Rehab1 Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 6 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said: @Rehab1 I removed nothing. The first few photos I literally only removed the siode panel and started doing pictures. Something has definitely changed in the manufacturing process! When was your wheel built? Mine was built in February 2017. This is the stuff that really pisses me off! Did GW realize there was a heat issue around this batch of wires and addressed the problem by adding the shielding without telling anyone? @Marty Backe does your ACM have the heat shielded wire wrap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 @meepmeepmayer I am curious how Ian will react.... If he will make an annoucement like with the pedals....if he lets you sent the wheel back... Just curious...I now his service is top notch, thats no question...more thinking what he gets out of this failure for the others/future sales... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted March 19, 2017 Author Share Posted March 19, 2017 @KingSong69 Naked riding + some a few cubic meters of helium balloons and you're good @Rehab1 8th December 2016 as per QC (AHAHAHA) stamp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 1 minute ago, Rehab1 said: Something has definitely changed in the manufacturing process! When was your wheel built? Mine was built in February 2017. This is the stuff that really pisses me off! Did GW realize there was a heat issue around this batch of wires and addressed the problem by adding the shielding without telling anyone? That must not even be a "change"...perhaps just a different one on work that day...who forgot the heat isolation. Btw.: SOME of this fiber insulations are only capable of 120degree celsius...so it is not said that with them this failure wont happen.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted March 19, 2017 Author Share Posted March 19, 2017 Yep, I'm currently thinking whether a repair attempt or return is better (if return is possible). I'll sleep on it and write Ian tomorrow. Unfortunately, looks like a return is the "rational" choice and I'm likely stuck waiting for better engineered wheels... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted March 19, 2017 Author Share Posted March 19, 2017 No heat protection in the official assembly video, but that's very old and a 67V model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 @Linnea Lin Gotway As you can see...no Mosfet failure... "only" melted cables behind the motor connection wires...(where heat insulation is missing)... But i would guess it is user fault as he rides a steep hill? To be clear: Thats sarcasm :-) 6 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said: Yep, I'm currently thinking whether a repair attempt or return is better (if return is possible). I'll sleep on it and write Ian tomorrow. Unfortunately, looks like a return is the "rational" choice and I'm likely stuck waiting for better engineered wheels... A repair return is easy...just put out the batteries and its just 15 bucks to uk... A complete return? didn t you like Euc cycling to much to be without wheel? Unfortunately there is no 1500wh++ wheel in the 16" class....so i wont do that... If you can live with 840wh the only alternative is the KS16(s)....if you can live with max30/35kmh also! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 49 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: I hope @Linnea Lin Gotway sees these pictures and understand another design change that they need to make. It's funny, sad, (insert your adjective here) that all of these problems (under sized wires, bad connectors, etc) are so simple to design around, yet Gotway is still designing their wheels as if they were 5 mph Solowheels. Oh I am sure she has viewed the photos! She has been monitoring this topic since it began! Forum members need to do some saber rattling so Gotway executives are compelled to provide answers and sound remedies to all of these malfunctions! There is almost a deception going on between GW and their loyal customers! So Sad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted March 19, 2017 Author Share Posted March 19, 2017 7 minutes ago, KingSong69 said: A repair return is easy...just put out the batteries and its just 15 bucks to uk... A complete return? didn t you like Euc cycling to much to be without wheel? Unfortunately there is no 1500wh++ wheel in the 16" class....so i wont do that... If you can live with 840wh the only alternative is the KS16(s)....if you can live with max30/35kmh also! If I keep it, I want to be sure that won't happen again. So a repair would have to ensure that. Is that even possible? No crashes without warning, that's what I want. Whether I wait (for a loooong time probably) or go for a KS16S (or I don't know what, maybe the coming KS18 if it's good)... I don't know. And yes, I like EUCing, but riding while never knowing how close to a crash you are is not fun! For flat land "safe" rides it's just too expensive (and are they even safe?). I have no idea if my 1.5h mountain ride immediately before that was dangerous or not, that's what pisses me off the most. Did I enjoy it while 1% from disaster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 Thanks for posting the photos up. If you feel that you feel you really want to keep the wheel and try to repair it yourself, I would try cutting away the burned/melted