Tishawn Fahie Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 I really hate reading about these situations.. I ride crazy around the city on these things. I was just telling the guys on the FB group for NY If I die riding I would rather because I got hit by a car and ran over.. not because of a lose wire. It's insane to think a company like "insert eu maker here" would release anything without proper testing, but at the same time people need to realize... These things can fail at any given moment... Do you know how many things can go wrong in an eu... Even cars can go bad at any moment thats why theres an mandatory inspection / maintenance test every year. It would be stupid to believe just Gotways are unsafe... Frankly ALL WHEELS ARE UNSAFE.... Just yesterday there was a dude telling me how his V8 just shutoff on him for no reason.... During my Ninebot days - I can't tell you how much times it dropped me off..... my friends air wheel (don't remember the model) drop me off like a bad habit for no reason or for some reason who knows... Again I'm not condoning the BS from getaway.. but you would be a fool to think every other wheel but "GOTWAY" is safe. We are all taking a chance here by getting on these un regulated devices.. Thank GOD the op was wearing protection.... To me Gotway is the best wheel available with some defects... No product ever released came out without some flawed device's in their line-up. What I don't like about GOTWAY is how their handling the situation.. Release a how to fix our flawed product is BS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tishawn Fahie Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 18 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: I think everyone that is cancelling their orders or swearing never to ride a Gotway because of this post should maybe hold off a little, at least until @meepmeepmayer tells us what the failure mechanism is. When the KingSong's stopped functioning because one of their fuses blows, did people stop buying KingSong's? As far as I know they still use fuses, which I think is a bad design. Incorporating a fuse is a fast and dirty solution to preventing excessive current. Proper engineering can avoid a fuse. If @Jason McNeil's recent sales numbers (Gotway's, not his) are accurate then there are huge numbers of these wheels out there and it appears that the vast majority are not failing. I just hate to see people give up on such great performing wheels. But I recognize everyone has their own comfort levels in terms of perceived safety. I'm with you @Marty Backe - while you guys are at it just... Don't buy a car.... matter fact cancel your next flight....even better.. cellphones are exploding... don't buy any more of those either.. There's nothing wrong with being cautions... but to think everything off the assembly line is perfectly fine is just craziness! I should be the last person talking but wear protection! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason McNeil Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 32 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: If @Jason McNeil's recent sales numbers (Gotway's, not his) are accurate then there are huge numbers of these wheels out there and it appears that the vast majority are not failing. Getting some photos forwarded of what the improved/corrected connectors look like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted March 17, 2017 Author Share Posted March 17, 2017 I'm too stupid to find the speedfeet email, someone give me a hint Is it info at sf.uk (the old non-co.uk domain), will he still get that? -- Thanks for your support everyone. But Marty is right, don't suddenly act like any Gotway wheel will certainly kill you. At least wait until we know what happened, possibly Gotway's answer to the distributors, etc. I wrote this in the heat of the battle yesterday evening, pissed (still not too happy) and hurt so maybe it sounded to anti-Gotway then. So wait with the GW hate a little, and just wear protection with every wheel. For clarification: I don't think if you ride on flat pavement, even fast, you have anything to worry about, done that for 200km I had done a 1.5 hour mountain ride (80-50% battery in only 40 mins for the way up) before which was maybe slightly less steep and had flatter parts in between and that went perfectly well the difference (I guess, not know, maybe turns out it was something completely else) was a constant incline this time without flatter parts. So unless you do that, don't be to scared of your GW wheels What still pisses me off (justified or not, I don't know) is that there was no warning sign or anything. Not knowing where you are between perfect and doom is annoying. It's kind of the weak spot of EUC comfort overall and, as some answers here show, on your mind. It was not my intent to ruin your EUC fun guys, sorry! As Marty said, statistically little happens with EUCs and if you wear proper protection even a crash isn't the end of the world. So I'll write Ian later and tell you the results. @Tishawn Fahie My protection were my cloth gloves and that was it. Low speed and maybe luck helped so only some parts of my arms hurt a little but nothing that looks serious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 1 hour ago, Eddrush said: True to some degree. So far I have only noticed this issue stems from the 84volt units - Nope...this startes here in a thread in early december with failure reports of normal V3.....and not just one... 38 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: As far as I know they still use fuses, which I think is a bad design. As far as i know the fuse only blows