Ninebot One Z : Z6-Z8-Z10

[Toshio Uemura]

23 minutes ago, RoberAce said:

arriving at the point I stop, I hold the wheel with the control leg, and I keep it with the foot pulling because there was a slight backward slope, the wheel is supported on some stones but they end up detaching from the ground, which causes the wheel turns in the air at high speed and when it finally tractionnig again it shoots forward and run over me 

Thank you. So that means there was no problem with the wheel but this accident was caused because of bad terrain, detaching stones? Or was the Z10 responsible for this to happen?

[RoberAce]

15 minutes ago, Toshio Uemura said:

Gracias. Entonces, ¿eso significa que no hubo ningún problema con la rueda, pero este accidente fue causado por un terreno malo, desprendiendo piedras? ¿O fue el Z10 responsable de que esto suceda?

 

 

 

 

 

255/5000

 

has been the terrain, the wheel has no problem except its wonderful power , and we must be careful when we are standing with the wheel pulling and holding, that the surface is not susceptible to skidding the wheel on the pavement

[Toshio Uemura]

20 minutes ago, RoberAce said:

 

 

 

 

 

255/5000

 

has been the terrain, the wheel has no problem except its wonderful power , and we must be careful when we are standing with the wheel pulling and holding, that the surface is not susceptible to skidding the wheel on the pavement

Gracias. That’s good to hear. The title of your video “Z10 OFf-ROAD FAIL” sounded a bit like there was a technical failure or problem with the wheel. Just wanted to clarify. 

Amazing off-road riding by the way!

One other question: What is the steepest angle you went up and down with your Z10 so far? Did you ever ride slopes over 30% with your Z10?

Edited August 31, 2018 by Toshio Uemura

[RoberAce]

44 minutes ago, Toshio Uemura said:

Gracias. That’s good to hear. The title of your video “Z10 OFf-ROAD FAIL” sounded a bit like there was a technical failure or problem with the wheel. Just wanted to clarify. 

Amazing off-road riding by the way!

One other question: What is the steepest angle you went up and down with your Z10 so far? Did you ever ride slopes over 30% with your Z10?

yes, and more than this

[Toshio Uemura]

1 hour ago, RoberAce said:

yes, and more than this

How much more? And how long? Any video material on such decents? ? 

[EZhel]

I'll sum up the reviews from various riders in my country, because, well, they differ a lot from what's being posted in this thread.

The Z is built around two design decisions - wide tire with motor and battery inside the rim and under-60V current.

Relatively low voltage made engineers use a much heavier motor for higher amperage to output the required power. I haven't heard of any problems for GotWay or KingSong in any country because of 84V. Also high amperage required a huge radiator to dissipate heat. This design decision made the Z much heavier than it could have been.

Packing battery and controller almost inside the wheel allowed the engineers to make the body low, and the pedals low. No idea what they tried to achieve with that, but low body makes controlling the heavy wheel a much harder task that it should've been, while low pedals make ppl feel like they're riding a 14" wheel.

Wide tire looks like it can take offroad well, but it's completely flat, very hard, coupled with low body and low pedals that doesn't make a good offroad experience.

The wide tire is too sensitive to turn, too hard to lean into the turn at decent speed, if inflated - too stiff to absorb anything, if deflated - wobbles constantly and gives a "twocycle" feel while not giving much better absorbtion. It's also unique, so replacing it with something else won't be possible most probably.

Generally everyone here says that riding the Z is counter-intuitive and requires getting used to, "special motorcycle-like technique".

The overall question is, what do those design decisions give to rider when he gets used to the wheel? Nothing, really. Everything the Z does, can be done with 18L/S/MSuperX at higher speed and more comfortably, without any "special techniques".

Do those design decisions give some strong point the the wheel, for example, is it a good offroad wheel? It isn't - because of low wide pedals,  insufficient control of low body and bad absorbtion of all kinds of bumps. Is it a good wheel for fast cruising? It's not because it's hard to turn at decent speed and behaves weirdly at hard stopping. Is it good for moving around the city? It's not, being very heavy and uncomfortable to be moved up/down the elevations with trolley handle. For all its weight Z10 has only a medium battery.

It looks cool and is really well made, but its design doesn't work together well in a system, neither does it give any advantages to justify all the limitations of that design.

Edited September 1, 2018 by EZhel

[Marcglider]

7 minutes ago, EZhel said:

I'll sum up the reviews from various riders in my country, because, well, they differ a lot from what's being posted in this thread.