section, add in one or more heat shrink tubes, add a heat sleeve, and solder the joint. Move the heat shrink tube to cover the joint and heat. Then move the heat sleeve over the works. The more you can cover the thinner wire coming out of the motor with heat shrink tubing the better as I wouldn't trust those wires. Try to separate those wires apart a little as well as where they cross over other wires (hall sensor wiring). Or you can get those crimpable butt connectors. Or maybe just let Ian repair it under warranty. Edit: Or mail it to @EUC Extreme to safety proof it. I don't know how much he would charge to beef it up, but I'd say he's the guy you want. Think of him like how AMG is to Mercedes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingouin Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 2 minutes ago, Rehab1 said: Oh I am sure she has viewed the photos! She has been monitoring this topic since it began! Forum members need to do some saber rattling so Gotway executives are compelled to provide answers and sound remedies to all of these malfunctions! There is almost a deception going on between GW and their loyal customers! So Sad! I'm very sad too, I own 4 gotways, I always saw gotway as the best manufacturer for reliability, but now I'm getting scared... The only "good" thing about this, is that it is a very easy fix for Gotway (if it was the PCB I would say it could be worse). 2 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said: If I keep it, I want to be sure that won't happen again. So a repair would have to ensure that. Is that even possible? No crashes without warning, that's what I want. Whether I wait (for a loooong time probably) or go for a KS16S (or I don't know what, maybe the coming KS18 if it's good)... I don't know. And yes, I like EUCing, but riding while never knowing how close to a crash you are is not fun! For flat land "safe" rides it's just too expensive. I have no idea if my 1.5h mountain ride immediately before that was dangerous or not, that's what pisses me off the most. Did I enjoy it while 1% from disaster? I think the risk zero doesn't exist even with other brands, most EUC have failed somehow...but a bad design is frustrating ! I would consider the GT16 if I were to change, but I sill want to believe that my ACM is safe :/ Maybe EUC are not meant for moutain riding... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted March 19, 2017 Author Share Posted March 19, 2017 3 minutes ago, Pingouin said: Maybe EUC are not meant for moutain riding... That's the problem. The ride just before wasn't much flatter, just with some "breaks". So how much "mountain" exactly is allowed? Will the wheel crash if I do a lesser incline on a regular road, but I'm going fast for some time? Also at 80kg it's not like I'm an extreme fatty... The uncertainty is the problem. If the wheel warned me "I can't do that", I can live with the limitations perfectly fine. But just an unexpected dead wheel mid-ride, and you don't know what the limit is... how do you deal with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 Just now, meepmeepmayer said: If I keep it, I want to be sure that won't happen again. So a repair would have to ensure that. Is that even possible? No crashes without warning, that's what I want. Whether I wait (for a loooong time probably) or go for a KS16S (or I don't know what, maybe the coming KS18 if it's good)... I don't know. And yes, I like EUCing, but riding while never knowing how close to a crash you are is not fun! For flat land "safe" rides it's just too expensive. I have no idea if my 1.5h mountain ride immediately before that was dangerous or not, that's what pisses me off the most. Did I enjoy it while 1% from disaster? Crashes are always possible if something fails...and unfortunately there are no warnings then... Sorry, but you have to have that in mind on all EUC's...On the KS16S there are the biggest mosfets possible...thicker motor wires...a lot saftey installations...etc etc...but even there is no redundancy Ks18 will be a very long wait time...and nobody knows whats coming with it... Extreme Mountain rides have all time been known as that they can overheat the board...then you would get a warning and need a small break...but what happens here is a new "dimension". Cables/wiring seams to be to small designed for a constant "max wattage" use...." Perhaps with correct heat insulation, nice connection evrything is good? but who knows..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 8 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: Or you can get those crimpable butt connectors. Seams to have nothing to do with the connectors, as these dont fail..."just" the cable melted... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 If I were Gotway I'd be specifying that their motor supplier use heavier gauge wiring coming out of their motors and insulating them from each other and the hall sensor wiring. They seem to be using a thicker wire already from the control board supplier side. I just don't know if the diameter of the hole out of the motor might define a wire size gauge limit. It's looks to be purely a case of older components not designed for the larger battery packs sending more current out with the weak spot being the thinner motor wiring. You can sort of see why @EUC Extreme changed out the wiring completely into the motor itself all the way to the copper wiring coils. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 12 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said: The uncertainty is the problem. If the wheel warned me "I can't do that", I can live with the limitations perfectly fine. But just an unexpected dead wheel mid-ride, and you don't know what the limit is... how do you deal with that? I dont like to say that..but you have that uncertainty all the time! one or two of your 120 cells fail...what then? A small capacitor from the board smokes away....a connection gets loose...a flat tire..... I could write about some other failures....result: unexpected dead of wheel. Practical: Wont happen to often...if so..you read it here in the forum. What i want to say is: You gotta live with that risk, do the best protection you can/want... Otherwise Euc would not be possible nowadays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 4 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: ng that their motor supplier use heavier gauge wiring coming out of their motors and insulating them from each other and the hall sensor wiring. They seem to be using a thicker wire already from the control board supplier side. Nope...its the same inside...just the silicon insulation is thicker on the motor side... i thought that also before, and that the heat comes from that "bottle neck"...but like said, same wire inside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted March 19, 2017 Author Share Posted March 19, 2017 @KingSong69 What you describe is uncertainty by nature. Things can break and nobody can expect everything to work perfectly all the time. My problem is with Gotway's uncertainty by design. Some monitoring of the weakest parts, a properly dimensioned rest, and an overcurrent/overheating warning, that's all I'd want. Is that so unrealistic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 22 minutes ago, KingSong69 said: Extreme Mountain rides have all time been known as that they can overheat the board... The power it takes to climb a long hill is a lot more than the power it takes to ride on flat ground. Gravity is strong. @Marty Backe just posted a video of a long downhill ride that made me wonder. Could even the Monster have made that trip going uphill? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 51 minutes ago, Rehab1 said: Something has definitely changed in the manufacturing process! When was your wheel built? Mine was built in February 2017. This is the stuff that really pisses me off! Did GW realize there was a heat issue around this batch of wires and addressed the problem by adding the shielding without telling anyone? @Marty Backe does your ACM have the heat shielded wire wrap? Zero heat shielding wrap on any of my ACM cables. My MSuper V3 does have the individual wrap. And my Monster has one huge heat wrap over all three cables , so when they melt they won't hurt anything else in the wheel, but all three cables will be able to melt into one As I already noticed in my fix-it videos, it seems like the heat shielding is applied based on the day of the week of how that particular assembler person feels that day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 Just now, steve454 said: The power it takes to climb a long hill is a lot more than the power it takes to ride on flat ground. Gravity is strong. @Marty Backe just posted a video of a long downhill ride that made me wonder. Could even the Monster have made that trip going uphill? I did some very serious (almost at a standstill) hill climbing that day - no issues (knock on wood). But those climbs only lasted a few minutes. @meepmeepmayer said he rode for ~10 minutes. So it may be a amps vs time issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 Jinx coke. (posted at the same time as someone else, but now I don't remember who it was) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 25 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: <snip> I just don't know if the diameter of the hole out of the motor might define a wire size gauge limit. It's looks to be purely a case of older components not designed for the larger battery packs sending more current out with the weak spot being the thinner motor wiring. <snip> There's nothing preventing (is there?) Gotway from feeding cables thru both sides of the wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted March 19, 2017 Author Share Posted March 19, 2017 @Marty Backe 10 minutes is an estimate. I went down the hill with the wheel on my back, and it took 20 min (I checked the time). So anything between 5 and 10 minutes, probably closer to 10. My bet is on 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 16 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said: My problem is with Gotway's uncertainty by design. Some monitoring of the weakest parts, and an overcurrent/overheating warning, that's all I'd want. Is that so unrealistic? Nope, not really, but: GW lets all responsibility in the hand of their customers...KS for example goes a safety first way...with the result, that nobody buys them because of their "bad performance "... I guess the true answer- no offense meant- is that pushing a 120cell euc up a fat hill for longer than lets say a minute...is not possible in the moment... As here was no overcurrent...just a to long used high current... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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