in a situation to prevent burning the board....So that in case of a failure you only have to Change the fuse...and not the burned board. So you have the cheaper faceplant ;-) 38 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: I think everyone that is cancelling their orders or swearing never to ride a Gotway because of this post should maybe hold off a little, at least until @meepmeepmayer tells us what the failure mechanism is. Beside all failure's i am still thinking of buying a ACM 84Volt next.... From my Point of view driving EUC at all is quiet dangerous as Long as there is no real redundancy at least with the board ...and i accept that as the positive's of EUC driving are much better :-) And mostly this fault's occure in a very high amp/torque Situation on steep hills on low Speed ...i am prepared there! Really dangerous it gets for People who are not here in a Forum and are misleaded by whomoever that the EUC is just a normal Transportation device Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Speedyfeet UK +44(0)1594546477 Email: info@speedyfeet.uk Similar to parachuting, it's always a bad day when something fails. We're riding on one wheel zooming around at high speeds relying on electricity and circuits. What could go wrong? It's easy to have a knee jerk response whenever we hear about these problems. Remember it's still early on in the sport/hobby/game so improvements are coming. It's like driving a first year Model T! There's going to be growing pains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 8 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said: Getting some photos forwarded of what the improved/corrected connectors look like. I think they showed on the GW Group on Facebook in a Video? now they crimp one side...(which electrical is sub-optimal also) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houseofjob Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Just now, KingSong69 said: I think they showed on the GW Group on Facebook in a Video? now they crimp one side...(which electrical is sub-optimal also) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted March 17, 2017 Author Share Posted March 17, 2017 Yea it's scary having no control (and warning) over such things, that's why I was so on edge (and infected some people here, looks like). Don't blame it entirely on GW or be scared of your wheels, that's just how it is. So again sorry if I ruined someone's wheel enjoyment. Wear protection and you're good. @KingSong69 Forgot to answer you. I knew the motor thing affects any GW wheel with the old style connections. I just never heard of an ACM having the problem, which is one of the resons I did such a lengthy post (so people are warned). And despite the crash I'm a bit glad it happened. Once the reason is known, we (possibly) know some limits and what not to do with a wheel, something that the (any?) wheel itself won't tell you unfortunately. @Hunka Hunka Burning Love Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Like someone else mentioned before, "locked" (stiff/not turning at all) motor usually indicates a burnt mosfet(s) shorting two or all three motor phases together. Another option is that the connectors came off and shorted together. Likely the motor itself is just fine, the "locking" actually means the motor is braking when you try to turn it... you can try it yourself, if you disconnect the three motor phase wires from the mainboard, it should turn freely, if you put two or all three of them together (the ones coming from the motor with each other, not the mainboard), you'll find the motor very hard to turn ("locked"). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 29 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said: I'm too stupid to find the speedfeet email, someone give me a hint Is it info at sf.uk (the old non-co.uk domain), will he still get that? <snip> Here's the e-mail that I use when communicating with Ian: info@speedyfeet.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 BTW @meepmeepmayer, your unfortunate experience demonstrates why it's important to have more than one high performance wheel. When one fails you have (at least) one backup wheel to keep the fun going. After buying my original ACM I soon bought a KS14C because I felt nervous not having a backup wheel. But for true comfort I needed a backup to the backup, so I bought the MSuper V3. So get your order in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingouin Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 1 hour ago, Marty Backe said: I think everyone that is cancelling their orders or swearing never to ride a Gotway because of this post should maybe hold off a little, at least until @meepmeepmayer tells us what the failure mechanism is. When the KingSong's stopped functioning because one of their fuses blows, did people stop buying KingSong's? As far as I know they still use fuses, which I think is a bad design. Incorporating a fuse is a fast and dirty solution to preventing excessive current. Proper engineering can avoid a fuse. If @Jason McNeil's recent sales numbers (Gotway's, not his) are accurate then there are huge numbers of these wheels out there and it appears that the vast majority are not failing. I just hate to see people give up on such great performing wheels. But I recognize everyone has their own comfort levels in terms of perceived safety. I think you are right, maybe I'm just not thinking this through, and perhaps my ACM will never fail...and I love it, of all my 4 EUC it's my favorite, from all the ones I tested it's the second one I prefer, maybe I'm juste trying to get an excuse to my girlfriend to justify buying