The Z is built around two design decisions - wide tire with motor and battery inside the rim and under-60V current.

Relatively low voltage made engineers use a much heavier motor for higher amperage to output the required power. I haven't heard of any problems for GotWay or KingSong in any country because of 84V. Also high amperage required a huge radiator to dissipate heat. This design decision made the Z much heavier than it could have been.

Packing battery and controller almost inside the wheel allowed the engineers to make the body low, and the pedals low. No idea what they tried to achieve with that, but low body makes controlling the heavy wheel a much harder task that it should've been, while low pedals make ppl feel like they're riding a 14" wheel.

Wide tire looks like it can take offroad well, but it's completely flat, very hard, coupled with low body and low pedals that doesn't make a good offroad experience.

The wide tire is too sensitive to turn, too hard to lean into the turn at decent speed, if inflated - too stiff to absorb anything, if deflated - wobbles constantly and gives a "twocycle" feel while not giving much better absorbtion. It's also unique, so replacing it with something else won't be possible most probably.

Generally everyone here says that riding the Z is counter-intuitive and requires getting used to, "special motorcycle-like technique".

The overall question is, what do those design decisions give to rider when he's gets used to the wheel? Nothing, really. Everything the Z does, can be done with 18L/S/MSuperX at higher speed and more comfortably, without any "special techniques".

Do those design desicions give some strong point the the wheel? It's not a good offroad wheel? It isn't - because of low wide pedals,  insufficient control of low body and bad absorbtion of all kinds of bumps. Is it a good wheel for fast cruising? It's not because it's hard to turn at decent speed and behaves weirdly at hard stopping. Is it good for moving around the city? It's not, being very heavy and uncomfortable to be moved up/down the elevations with trolley handle. For all its weight Z10 has only a medium battery.

It looks cool and is really well made, but its design doesn't work together well in a system, neither does it give any advantages to justify all the limitations of that design.

Are you under some kind of pressure to purchase and own this wheel??? Is there some kind of Mandate ??? You on the payroll of some competitors??? 

Seems to me if you don't like the wheel, Don't Buy it... Don't Ride it... I am totally missing your whole point and reason for your lengthy dissertations on trashing the wheel...

We are all entitled to our opinions including you... I am not understanding what the point and expected outcome could possibly be in all this "trashing" of this wheel? You don't like it... FINE... Others Like it FINE... Find a wheel you like, enjoy hobby, and find something positive to write about, maybe you can convince them to send you a "Kickback".

[EZhel]

3 minutes ago, Marcglider said:

I am not understanding what the point and expected outcome could possibly be in all this "trashing" of this wheel?

What's the point of posting how good it is, when everyone I know were off-put after 30min of trying it out?

The Z is very expensive, and looks really good and interesting, but it would be better to also know that it actually isn't the best buy out of recent EUC crop, and the reasons behind it.

It turned out to be a "fail by design", when a cool-looking prototype proves that the ideas behind it do not work well together in practice. 

[Marcglider]

6 minutes ago, EZhel said:

What's the point of posting how good it is, when everyone I know were off-put after 30min of trying it out?

The POINT of posting how good it is reflects the POINT that there are obviously other NON-RUSSIAN's who own this Wheel and have a Different Opinion than Yours and "everyone you know"! As I said Everyone is entitled to their own opinion... 

 

17 minutes ago, EZhel said:

but it would be better to also know that it actually isn't the best buy out of recent EUC crop, and the reasons behind it.

And I am Assuming we can expect further OPINIONS of yours that will detail what you feel "IS" the best buy out of the recent crop of EUC's... and this May or May not be in agreement with other peoples (non-Russians) opinions????

[Toshio Uemura]

1 hour ago, EZhel said:

I'll sum up the reviews from various riders in my country, because, well, they differ a lot from what's being posted in this thread.

The Z is built around two design decisions - wide tire with motor and battery inside the rim and under-60V current.

Relatively low voltage made engineers use a much heavier motor for higher amperage to output the required power. I haven't heard of any problems for GotWay or KingSong in any country because of 84V. Also high amperage required a huge radiator to dissipate heat. This design decision made the Z much heavier than it could have been.

Packing battery and controller almost inside the wheel allowed the engineers to make the body low, and the pedals low. No idea what they tried to achieve with that, but low body makes controlling the heavy wheel a much harder task that it should've been, while low pedals make ppl feel like they're riding a 14" wheel.

Wide tire looks like it can take offroad well, but it's completely flat, very hard, coupled with low body and low pedals that doesn't make a good offroad experience.

