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Xima Lhotz

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  1. Hello everyone. This is a one year of usage review of the Xima Lhotz 340wh. I have the “old” version 30km/h 340wH and bought it for 1000EUR was only 1 place to get it (its now cheaper…) Short version for people who don’t have time. Would i buy it again or recommend= No. Images of faults below. Longer version for people who have a little more time The good Its a tank (shell wise) and can take a beating. The BMS+ control boars gives a great sense of security, it doesn’t shut off with low battery etc, it beeps+ tilt back and forces you to stop. The ride is fantastic both asphalt and trails, rocks and hills. It never hurts my feet. A general sense of not cutting out. I have riden this wheel in rain, snow, ice and summer without no problems. (i thought, see below) The bad Letters came of the moment i removed the protective film. (i don’t want the text but some might want that.) Not possible to set beeping on off och custom settings. No tiltback settings. App is OK, a bit slow and missing some features for me like the “new” version, engine power etc) I always use Kevins version and compared to new version of other apps it now feels very basic. The ugly Its marketed as a “tank / offroad” device with IP65 rating but this is not true. My front and rear leds have rusted and eventually shorted the LED control board while removing dirt from the leds. The inside of the wheel i covered in dust. The battery pack broke (broken connection after vibrations) so that had to be repaired, when will the next connection brake? Bit of an trust issue... No manual and explanation of all fault codes. Stainless steel handle plates rusted, its not all stainless steel. LED stripes broke side, front and rear. Would i buy again? Short answer, No. With everyday riding in all types of conditions 1 year of usage is not fantastic and i expected more. There are more powerful, higher wH fast wheels today and the reliability and quality on wheels like Inmotion V8 or ACM at almost the same prise is well worth it. I would have bought again if it held to all the claims and if it had a bigger battery: IP65, no dust + water entry in wheel and leds., Battery pack bracken due to vibrations!? its an offroad marketed device. Homepage, manual and support seem “off” there is a feeling they will disappear. 340wH is to little for hills and “offroad”. Upgrades: I recently moved to a place on a hill and every time i went home (with full battery) the low voltage alarm went off so i had to stop and this resulted in a DIY battery upgrade +180wH total 520 wH and after that no more low voltage alarms and i can go for 30km in 4 degrees C at 20+km/h average speed so now the wheel is great range wise. I can go 27+km/h up that same hill now. For me this wheel in its standard configuration is to weak with 340wH battery and only because of that i wouldn’t buy it again. Add to that battery pack failure due to vibrations + other issues and the answer is clear. Its been a great wheel to ride though before i lived on a hill (and after battery updates living on a hill) for almost a year coming from X8 but today the choice would be different. If IPS would build a wheel with updates that would fit my needs and with updates addressing all my concerns and faults i would buy IPS again solely because of the fantastic BMS+firmware+engine+ride combo that gives great trust. Images below: Have a good weekend! Image of back led with dust inside. Image inside the light. Rusted led chip. Backside of led stripe. Broken LED board control. Design flaw.. Broke LED stripes side. Rusted handle. Battery repair. Broken connection in battery pack. Repaired battery pack. I had to tape the pack tighter as there was a lot of "flex" between the different areas of the pack, this resulted in the broken connection.
  2. I was out ridning today and suddenly the wheel quit on me and started to beep continuously. I can start the wheel but after 10 sec the power button starts to blink twice, continuous beep, and tiltback so I'm forced to stop. IPS homepage is down and i can't find any manual describing the fault. @rayna903, @王月月 do you have any information about this? Maybe someone on this great forum have some info? See video for more information. Xima error.mp4 *Update A connection in the batterypack had snapped off due to vibrations.
  3. Xima Lhotz

    I give up EUC riding..

