Jason McNeil Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 V8 arrived this morning , before being able to ride it, had to install the battery pack (shipped separately). Once I got the cover off, I thought I'd might as well strip the thing down, since I was half-way there... Here's the initial findings, keeping in mind that this is still a preproduction model. - Appearance: without the LEDs, looks like a big-brother version of the V5F - Battery swap process: In this prototype Wheel, getting out the battery pack is not a trivial exercise, requires removing two screws & unclipping the outer panel, which can be pain... - Handle: The handle quality is ok, just ok, but nothing like the quality of the V3 series - CB: Control-board heat sink is fantastic! Combination of the higher operating efficiency of the Wheel & this heatsink, should be the most immune against overheating - Pedals: Pedal size is identical to the V5 series - Tail-light: if that's what it can be referred to, is an illuminated Inmotion logo - Water resistance: The compartment inside where the handle resides does not look all that water resistant—probably doesn't matter all that much, as the water will drain away from the shell - Motor: Motor, tire & supports is 6.9kg, just 1kg more than the 14", besides the physical dimensions, is rated for 250W more. Motor cover appears to be magnesium instead of the typical aluminum - Mud-guard: There are no screws to insert the mud-guard - Outer cover clips: Several of the clips snapped off when trying to take the cover off, I might have used too much force, but this mechanism for opening up the panel definitely needs a rethink V8 and V5F+ Wheels compared V8 WITHOUT the battery pack (another 2.2kg) V8 Innershell & Continuous LED Strips Innovative V8 800W motor—that black Magnesium Panel looks really cool—the observant reader will notice an inconsistency 7.2kg vs 6.9kg report, this is becauseof a 300g pedal attached to the other side Outer shells, super-light, only 850g Control-board in situ Underside of the control-board, that's exposed to the Wheel-housing, nice fins! Typical setup, with a gap between the PCB and the MOSFET sink 30A fuse & 2x 220μF Capacitors, step-down transformer on the right. Weight of the control-board is 300g Trolley-extension, 350g, when extended there's a couple cm of movement.Might have used a bit too much force prying the out-shell apart, but the clips are obviously not strong enough to be taken off/on daily That about sums it up for now. Time permitting, I'll be testing the performance, handling, ride-quality aspects over the next couple days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverH Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 Looks promising. Well designed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 nice report... to call this design "easy exchangeable batterie"? ? ? seams just a little bit easier as on any ninebot and/or Mcm4 :-) So nice wheel, but because of the limited batterie nothing for me....even IF it gets a little bit easier to change the batterie, i am not willed to carry a 40 cell thingie with 2,2 kg around....with 60 cells directly, but then about 15 kg it would have been more an hard concurrent for the ks16... from technical side with the lightweight motor and the retracktable trolley its phantastic! my 2 cents... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houseofjob Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 44 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said: Might have used a bit too much force prying the out-shell apart, but the clips are obviously not strong enough to be taken off/on daily Yeah, even the official disassembly vid for the production model V5 series seems to emphasize ginger touch (haven't broken mine open yet)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason McNeil Posted August 9, 2016 Author Share Posted August 9, 2016 57 minutes ago, KingSong69 said: to call this design "easy exchangeable batterie"? ? ? seams just a little bit easier as on any ninebot and/or Mcm4 :-) Let's not be hasty, remember it's pre-production... What about the lights man! Three strips of disco lights to party all night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEC Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 2 hours ago, Jason McNeil said: Here's the initial findings, keeping in mind that this is still a preproduction model. I'm not sure how much differences (if any) there will be between your test model and the final product (at least the initial version) but I doubt IM will manage to perform any major changes like stronger / different shell clips or simplifying the battery swap and so on if they plan to ship completed wheels in a couple of weeks (Chines sellers claiming expected stock around 25 August). Thanks for posting the dissasembly detatils. Any chance you could also post exact dimensions of the battery pack and detailed picture of the charging plug (on the battery pack itself, not on the wheel)? Thank you! Looking forward to your first test ride. I guess the charger and DC charging plug / sockect are the same as on V5F/+? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEC Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 1 hour ago, Jason McNeil said: V8 WITHOUT the battery pack (another 2.2kg) Which will put the whole wheel just 50gr under 13.2Kg. What was the tire pressure at that time (as that influences the overall weight as well)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 32 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said: Let's not be hasty, remember it's pre-production... What about the lights man! Three strips of disco lights to party all night nothing hasty :-) like @HEC said...i can not imagine to get this a lot better...shell has to be taken off...and 3 different types of plugs to be installed...if there would be an easy clap mechanism for just the batterie...ok, but for this type the 40 cell batterie shape and weight is to big! like i said, i would have voted for 60 cells..."easy changeable" is something like the Ks14b....but not this design....for me at least... the disco lights? i also do not like them on Ks16...i am out of that age :-) i am in Germany...and there has been someone in our german discussion forum, where the police has confiscated his wheel...really! because at the end of the day you need a "license plate", general approvement of the wheel plus driving license! so to draw more attention at night? Not so good here :-( With an EUC the police is -at the end- not allowed to give you a "warning"...driving without license plate or driving license is a "criminal offense" here and you will at least get a hefty fine :-( OK, thats all not inmotions fault, but in general i like riding Euc's ...but dont need the attention of a moving wifi sign in the night....for me its childish. i see the EUC as great for commuting, last mile vehicle etc etc (and driving fun)....but not as a disco wifi light ;-) Inmotion has to be praised a lot the technical aspects, workmansship and progress they have done...but not for the design...to "toy"-ish for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason McNeil Posted August 9, 2016 Author Share Posted August 9, 2016 1 hour ago, HEC said: doubt IM will manage to perform any major changes like stronger / different shell clips or simplifying the battery swap Will hopefully find out tonight when IM comes online 29 minutes ago, KingSong69 said: the disco lights? i also do not like them on Ks16...i am out of that age :-) It was a joke, at least you can disable them here! 33 minutes ago, KingSong69 said: .but not for the design...to "toy"-ish for me Perhaps, but ask yourself 'why was the 9B1 so popular?' It was the heaviest 16" around at 14.6kg!, less batteries than your typical medium/high-end Wheel, had a really poor handle design that was never improved, smallish pedals, because of the comparatively small battery pack to KS/GW mediocre performance, it was also quite wide, with only medium weather protection. So in the end, consciously or not, I suspect a lot of first-time buyers bought it because it looked cool & was widely available. This V8 is unquestionable a big step up from the E+ or even the P, it will probably appeal to the same market as the 9B1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houseofjob Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 I can say for a fact that the more "disco lights" I wheel around with, the more attention and money / purchase-related questions I field riding around the New York City area (attention level: Ninebot & IPS Zero > InMotion V5F+ > KingSong 14C/18A). I'm sure a company like InMotion wants to make more profit to fuel further product development, and that profit comes from new, first-time buyers, not existing EUC owners, ie. Business 101. Plus, I'm not sure what the big deal is if you can just either shut off the ring lights, or disconnect them altogether. The unit becomes just a simple glossy black wheel then. Ninebot owners have been doing this for awhile now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 The lights kind of grow on you. I didn't think I'd turn them on with my Ninebot One E+, but I now I ride with them on all the time. I don't even see them actually so they are more for other people's enjoyment. One person thought there was liquid inside as I rolled by, and I've heard someone else mention that comment. It must look like the reflection of water or something. I use the blue/green spinning setting. If you ride at night, on a dark EUC, the lights give you much more visibility too to avoid being hit so that's a plus. But hey, they seem to be recycling everything else (MacGyver, Hawaii 5-0, etc) so don't be surprised if Disco makes a come back! Plus, I like ABBA! No shame in admitting that. Did you know there is an ABBA The Museum in Stockholm? If I had speakers, I'd be cranking this tune out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEC Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 8 minutes ago, houseofjob said: Plus, I'm not sure what the big deal is if you can just either shut off the ring lights, or disconnect them altogether. The unit becomes just a simple glossy black wheel then. Well maybe the effort and cost used on implementing a "flying circus" coud have been spent on some more practical features like proper tail & brake light, better / simplier battery swap or saved space used for either even a bit thinner design or more battery cells in the actual body of the