The wide tire is too sensitive to turn, too hard to lean into the turn at decent speed, if inflated - too stiff to absorb anything, if deflated - wobbles constantly and gives a "twocycle" feel while not giving much better absorbtion. It's also unique, so replacing it with something else won't be possible most probably.

Generally everyone here says that riding the Z is counter-intuitive and requires getting used to, "special motorcycle-like technique".

The overall question is, what do those design decisions give to rider when he gets used to the wheel? Nothing, really. Everything the Z does, can be done with 18L/S/MSuperX at higher speed and more comfortably, without any "special techniques".

Do those design decisions give some strong point the the wheel, for example, is it a good offroad wheel? It isn't - because of low wide pedals,  insufficient control of low body and bad absorbtion of all kinds of bumps. Is it a good wheel for fast cruising? It's not because it's hard to turn at decent speed and behaves weirdly at hard stopping. Is it good for moving around the city? It's not, being very heavy and uncomfortable to be moved up/down the elevations with trolley handle. For all its weight Z10 has only a medium battery.

It looks cool and is really well made, but its design doesn't work together well in a system, neither does it give any advantages to justify all the limitations of that design.

Congrats! What a great review from somebody who never rode a Z10. Reminds me of a blind man in a tunnel talking about midnight fireworks. Please review things you have touched at least once. ?

Edited September 1, 2018 by Toshio Uemura

[EZhel]

@Marcglider I've no idea what the best buy is currenly. The KS18XL 2000Wh comes out late autumn, it may be great of may have its own set of issues, no way to know before it arrives.

ps @Toshio Uemura here's a review after a week of riding the Z6 (needs google translation).

Edited September 1, 2018 by EZhel

[Toshio Uemura]

16 minutes ago, EZhel said:

@Marcglider I've no idea what the best buy is currenly. The KS18XL 2000Wh comes out late autumn, it may be great of may have its own set of issues, no way to know before it arrives.

ps @Toshio Uemura here's a review after a week of riding the Z6 (needs google translation).

May be for your purposes the Z10 really is the wrong choice. How about this kind of EUC. Might convince more Russian riders

.

[palachzzz]

On 8/31/2018 at 4:01 AM, US69 said:

Z8 will probably not be produced at the moment..only z10 and z6 afaik.

400 pcs Z8 were produced and are no longer planned, info from our dealer (from manufacturer)

[palachzzz]

1 hour ago, Marcglider said:

and this May or May not be in agreement with other peoples (non-Russians) opinions????

Guys, there are no Z-owners in Russia for now, because first batch will arrived on next week, the second batch will arrived on October. The reviews described above are short attempts by experienced riders riding on Z6 which our dealer provided for testing.

[Marcglider]

I am getting my Z10 today... I will refrain from posting my opinion on this wheel till I get a "good amount" of miles on it , then I will give my honest opinion of what I think which won't mean much in the scope of the EUC world...

If anyone has read my past posts, the thing that bothers me the most is when people try to compare totally different wheels mostly when making decisions on a purchase. If I can make a comparison to Motorcycles, that would be like talking about a Honda CR 250 motocross racer, a Suzuki GSXR 1000, and a Harley Electra Glide in the same sentence! Aside from having 2 wheels and being called Motorcycles, they are totally different...

I own 2 14" wheels, 3 16" wheels, had a 18" and getting a Z. This is not a Boast, but it does give me good insight to understand that different size wheels, and from different manufacturers are DIFFERENT! They have different qualities and characteristics, some good, some not... they best serve different purposes, what one individual likes and may have a strong opinion is based on their preferences and how they use their wheel. This is magnified greatly when a wheel seems to be designed to fit into what has been called a "NICHE"  market by others whose opinions I have come to trust as accurate and honest.

Just now, palachzzz said:

Guys, there are no Z-owners in Russia for now, because first batch will arrived on next week, the second batch will arrived on October. The reviews described above are short attempts by experienced riders riding on Z6 which our dealer provided for testing.

AAAHHHH...       Unbelievable!!!

 

[palachzzz]

49 minutes ago, EZhel said:

@Toshio Uemura here's a review after a week of riding the Z6 (needs google translation).

If someone will read it, you need to know, that we have some tricky naming of Z10. We call it ZlO, it is translated from russian as "Evil" 

[EZhel]

3 minutes ago, palachzzz said:

Guys, there are no Z-owners in Russia for now, because first batch will arrived on next week, the second batch will arrived on October. The reviews described above are short attempts by experienced riders riding on Z6 which our dealer provided for testing.

