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My MSuper V3 Now Feels Like A Small Wheel


Marty Backe

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Just a little observation that struct me today. I just returned from a 30 mile cement river trail ride with my trusty MSuper V3. It has been 1 month since I last rode it because in the interim I received the 84v ACM and Monster. I've been riding the Monster a lot.

So when I first got my MSuper it felt very large relative to my ACM, which was a slight detraction from its awesomeness in other regards.

When I jumped on it today, having come from lots of Monster riding, it felt absolutely tiny. It felt like a super agile machine. The sensation never disappeared during the 3 hours of riding.

I guess  my brain has been permanently rewired due to the Monster riding. Now when I want to grab an agile wheel for fun around town I have an ACM or MSuper to pick from :)

Any of you guys that feel that your MSuper is a bit on the unwieldy side, get yourself a Monster so that your brain can be re-calibrated B)

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Hi,

I know what you are talking about, I had the exact same feeling when riding the KS18 for 100km and them coming back to the "14" mcm4, it felt so agile and so tiny, with instant response from the motor when leaning forward.

I would really like to test a monster but nobody around me has one, just wait for the "26" to come out and the monster will feel tiny as well ^^

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Same thing here, but smaller scale. After Airwheel X5 MS3 initially felt massive and unwieldy (but still powerful and excellent). After 500 miles it feels 'normal' sized, and is as agile as I ever remember my old 14 incher being. Still powerful and excellent :)

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I went out to the grocery store on foot to recalibrate by back and scout out the melting snow situation on local sidewalks for a short hop on the Ninebot the next time. Walking back in the opposing traffic lane shoulder (at night under street lights) some 8 feet away from the white lane line in an unplowed sidewalk area a passing car tightly hit the horn in objection to my walking mode (rather than taking the bus). I find it hard to imagine what kind of response a moving EUC would evoke. I don't think that Massachusetts drivers are able to dissociate a non-sidewalk pedestrian (or EUC rider) transit from their urge to express their discriminating opinion with their horn.

Locally in Boston I've heard about epic parking spot battles in urban neighbirhoods where under snowed in conditions on narrow one lane streets the residents stake out 'their parking spaces' with markers, chairs or whatever object is appropriate to the declare the claimed parking space.

Your cement river type of trail is non-existent around here. Patriot pride often overflows it's boundry when drivers get behind the wheel.

I once rode the cement sidewalk from Winthrop to Revere Beach in the Ninebot. A walker on the sidewalk in Winthrop gave me a kind of 'it's ok' nod and hordes of summer Beach goers (locals) along the route looked slightly perturbed as I rode long wide turns to avoid getting too close to the chair bound Beach goers.

A McDonalds some 10 miles away that had three available AC outlets, each of which I had used for longer distance rides during the last summer, has since flat plated over the AC outlets and prohibited the outlets (probably for floor cleaner use) questionably legitimate use by me in exchange for about $8 in purchases per visit. In that regard the MSuper is an inspiration.

I've often wondered what the per hour rate of compensation is for the assorted police on duty I've passed. An $800 Ninebot is small change to their annual take.

Not being an MSuper rider I suppose my response does not technically apply to your interesting Monster post.

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Personally I never understood why people make such a fuss over 2 more inches moving up from 16 to 18; the relative size, not counting the taller KS-18, is really not that much bigger.

The real main difference (outside of weight) in my experience has been that starting at 18", you are required to start using your hips for equivalent degree of turning. 

In my daily Monster riding, I've discovered you can really lean and push the wheel, without much fear of overlean cutout, unlike most other wheels (esp the ones under 84V operational). What I perceived at first was low initial acceleration torque was in fact me not leaning into the machine enough. 

Now, I can comfortably maneuver and brake in typical stop-and-go, 15-25mph NYC traffic, often passing said traffic. 

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On 2/19/2017 at 10:14 PM, houseofjob said:

Personally I never understood why people make such a fuss over 2 more inches moving up from 16 to 18; the relative size, not counting the taller KS-18, is really not that much bigger.