whell - as already mentioned before 60 cell battery would satisfy many customers and would give V8 bigger edge comparing to lets say KS-16 ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houseofjob Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 6 minutes ago, HEC said: Well maybe the effort and cost used on implementing a "flying circus" coud have been spent on some more practical features like proper tail & brake light, better / simplier battery swap or saved space used for either even a bit thinner design or more battery cells in the actual body of the whell - as already mentioned before 60 cell battery would satisfy many customers and would give V8 bigger edge comparing to lets say KS-16 ... So don't buy it, it obviously wasn't designed for you; buy the KS-16. The beauty is having a diverse array of choices, not just everyone making the same wheel. (I'd like all what you're saying as well, but neither you nor me develop and manufacture EUCs for a living) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEC Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 1 minute ago, houseofjob said: So don't buy it, buy the KS-16. The beauty is having a diverse array of choices, not just everyone making the same wheel. I already have KS-16 and don't like the ligt on it either. Plus - using your advice IM would loose the sale ... Despite big design and quality progress shown by Inmotion I still believe they lack a proper market research especially in the "Western" counties. What's popular in China / East is quite different to more conservative West with much mature audience. I still say IM should produce two different models, one more targeted / customed to less "childish" customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houseofjob Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 18 minutes ago, HEC said: I already have KS-16 and don't like the ligt on it either. Plus - using your advice IM would loose the sale ... Despite big design and quality progress shown by Inmotion I still believe they lack a proper market research especially in the "Western" counties. What's popular in China / East is quite different to more conservative West with much mature audience. I still say IM should produce two different models, one more targeted / customed to less "childish" customers. I have no advice, just observations ; ) .... like how you bought the KS16B anyways despite the presence of disco lights = ) Here's another one: Ninebot sure seems like the biggest profitable company, having been backed by giant XiaoMi and able to outright takeover the grandfather of EUC, Segway, I wonder why? (just look up all the companies and number of people they employ in a LinkedIn search). And honestly, I've seen no one bring up the fact that this model and the way it's spec'd seems like it's targeted at all those Ninebot One E+ owners that have been, and are still waiting for an upgrade to their E+'s along the lines of what the P model was supposed to be; and there's been a ton of talk about the now defunct P (R.I.P.) on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason McNeil Posted August 10, 2016 Author Share Posted August 10, 2016 I've got to jump in to defend @HEC. He preordered a V8 from me as well, so he can't be all that biased . I totally agree that I like the discrete LEDs on the V5F+. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houseofjob Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 All good Jason, but now makes even less sense to me all this LED complaining. I find it hard to believe that implementing some simple, relatively inexpensive LED lights to attract new buyers, and bettering the range and design of a wheel are somehow 2 mutually exclusive events. And not to mention that the US is nowhere near the top priority market for EUC manufacturers in terms of buying power / market share (see: France, Singapore, etc.) thus do not dictate these company decisions as much as the preferences of those markets do. *End rant* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 46 minutes ago, houseofjob said: I have no advice, just observations ; ) .... like how you bought the KS16B anyways despite the presence of disco lights = ) Here's another one: Ninebot sure seems like the biggest profitable company, having been backed by giant XiaoMi and able to outright takeover the grandfather of EUC, Segway, I wonder why? (just look up all the companies and number of people they employ in a LinkedIn search). And honestly, I've seen no one bring up the fact that this model and the way it's spec'd seems like it's targeted at all those Ninebot One E+ owners that have been, and are still waiting for an upgrade to their E+'s along the lines of what the P model was supposed to be; and there's been a ton of talk about the now defunct P (R.I.P.) on this forum. @houseofjob I agree that Ninebot has the largest dealer network with all the Segway dealers they have. There is about 50 in the US alone. But the S2 is an upgrade over the E+. It has choice of one or two batteries, and diagnostics on the app. The only downside I see is that it is 14 inch tire, and it has less padding on the side. But padding is no longer needed once you have ridden enough miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason McNeil Posted August 10, 2016 Author Share Posted August 10, 2016 7 minutes ago, steve454 said: only downside I see is that it is 14 inch tire Comparatively speaking: - 160Wh less battery capacity - Lower speed - Have to carry, no handle - Lower pedals - No Side padding - Is not self-standing - Ninebot history of FW upgrades - Only one ring of disco lights! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xima Lhotz Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 This looks a little worrisome. Pressing down eg when changing the fuse could result in a direct short of the battery. As those wires are soldered manually they will not be of the exact same length so on some they could be longer or even grounded. (- touching the heat sink) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 I think the main problem is that if you have that many Disco lights you need speakers. The thing looks like a mobile vertical dance floor! But it's missing the music! The Ninebot has lower key accent lights like mood lighting so no music is needed. But with the V8, the lights just scream out at ya to "Boogie down!" You just can't have the Ying without the Yang! If riding these EUCs make me feel like I'm 14 again, and if riding with some flashing lights activated makes me a "childish" customer - then so be it! I'm all for the wild and crazy aspects of youthfulness! The lights give it a little more of that "wow" factor, and for some people, not all, they need more of that in their lives. I'm not gonna judge them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxLinux Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 3 hours ago, steve454 said: The only downside I see is that it is 14 inch tire I agree, that's a big downside compared to E+. I can't understand why NB would stop making a 16-inch wheel and make a 14-inch wheel instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 8 hours ago, Xima Lhotz said: This looks a little worrisome. Pressing down eg when changing the fuse could result in a direct short of the battery. As those wires are soldered manually they will not be of the exact same length so on some they could be longer or even grounded. (- touching the heat sink) That certainly looks a bit close... some millimeters between the ends of the wires and the heatsink? Maybe gluing a piece of rubber mat or plastic on the heatsink at that part would give some peace of mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloudust Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 6 hours ago, MaxLinux said: I agree, that's a big downside compared to E+. I can't understand why NB would stop making a 16-inch wheel and make a 14-inch wheel instead. I hope NB makes another 16 inch, too. longer range and faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 16 hours ago, Jason McNeil said: V8 arrived this morning , before being able to ride it, had to install the battery pack (shipped separately). Seems to be a nice wheel! You already had the chance to try it - how is the sound. Does it also have this high pitched PWM noise like KS/Gotway? 16 hours ago, Jason McNeil said: - CB: Control-board heat sink is fantastic! Combination of the higher operating efficiency of the Wheel & this heatsink, should be the most immune against overheating Could be. The heatsink itself looks nice! Also the mounting position (quite similar as with the ninebots?) is well choosen - with a heatsink at the "inner side" imho the best position for possible convection and cooling... The fins are oriented horizontal? For convection at standstill/low speeds vertical could/would be better? Or is the cooling of the "horizontaly" moving air at slow speed already more efficient than air movement by convection? They did not fix the Mosfets with screws to the heatsink as it seems from the picture - i hope this is only with the prototype! Can the PCB sanely press the Mosfets mechanically good and evenly enough to give nice thermal contact from the mosfet to the heatsink through the insulation foil? The transition from the mosfet to the heatsink (thermal insulation foil,etc...) is the most crucial part which can destroy any other measures easily... ;( Also the mosfets are as at all other wheels on one side at the border of the heatsink - so most of the heatsink is very inefficiently used... By the higher voltage (nominal cell voltages compared) and so lower current needed they could save something about 30% of the power dissipated than a comparable 16s cell wheel (if they use Mosfets with the same low Rdson. This only true for conductive losses. Switching losses stay the same) I am expectantly looking forward for the first practical test going up a hill at a hot day! Unfortionately by now only the 40 cells configuration is offered - by the higer voltage this means a lower current, but only "a little bit". Also the modern Li Ion cells have maximum current of 10A (some 20A) they already start with capacity degradation at quite low currents. So as heavy rider am very happy with my 16s4p pack But my last wheel is still quite new and until the next replacement will take place (hopefully) the evolution of wheels will go on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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