There were at least three owners who got the Z unofficially from China, and I wouldn't call the week-long test of one rider a "short attempt".

[Mono]

2 hours ago, EZhel said:

Packing battery and controller almost inside the wheel allowed the engineers to make the body low, and the pedals low.

Do you know the actual height or ground clearance of the pedals?

[palachzzz]

6 minutes ago, EZhel said:

There were at least three owners who got the Z unofficially from China

We haven't reviews from them. 

7 minutes ago, EZhel said:

and I wouldn't call the week-long test of one rider a "short attempt".

It may be "short" for Z. And he isn't owner of Z

[Mono]

2 hours ago, EZhel said:

I'll sum up the reviews from various riders in my country, because, well, they differ a lot from what's being posted in this thread.

The Z is built around two design decisions - wide tire with motor and battery inside the rim and under-60V current.

Relatively low voltage made engineers use a much heavier motor for higher amperage to output the required power. I haven't heard of any problems for GotWay or KingSong in any country because of 84V. Also high amperage required a huge radiator to dissipate heat. This design decision made the Z much heavier than it could have been.

Packing battery and controller almost inside the wheel allowed the engineers to make the body low, and the pedals low. No idea what they tried to achieve with that, but low body makes controlling the heavy wheel a much harder task that it should've been, while low pedals make ppl feel like they're riding a 14" wheel.

Wide tire looks like it can take offroad well, but it's completely flat, very hard, coupled with low body and low pedals that doesn't make a good offroad experience.

The wide tire is too sensitive to turn, too hard to lean into the turn at decent speed, if inflated - too stiff to absorb anything, if deflated - wobbles constantly and gives a "twocycle" feel while not giving much better absorbtion. It's also unique, so replacing it with something else won't be possible most probably.

Generally everyone here says that riding the Z is counter-intuitive and requires getting used to, "special motorcycle-like technique".

The overall question is, what do those design decisions give to rider when he gets used to the wheel? Nothing, really. Everything the Z does, can be done with 18L/S/MSuperX at higher speed and more comfortably, without any "special techniques".

Do those design decisions give some strong point the the wheel, for example, is it a good offroad wheel? It isn't - because of low wide pedals,  insufficient control of low body and bad absorbtion of all kinds of bumps. Is it a good wheel for fast cruising? It's not because it's hard to turn at decent speed and behaves weirdly at hard stopping. Is it good for moving around the city? It's not, being very heavy and uncomfortable to be moved up/down the elevations with trolley handle. For all its weight Z10 has only a medium battery.

It looks cool and is really well made, but its design doesn't work together well in a system, neither does it give any advantages to justify all the limitations of that design.

While I can connect with most of your points, I don't understand why a low body (not pedals) would be of any disadvantage. I see no advantage of having a high shell or high center of gravity and I find a wheel easier and more comfortable to control when my points of contact are as low as possible.

Edited September 1, 2018 by Mono

[EZhel]

8 minutes ago, Mono said:

I find a wheel easier and more comfortable to control when my points of contact are as low as possible

That probably is, if it's not:  a) heavy b) kicking back in fast turns c) wobbling

[US69]

36 minutes ago, Marcglider said:

anyone has read my past posts, the thing that bothers me the most is when people try to compare totally different wheels mostly when making decisions on a purchase. If I can make a comparison to Motorcycles, that would be like talking about a Honda CR 250 motocross racer, a Suzuki GSXR 1000, and a Harley Electra Glide in the same sentence! Aside from having 2 wheels and being called Motorcycles, they are totally different...

I own 2 14" wheels, 3 16" wheels, had a 18" and getting a Z. This is not a Boast, but it does give me good insight to understand that different size wheels, and from different manufacturers are DIFFERENT! They have different qualities and characteristics, some good, some not... they best serve different purposes, what one individual likes and may have a strong opinion is based on their preferences and how they use their wheel. This is magnified greatly when a wheel seems to be designed to fit into what has been called a "NICHE"  market by others whose opinion

I am totally with you...wheels are different and can have different usecases, so comparing them makes no sense at all.

But so what are you/we/i exspect from a new wheel like the Z10?

That differs for sure for some people! Some maybe just want a „special cool looking“ wheel....while others want from a brandnew wheel perhaps better acceleration, best braking...or some want it to be the best commuter?!