The real main difference (outside of weight) in my experience has been that starting at 18", you are required to start using your hips for equivalent degree of turning. 

In my daily Monster riding, I've discovered you can really lean and push the wheel, without much fear of overlean cutout, unlike most other wheels (esp the ones under 84V operational). What I perceived at first was low initial acceleration torque was in fact me not leaning into the machine enough. 

Now, I can comfortably maneuver and brake in typical stop-and-go, 15-25mph NYC traffic, often passing said traffic. 

Hey houseofjob,

Im relatively new on my V5f+, and loving it. I'm already considering an 18" wheel for my quiver. I see you have both the Gotway Msuper v3, and 

Kingsong 18,  I'm curious which one you like more, and recommend? and which has more agile acceleration?

Thanks,Mark 

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I've started using the latest 1200W/1680Wh KS18 for my daily 6 mile commute (one of perks of the job). It took some time to build up the trust to cruise at the 20-25MPH range, but now a couple days in, it feels completely routine, the power of this animal is truly awesome. 

The 1200W is a big upgrade over the previous generation KS18s—KS has utterly no imagination on naming. 

Does anyone have a MSuper v3 in Florida for doing a head-to-head test with? 

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2 hours ago, Jason McNeil said:

I've started using the latest 1200W/1680Wh KS18 for my daily 6 mile commute (one of perks of the job). It took some time to build up the trust to cruise at the 20-25MPH range, but now a couple days in, it feels completely routine, the power of this animal is truly awesome. 

The 1200W is a big upgrade over the previous generation KS18s—KS has utterly no imagination on naming. 

Does anyone have a MSuper v3 in Florida for doing a head-to-head test with? 

@Duf should try and support the comparison test

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@Mrd777 Sooo....., I'm not completely sure I'm qualified to answer the question I think you are asking.

 

What I think you're asking:   Which one do you like more, the 2017 1200W KS-18B or the 1500W MSuperV3S+? (i.e. the latest models out, both I have never owned)

 

It seems important to distinguish, as:

  • for Gotway: the 67.2V operational MSuperV3's (personally never rode) do not exactly drive like the 84V operational MSuperV3S+'s (personally test rode)
  • and for KingSong: the 800W KS-18A (personally own) does not apparently drive like the newer 1200W KS-18B (personally never rode)

 

I can speak on the 800W KS-18A mkII, as I own this wheel and have ridden extensively.

I can speak on the 1600W Monster, as I own this wheel and have (now) ridden extensively (don't think you were considering this model).

And I can speak on the 1500W MSuper3S+ from a few hours, test-ride experience perspective only (not enough IMHO to intimately and definitively speak on the idiosyncrasies of an EUC).

* And also, the Monster rides different enough from the MSuper3S+ that you cannot infer the same ride even within the same GotWay family line (main difference, besides the implications of size/weight: Monster pedal response / resistance is significantly harder than the MSuper3S+ pedal response / resistance >> both wheels set to the hardest Sports mode)

 

As I have no direct owning experience of either current models, ..... Some observations partly based on this forum / partly based on my experience of previous generation (800W KS-18A) and sister models (Monster/MsuperV3S+):

  • Pedal Response / Hardness:
    • As @KingSong69 has continually stated on these forums, the newer 1200W KS-18B carries a harder pedal response / hardness / resistance than the previous 800W KS-18A (which was not the softest out there to begin with).
    • The MSuperV3S+ in Sports mode, on the other hand, is basically the softest pedals I have ever ridden on an EUC bar none (and I've ridden every brand).
    • Pedal hardness to begin with is a matter of personal preference, but if you are looking for the same brick hard response as your new V5F+, the KS-18B will be much closer than the MSuperV3S+
  • 5 hours ago, Mrd777 said:

    and which has more agile acceleration?

    Not sure what you mean by "agile acceleration", so let me break things down in comparison to what you know in the V5F+, as I own and intimately know that wheel as well:

    • V5F+: I would classify the V5 as most like "agile acceleration", as acceleration on this wheel is a consistent combination of torque-y-ness and ease across all its speeds, both accelerating from rest, and accelerating across the whole range of it's speed.