a GT16 right after buying an ACM I have tested my ACM in hard conditions without any sign of failure, I securised my ACM like you did on your video Marty, and judging by your experience I would say if you are comfortable with your solution, then I should be too considering I weight 20kg less. You are right again, we don't know what the issue is wih meepmeepmayer's ACM, but I hope it's "just" the connectors, because an other issue would not be better and not easily fixable :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 12 minutes ago, Pingouin said: I think you are right, maybe I'm just not thinking this through, and perhaps my ACM will never fail...and I love it, of all my 4 EUC it's my favorite, from all the ones I tested it's the second one I prefer, maybe I'm juste trying to get an excuse to my girlfriend to justify buying a GT16 right after buying an ACM <snip> You have my permission - buy that GT16 right now I need to get some first hand accounts of this wheel because if it meets expectations it'll be a great wheel for the mountains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingouin Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 8 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: You have my permission - buy that GT16 right now I need to get some first hand accounts of this wheel because if it meets expectations it'll be a great wheel for the mountains. I think if I am reassured about the ACM issue, I will wait a little, buy the 850Wh GT16 and keep the ACM, if it was entirely up to me I would buy one ASAP but I've already bought 3 drones and 1 EUC in less than 4 months and my girlfriend is getting crazy, I need to wait a little to sweeten the pill ^^ I have done the tiny review on te GT16, if it wasn't a EUC I love, I wouldn't have recommended it (I don't like recommending bad products), I know it's not an objective review, but still for your style of riding, I think you would love it ! I still need to know what is the issue with meep's ACM though.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 I removed the side panels on my ACM 1600. I snooped even further and removed the entire circuit board so I could see the other 6 mosfets that were buried beneath. The heat sink is very large so that should diminish any high temperatures affecting the mosfets. I have a temperature data logger that will record up to 2 months of data that I plan to install on the heat sink just for research. I can then reopen the wheel in a month or so and retrieve the logger and download the data. Here is a short video where I panned over wiring and circuit board. Nothing suspicious looking in terms of bad connections or burnt wires. The inner shells to expose the motor are horrendous to open. I have pulled and yanked on them.They appear to be stuck around the charging plug and light assembly cosmetic plates. Any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tishawn Fahie Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said: I'm too stupid to find the speedfeet email, someone give me a hint Is it info at sf.uk (the old non-co.uk domain), will he still get that? -- Thanks for your support everyone. But Marty is right, don't suddenly act like any Gotway wheel will certainly kill you. At least wait until we know what happened, possibly Gotway's answer to the distributors, etc. I wrote this in the heat of the battle yesterday evening, pissed (still not too happy) and hurt so maybe it sounded to anti-Gotway then. So wait with the GW hate a little, and just wear protection with every wheel. For clarification: I don't think if you ride on flat pavement, even fast, you have anything to worry about, done that for 200km I had done a 1.5 hour mountain ride (80-50% battery in only 40 mins for the way up) before which was maybe slightly less steep and had flatter parts in between and that went perfectly well the difference (I guess, not know, maybe turns out it was something completely else) was a constant incline this time without flatter parts. So unless you do that, don't be to scared of your GW wheels What still pisses me off (justified or not, I don't know) is that there was no warning sign or anything. Not knowing where you are between perfect and doom is annoying. It's kind of the weak spot of EUC comfort overall and, as some answers here show, on your mind. It was not my intent to ruin your EUC fun guys, sorry! As Marty said, statistically little happens with EUCs and if you wear proper protection even a crash isn't the end of the world. So I'll write Ian later and tell you the results. @Tishawn Fahie My protection were my cloth gloves and that was it. Low speed and maybe luck helped so only some parts of my arms hurt a little but nothing that looks serious That is great to hear! It's basically the same thing's I'm wearing for protection as well besides my motorcycle jacket haha!! Be safe man.. Please keep us posted on the cause.