So i absolutly CAN understand @EZhel s arguments.....its at least not more worse than those glorifying „Best Euc in the world“ statements....best Euc? 995wh? 45kmh max? at 2000 bucks? Alone this disqualifies it from such a „Best...“ statement

Just from the specs alone the Z10 leaves some questionmarks to me! I am really, really thinking of buying one, i have an offer for a Z10 for a price where i normally MUST get it....as it is a priceoffer that normally would fit for 995wh....

And still i am struggling...specs alone...25kg with 995wh? For this weight i would espect at least 1600wh? Just to name one spec...

And so in sight of this i understand an argument chain, which goes like „what can the Z10 do better than other wheels??“ 

Is it better looking? Yes! is it faster, powerfuller? Defintitly No .is it the better commuter? Hmmh, dont know, with that massive weight and that less battery? 

Each must answer that on his own.....

I am really split to buy this wheel...I hate to charge nearly each day...i love the stunning optics...

But i really would be frustrated when i buy it and its performing not better than my recent wheels in at least some usecases!

[Marcglider]

57 minutes ago, US69 said:

I am totally with you...wheels are different and can have different usecases, so comparing them makes no sense at all.

But so what are you/we/i exspect from a new wheel like the Z10?

That differs for sure for some people! Some maybe just want a „special cool looking“ wheel....while others want from a brandnew wheel perhaps better acceleration, best braking...or some want it to be the best commuter?!

So i absolutly CAN understand @EZhel s arguments.....its at least not more worse than those glorifying „Best Euc in the world“ statements....best Euc? 995wh? 45kmh max? at 2000 bucks? Alone this disqualifies it from such a „Best...“ statement

Just from the specs alone the Z10 leaves some questionmarks to me! I am really, really thinking of buying one, i have an offer for a Z10 for a price where i normally MUST get it....as it is a priceoffer that normally would fit for 995wh....

And still i am struggling...specs alone...25kg with 995wh? For this weight i would espect at least 1600wh? Just to name one spec...

And so in sight of this i understand an argument chain, which goes like „what can the Z10 do better than other wheels??“ 

Is it better looking? Yes! is it faster, powerfuller? Defintitly No .is it the better commuter? Hmmh, dont know, with that massive weight and that less battery? 

Each must answer that on his own.....

I am really split to buy this wheel...I hate to charge nearly each day...i love the stunning optics...

But i really would be frustrated when i buy it and its performing not better than my recent wheels in at least some usecases!

Thanks... now that opinion I appreciate and I have to agree... My total take away on all I have read to bundle it together is this... @Marty Backe rode the wheel, reviewed it extensively and bought one... @houseofjob did the same and owns one... @JESdrove 4 hours to ride one when Duf got it to test and review, he has his deposit in and waiting. @Mark Lee rode one for a while on a group ride in Utah, he is going out again Today to ride it... he kind of wants one but he just bought a MSX which he is "RAVING" about and he thinks the price is too much for a wheel with a small battery. In all honesty, Marty is Known to be a "Range" guy, I actually made a comment early on in one of his posts about the small battery and in the end, he has one and is somewhat Raving about it. 

SO... Yes, it is a lot of Money for a wheel... If we take the cost out of the equation and just look at the wheel itself, does it's uniqueness fit into your situation and make sense to buy?? I guess the ideal thing is to find someone with one willing to let you try it and then decide... If you make your way to Florida, let me know and I will let you ride mine...

 

[US69]

 

5 minutes ago, Marcglider said:

Yes, it is a lot of Money for a wheel... If we take the cost out of the equation and just look at the wheel itself, does it's uniqueness fit into your situation and make sense to buy?? I guess the ideal thing is to find someone with one willing to let you try it and then decide... If you make your way to Florida, let me know and I will let you ride mine...

Actually the wheel arrived in Germany and is in stock (1radwerkstatt.de)....so chance are getting higher to test one!

I am just jumping between MSX and Z10...hard decision, best would be to take both, but that would mean a long time water and bread :-)

[Marcglider]

2 minutes ago, US69 said:

 

Actually the wheel arrived in Germany and is in stock (1radwerkstatt.de)....so chance are getting higher to test one!

I am just jumping between MSX and Z10...hard decision, best would be to take both, but that would mean a long time water and bread :-)

I am actually trying to sell my 16S  and I will buy the MSX... I have the money but i don't need 3 16" wheels I am kind of torn because I actually LOVE the 16S, but with all my wheels I do not see me getting a lot of time on it as it's brothers Tesla and ACMv2 seem to have gotten my Favor lately...lol  

You can do what Many Americans seem to find acceptable... get them both and put it on a Credit Card...