    • MSuper3S+: Acceleration here for the most part stays true to the Gotway signature acceleration: very floaty and effortless, very little resistance feeding back on your pedals while summoning a tremendous amount of power.

      • The only caveat here is acceleration from rest or accelerating uphill. If you don't know any better, you might be hesitant to lean harder in these situations (which was me previously) due to overlean cutouts, which most other EUCs would be subject to. However, the 84V Gotways (ACM 1300WH, MSuperV3S+ & Monster) I believe have better safeguarding / tuning as a result of the higher operational current (my theory), where you can lean extra harder than the average EUC and summon a tremendous amount of power for these situations. I would define these accelerations more as "power accelerations"  than "agile accelerations". (based on my Monster experience and corroboration with a fellow NYC MSuper3S+ owner)

    • KS-18B: I can't speak directly on KS-18B acceleration here, but, FWIW, a.) my 800W KS-18A acceleration is no slouch (falling somewhere in the middle of the V5F+ and MSuperV3S+ in terms of torque and ease), and b.) the newer 1200W KS-18B is supposed to offer more torque.
  • Speed:
    • MSuper3S+ reported safe max speed: 45km/h || KS-18B max speed: 40km/h ...... it is what it is.

 

And now, some annoyances to consider:

  • Quality Control:
    • There are already 3 concrete reports of MSuperV3/V3S+ gyro wires disconnecting due to bad solder jobs. This alone would give me pause in purchasing an MSuperV3S+ (to be fair, most owners have not experienced.... yet), and these stories are always in the back of my head while cruising on my Monster (I've already committed to monthly Control Board checks myself).
    • KingSong, on the other hand, while having had their own share of QC issues, have never had QC issues of the disturbing kind like the aforementioned Gotway MSuperV3/V3S+ gyro-soldering issue.
  • Cripple mode:
    • Both enter crippled, reduced speed mode way too early IMO, considering both battery packs are 1+kWh, but the current KingSong crippling is way way too early at sub-50% threshold (Gotway is sub-20%). Not a dealbreaker for me personally as I usually don't ride far below 50% on any wheel if I can help it, but annoying nonetheless.
  • Beeps:
    • Not mentioned much, but I find the lack of user-settable speed alarms on the Gotways annoying, unlike my KS-18. I personally don't like to ride with the phone apps, so like to custom set the speed alarms on my KingSong more as a speed indicator rather than a warning. (I believe Gotway is 2nd alarm = 34km/h or off, 3rd alarm = 80% power, no off).
    • Also, of note, while both companies offer tiltback, I am too scared to set on my Monster (currently off) due to reported cutouts from 62.7V operational MSuperV3 riders setting their tiltbacks too high (30+km/h). And, on the KingSong side, while tiltback works great, I would love the ability to turn it off, as too much tiltback occurrence seems to throw off calibration faster.

 

Unfortunately, no one on these forums, including me, AFAIK, has extensive owning experience with both the KS-18B AND MSuperV3S+, only one or the other.

 

Also, because of it's form factor, I personally don't really regard the KS-18 series (taller, rectangular) as a direct comparison to the MSuperV3 series (circular). The MSuperV3 handling compares better with other, circular EUCs, like the majority of 16" EUCs out (Ninebot One, InMotion V8, etc), while riding the KS-18 series, when you really put the time in, handles and turns differently.

 

If it were me, I would wait both to see if there are more MSuperV3S+ incidents, and what the specs turn out to be for the rumored due-out-this-year 2 new KingSong 18" models: KS-18B mk3(?) revision and the new form factor (rumored to be shorter) KS-18 (I myself am waiting, hoping KingSong makes the move to 84V operational as Gotway has).

I don't think you can really go wrong with either wheel, but I also don't think these wheels are the straightforward, head-to-head comparison you are assuming here; really depends on your priorities, preference.

Personally, I will stick to my current 22" Monster, and possibly upgrading (spec dependent) to the next KS-18.