    Ok, as someone smart @flass posted before me, how can you tell? Unless you categorise people in groups regarding race, religion etc that coherent with what a french person is to that person? Ok, so i know that you are a respected member of this community but you took this to level 2. Muslims? How did religious beliefs enter this thread? You brought that up, how come? With some logical thinking Islam as a religion has nothing to do with this. This is just so categorising, stereotypical and wrong my jaw just dropped and my heart is pounding, "seems natural"? i can't believe this sentence. Muslim people?! Its a religion not a person! Unless, you know, you have a stereotypical image of what a person who has that belief system looks like and then you are racially profiling... What you are saying is that being Muslim makes you more prone to crime?! Do you even understand how many people you offended with that comment? There are more than 1.6 billion people that are muslim and you just took it upon yourself to include everyone that have the same religion. I am Swedish (born in Sweden to christianity but i only got baptised for the presents, so an atheist) (not that this matters in any way if i was born here or my religion) I'm personnaly offended (and many, many, many more with me) with your comment... With the same thinking you have (although this only applies to islam and muslims in you case, why?), all Christian, white, rich and privileged people are dangerous to democracy but we all know thats not the case, same thing with all other people in the world regardless of race, religion and belieif: https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/08/01/opinion/trump-democracy-institutions-destroyed.html Biggest racist massacre by a single gunman in the world was committed by a white Christian man: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utøya Don't get me started talking how not every white christian was included as a possible murderer (and a racist) after that (it wasn't even talked about), but when a muslim happens to be involved in some desperate act, every muslim in the world is included, and the news (and people) can't stop taking about Islam and muslims. Its so incredibly wrong! @Pingouin Im really sorry this happened to you, it must have been terrible. I really hope you get back on the wheel soon, and that this incident doesn't take away all the joy of riding a EUC. I'm sorry that i hijacked this thread (somewhat), but people need to be aware of what they are saying and how it affects others.
  4. Xima Lhotz

    I give up EUC riding..

    Ding, ding, ding! Exactly. The only reason to ask the question is to figure out if it fits (or not) the @LanghamP stereotype (ethnic appearance) of a "French" person. For everyone else this was irrelevant, no-one asked this question, because its totally irrelevant! Looks, religion, heritage as absolutely nothing to do with how a person behaves. We all know, there is only one reason to do that, to categorise people in groups due to physical appearance / heritage / religion and that is.... Yes, racism.
  5. Xima Lhotz

    I give up EUC riding..

    Why is this important for you to know? And what is a native French person? This comment reaks...
  6. Xima Lhotz

    gotway line-up

    Is there a new monster or is it the "old" one on preorder? That slick ACM photo threw me off with the smooth shading, looked like a new design to me :-)
  7. Xima Lhotz


    Wow, love the spec of this wheel! I think it looks fantastic in matte black, big want it now factor! Even if it's not finished I want one, I'll buy the testing unit! Have to dig out the roadracing leathers from the basement though. Any new information you can give us about this wheel?
  8. Xima Lhotz

    BMS specs for MSuper V3S 84v

    Is that a Gotway solder joint (on the output cables) or is the BMS redone? It looks to me like a cold solder and there is so much of the solder, is it done with a fire poker? If it's done by someone else with little or no experience well then it's understandable that it looks that way.
  9. Xima Lhotz

    EUC/ ACM Test Rig Failure

    While its good to know the temperature with the connectors it's not the hottest point. As they (connectors) has the biggest AWG the heat will be low(er) and with your insulation and shrink wrap there will be a big delay in heat transfer from the connector/cable to the sensor. The hottest part will be in direct contact with the insulation of the separate motor cables before they all enter the outer insulation (black pvc?). So if you could "peel back" the heatsleeves and place the sensor In direct contact with the motor cables (sourround them around the sensor exactly like you did at the connectors) ) then you would have a "better" reading of the actual temp. The cables will now be in free air so it will actually be hotter inside the motor cable (you could use some heat sleeve if you have to wrap around the sensor) then you would get the most accurate temperature reading simulating the "inside" of the engine cable. Will be fun to see what the experiment reveals in any case! What do you have for motor cable, is it 16 or 14 AWG? Forgot the picture :-)
  10. Xima Lhotz

