingGrandpa]

FWIW, the installation torque for the Gotway/Begode MCM5, Tesla, MSX, Nikola, and MSP was reported by Gotway to be:

101 ft-lb

(137 N-m)

I've personally had success with 95 ft-lb, but friends had MSuper's loosen at 95 and needed to increase to 100. It's a frightening thing, waiting for the axle to crack under so much tension...

Fixturing the EUC to enable applying this much torque is difficult (as Marty noted). My 18" Crescent solution has been ez and reliable... disclaimer: it's a 10lb, $50 hunk of steel :/

[Camenbert]

Thank you for this very useful info !
Before reading you, i was tighten with a torque wrench and i didn't have enough force to go over 140Nm
What a chance that is the correct value.

Also, holding the wheel by the top, 140 Nm seems more than max before twisting and braking the plastic body-shell (no Workbench that day)

[Goonman]

I bought a deep 'impact' socket. Single hex thick walls. Cut a slot in it. It wouldn't fit nicely with the shell on. So I ground the OD of the socket til it fit. I used a shifter on the flat part of the pedal bracket/hanger unlike the other photos. Undid the nut rubbed off the loose bits of thread locker added my own. Didn't torque it just gave it a good heave. It felt like I could have easily gone too far if I tried. Then for good measure I turned my impact gun down a notch and gave it an ugga Dugga or two for confidence.

My inner shell was also cracked all round just about so I mixed up some resin and laid in some heavy weave fiber glass.

 

Good as new

[alcatraz]

Sorry to revive an old thread but does this socket mod hold up at the torque needed? I can imagine it could just split open when torquing it.

[alcatraz]

On 2/10/2021 at 7:55 AM, Rehab1 said:

Great job! Can’t believe it’s been over 3 years since I fabricated this one for Marty.

 

 

Since your so great at metal work can you help me fix my barn door I smashed into yesterday? 

 

Was it hard to find a socket solid enough to withstand the torque? Did you just get the first one you found, or did you have to look a long time?

[Planemo]

I think any socket intended for air wrench use would be ok

[wstuart]

So I've got an axel bolt that's come loose and I would like to tighten it myself.  I have no experience opening EUCs but I know how to tinker.  I've watched Marty's videos on tightening the axel bolt and replacing shims on his Monster. 

I want to buy a socket and cut a slot in it for the wires like his, but I have a couple questions.

1.  Is the MSP HT axel bolt 21mm or 24mm?

2. If I use threadlock, will blue work or should I use red?  Red is stronger, but requires heat to undo later. 

3.  Marty secures both pedal hangers with vices on a special work bench.  Is this necessary to maintain alligment, or can I just lay it on its side and open it up.  

 

 

[Tawpie]

6 minutes ago, wstuart said:

I want to buy a socket and cut a slot in it

Down under folks are known to use a 'podger' and don't need to cut a socket. I don't know the size though.

https://www.amazon.com/Ratchet-Spanner-Erecting-Scaffold-10mm-32mm/dp/B07S32Q2M9?th=1

Edited February 9, 2022 by Tawpie

[Paul A]

Slotted sockets are available, don't need to make one.

[techyiam]

The socket that Marty was using in his video looked very similar to oxygen sensor sockets. Amazon list a number of sizes. Perhaps one of them will fit.

If it were me, I would get two sockets with two L-handles/flex bars, and tighten the two nuts, one on each side at the same time.

However, if the OP wants to do one side at a time, then I would put the wheel on its side and use a very large crescent wrench on the hanger to applied a counter torque while tightening the nut with the flex bar and socket.

[EMA]

it's 24mm but you need a huge leverage to tight it on your own ( by hands )

better to use a pneumatic or electric tool like a tyre guy

[techyiam]

I believe you are suggesting to use a pneumatic impact gun. Those thing can pound the nut at over 300 ft-lbs. The socket they are using are not impact grade, and has a big slot in it. Moreover, there are motor phase wires and hall sensor wires coming out of the side of the socket. If the socket slips, or the socket cracks, if the socket is not stopped rotating immediately, the motor wires may wrap around and around the socket, and as a result damaging the wires.

I suppose if you know what tightening torque spec is from the manufacturer, and you can set the gun to that value. Otherwise, I can't see how you are going to what is too tight.

Have you done this before? Are you sure it is safe?

 

Edited February 11, 2022 by techyiam

[Planemo]

Agreed, I would never use a pneumatic or similar on the hollow axle, likely made of cheesium as well.

[techyiam]

Hollow bore motors have aluminium alloy hollow axles. Bolts are fasten into that aluminium alloy material.  No way you can you can use an 1/2* drive flex bar on that, never mind an impact gun. Even with thread adhesives, 3/8* drive ratchet or flex bar would be plenty. Due to the larger diameter of the axle, there is no need to use one big bolt or nut to tighten everything up. Using geometry, there is ample strength and rigidity from using four or more much smaller fasteners. Hence, hollow bore motors are completely different animals in the context of this discussion. 

[Planemo]

7 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Hence, hollow bore motors are completely different animals in the context of this discussion. 

I wasn't talking about hollow bore motors. I was talking about a hollow axle, which the Monster in question has.

Edit: maybe you weren't directing your post at me, and it was a general addition to the thread...

Edited February 11, 2022 by Planemo