Sorry for the long drawn-out non-answer~ :D

 

Also, if you're on FB, DM me your user name if you wanna be added to the NYC EUC group chat there; a lot of useful knowledge shared by local riders, as well as the occasional group ride.

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Great post! A small addition:

Gotway allows you to set the 3 riding modes (at least with my 84V ACM) so "pedal hardness" can be changed. "Leisure" is too soft imho (I feel unsafe, it's too wobbly), "medium" (standard) is very nice and feathery (on the soft side of exactly right), and "sports" is... pretty hard (I think, don't know any other wheels)  and you need to be attentive (only good for offroad is my guess).

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2 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Great post! A small addition:

Gotway allows you to set the 3 riding modes (at least with my 84V ACM) so "pedal hardness" can be changed. "Leisure" is too soft imho (I feel unsafe, it's too wobbly), "medium" (standard) is very nice and feathery (on the soft side of exactly right), and "sports" is... pretty hard (I think, don't know any other wheels)  and you need to be attentive (only good for offroad is my guess).

Ah, forgot to add, my MSuperV3S+ test ride was on Sports mode.

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On 2/19/2017 at 5:27 PM, Marty Backe said:

Any of you guys that feel that your MSuper is a bit on the unwieldy side, get yourself a Monster so that your brain can be re-calibrated B)

 I traditionally see a shrink for any brain re calibration. Much cheaper than spending $2500.:P It would be nice to hop on a Monster to gain some appreciation of the size and maneuverability. 

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On 2/19/2017 at 10:14 PM, houseofjob said:

Personally I never understood why people make such a fuss over 2 more inches

I need to let my wife know!

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13 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Wow, and the Inmotion is still "harder"? I will have to try one some time.

Without a doubt.

The V5 in particular (V8 is a smidge less hard (rather than "softer")) is the hardest EUC out of everything I've ever ridden/tried (all the wheels in my sig + MSuperV3S+, MCM4HS, IPS A130, KS14C 500W).

Might have something to do with the 14"-is-more-torque factor, just like how the MCM2 or MCM3 (?) guys claim this wheel is the hardest response they've ever experienced.

 

IMHO (for the older models, hopefully I'm remembering correctly), hardest to softest:

[Hardest] V5 > V8, Ninebot Ones (E+/S2) > Monster > KS-18A, KS-14C > IPS Zero, IPS A130, MCM4HS > MSuper3S+ [Softest]

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6 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Does this not make it harder (as in: more difficult) to ride? The sports mode already scares me a little...

Totally personal preference. 

Personally my main concern with hardness is in braking, which becomes slower with too soft a response, thus you need to anticipate obstacles more with softer pedals.

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Won't you just have to fall back "harder" to brake fast then? The wheel should still counterbalance? So it's a matter of easy braking vs trust in the wheel, as opposed to a real difference in functionality?

Are there emergency braking situations that will not work with a softer wheel?

Just asking the newbie questions...

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@meepmeepmayer both will be able to brake fine as one will always adjust.

Although I don't advise relying on emergency braking, though it does happen (travel speeds in relation to observing sight lines for potential obstacles, always yield to faster vehicles, profile the 'unpredictable' pedestrian types like the elderly and children), the harder response will enable you to do more last last minute "emergency braking", obviously.

For Gotway and KingSong, I'm usually prepping the brake with big speed bursts anyways, partly due to this reason, partly due to muscle memory, all due to fear.

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2 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

@Duf should try and support the comparison test

I bought two wheels from Jason already :)  If you have a reason to visit the west coast I'd be happy to let you take my Msuper for a spin.

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Amazing post HouseofJob, I really appreciate your effort here!  This forum, and its members have been incredibly helpful. 

Thanks.

mark

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1 hour ago, houseofjob said:

[Hardest] V5 > V8, Ninebot Ones (E+/S2) > Monster > KS-18A, KS-14C > IPS Zero, IPS A130, MCM4HS > MSuper3S+ [Softest]

and I think you can add Solowheel to the right end of this chain.

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