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Here is the Temperature Data Logger I will be installing on the ACM heat sink. It should be interesting to see the the amount of heat that is being generated and absorbed by the heat sink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 28 minutes ago, Rehab1 said: Here is a short video where I panned over wiring and circuit board. Nothing suspicious looking in terms of bad connections or burnt wires. The inner shells to expose the motor are horrendous to open. I have pulled and yanked on them.They appear to be stuck around the charging plug and light assembly cosmetic plates. Any ideas? You didn't say "good" before ideas! With the motor wires, maybe adding a good length of heat shrink tubing over the connectors and wires would be good insurance. Don't know if yours are crimped and soldered, but I think the heat shrink tubing would add an extra layer of assurance while still being not too difficult to remove if you ever need to disconnect things. Cool datalogger! Can you stick it right next to the MOSFETS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Very funny! You know your idea is coming very close to reality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 I'm just here to provide comic relief. Those who cannot ride make jokes. And what the heck, is no one working on Friday any more? Geez, no wonder the economy is tanked! I wouldn't bother too much taking the whole thing apart without checking out someone else's videos. They may have added some sort of waterproofing bonding agent which is making life difficult? Or there's some of those annoying weak plastic clips that will break at a moment's notice. Unless you're wanting to change shells out the results might not be worth the effort? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 7 minutes ago, Rehab1 said: Here is the Temperature Data Logger I will be installing on the ACM heat sink. It should be interesting to see the the amount of heat that is being generated and absorbed by the heat sink. That's a very cool idea. And maybe you'll be able to calibrate the temperature that comes from the app with the data logger. It'll be interesting to hear your future reports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 36 minutes ago, Rehab1 said: I removed the side panels on my ACM 1600. I snooped even further and removed the entire circuit board so I could see the other 6 mosfets that were buried beneath. The heat sink is very large so that should diminish any high temperatures affecting the mosfets. I have a temperature data logger that will record up to 2 months of data that I plan to install on the heat sink just for research. I can then reopen the wheel in a month or so and retrieve the logger and download the data. Here is a short video where I panned over wiring and circuit board. Nothing suspicious looking in terms of bad connections or burnt wires. The inner shells to expose the motor are horrendous to open. I have pulled and yanked on them.They appear to be stuck around the charging plug and light assembly cosmetic plates. Any ideas? Glad you finally opened it up. Probably gives you a little more confidence in the wheel. Those motor connectors look like mine, which I don't think are crimped. I don't like the fact that you can see bare wire sticking out from the connector shell. I assume you're going to apply something over those connectors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 1 hour ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: I'm just here to provide comic relief. Those who cannot ride make jokes. And what the heck, is no one working on Friday any more? Geez, no wonder the economy is tanked Oh I was at work. Unfortunately I became so obsessed performing my ACM autopsy that I forgot about my patient sitting in a room I blame it on that @meepmeepmayer dude Frustrated I just left the facility with the guts of my ACM splayed all over the table. 1 hour ago, Marty Backe said: Glad you finally opened it up. Probably gives you a little more confidence in the wheel. Those motor connectors look like mine, which I don't think are crimped. I don't like the fact that you can see bare wire sticking out from the connector shell. I assume you're going to apply something over those connectors? I was surprised about the clean, well engineered layout of the electrical components and wiring. Yes I plan to cover the connectors. Another thing that bothered me was the lack of a protective, non conductive shield beneath the circuit board. Yes there are plastic spacers elevating the board and protecting it from short circuiting on the metal base but a simple screw or any metallic object that became dislodged could easily become sandwiched between the two and easily fry the board. Adding a non conductive film to the metal base is also high on my discrepancy list. 3 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said: Yea it's scary having no control (and warning) over such things, that's why I was so on edge (and infected some people here, looks like). Don't blame it entirely on GW or be scared of your wheels, that's just how it is. So again sorry if I ruined someone's wheel enjoyment. Wear protection and you're good. Please don't feel that you ruined our enjoyment! You may have saved someone from a serious injury! Thank you for bringing this to our attention! It is best we find out exactly what occurred! I have no problem mothballing my wheel until the issues are resolved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted March 17, 2017 Author Share Posted March 17, 2017 Really nice idea with the additional electronics. Looks like the manufacturers outsourced further wheel development to their unsuspecting users - not ideal Writing the email now (other things had to come first, sorry). So I'm afraid it may take a few days until everything is said and done, but of course I will update you as soon as it makes sense. You just have to be patient, and don't be scared of your wheels too much until then @Rehab1 Thanks... but if you put someone in a padded cell you may also save them from injury. So I feel a little bad about distributing my anxiousness around here. If I had a second wheel (even an ACM), I might very well go on a nice cool (and slow) evening ride around some bike paths today, so EUCs are still fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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