    The Gotway Gods Destroyed My ACM

    Did it throw you off or did it beep and forced you to stop? A perfect example of the board coped with the overheat situation perfectly (if it didn't throw you off) but the wires aren't up to the task at hand even with the 84V version. (no surprise there) (Oh, so that tape and plastic sleeve is Ok for 200C is it, as the silicon cables? If designing around a 200C cable then ALL components must handle 200C in that chain) My guess is that the sleeve of the motor cable is not silicon and so that has an even lower temp rating. This situation has alway been about the cable and will continue to be about cables ( the solder melted in the connectors due to heat from the cable (16awg motor cable) The bullet connectors are fine, and are much larger than 14 awg and can easily handle the current (have not sen spec so guesswork based on size). Even with the "new and future proofing 14AWG motor cable" it will fail inside the motor cable where the cables touch in these situation, they are not in "free air". Or in the connectors/solder depending on the current in the cable and sourrounding temp. Its so easy to calculate the size of that cable according to current, and heat! A rider should NEVER EVER have to care about what the wheel does, then its always "Well I think this is fine, but you say its not" situation. Account for outside temp, previous hills, omg that its just not how it should work. And the constant worry "is this the hill, must i slow down, have the wheel been in the sun". Not a comforting enjoyable ride. The wheel warns if its to hot and forces a stop, and so the cables and connectors must be designed around the maximum continous output from the control board. End of story, problem solved.
  11. (Read that spec sheet wrong.. thank you @esaj for pointing that out)! The mosfet can handle 120A (package limit) but @ 10V not 84V and its also heat limited. See spec sheet: http://www.infineon.com/dgdl/irfb4110pbf.pdf?fileId=5546d462533600a401535615a9571e0b Have a look at figure 8, maximum safe operating area, It can only take 10A but for less than 100 usec if you have a voltage of less that 100V. So its very easy to burn a mosfet with the wrong firmware behaviour.
  12. Xima Lhotz

    MSuper Bucks after stopping on hill

    The cable is actually hottest inside the pvc casing as the conductor isn't in free air. It may look like the worst place is with the connectors but that's likely to the solder melting, creating a bad connection that causes sparks, smoke, sut at the point where it fails. Like putting a red hot iron inside a glove, touch it from the outside and it's still cooler, for a while before the glove catches fire. Touch the iron without a glove and you get instant burn but the iron will dissipate the heat faster. That why using heatsleeves is such a bad idea, it protects from the burn from the cable (or iron) from the outside but inside the sleeve it's hotter (and retains heat) and puts more stress on the cable. And sure as you say, at the time of failure due to increased resistanse, bad connection the heat is hottest at the connection at that point in time.
  13. Xima Lhotz

    MSuper Bucks after stopping on hill

    Lets assume they use this type of solder, with the 16AWG cable, it will still melt that solder i think. With this small cable and the high currents the heat that the conductor reaches is well over 200C. Lets take a known high quality cable 16AWG silicon insulation: http://catalog.connectronicscorp.com/Asset/WIREMAX-conductor-CURRENT--2-.pdf 16AWG cable, in free air, 30 degrees C, not bundled with no other wires gives 32 amps and then the core/conductor of the cable will be 200 degrees. The differens from 125C to 200C conductor temp is only 6 amps. So lets see, 3000W peak with 67V = 44 amps, 12 more amps. That conductor is now probably 300C or more and will melt any solder. And temperature rise is quick with these currents. This calculation is done on a (1) cable i free air, 30 degrees C, high quality silicon cable. Not bundled and not covered with a heat adding sleeves (this is not a fix) and then protected (bundled) by a PVC sleeve thats not designed for 200C and put inside a box (wheel) with a heat generating control board. This (melting) problem will always be here, in one shape or form (solder, wire, insulation) if they continue to use the same engine cable with 16AWG and don't raise voltage higher.
  14. Xima Lhotz

    MSuper Bucks after stopping on hill

    I think you might have problem with the engine cable as well (not surprised if thats true). The PVC casing looks melted, maybe you could provide a detailed photo of this area? And again, its been said before, the design is flawed, 16AWG for enginecable is to small for the current/power available and will always fail when pushed. More so with 67V engines. So when you fix your connectors and continue riding, your engine cable will melt through and trough in your usagecase. There is a reason battery cables are bigger (not just voltage drop) they don't melt, and the same current that goes through the battery cables will always go through the engine cables.
  15. Xima Lhotz

    A one year of usage review of the IPS Xima Lhotz 340wh

    Yes, the homepage have been dead for some time now. Yes clearly IP65 as the totally white open connector(s) from the control box can handle water. I bet that red and black wire is + and - with some type of voltage. Its like having a IP65 rated glovebox in you car but the doors doesn't have windows and saying, "This car is IP65 rated" with a strait face. I understand where they are going here, but its really bad, and this isn't listed on the official IPS page, its listed on a distributor page. Official IPS store, wheel listed as IP65 device, not the control box. https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01LY94P8F?m=A1RO1TBXM3SGUD&ref_=v_sp_widget_detail_page
  16. Xima Lhotz

    A one year of usage review of the IPS Xima Lhotz 340wh

    Its with the old control board that doesn't work with iamips app. It also doesn't have RGB led function, but it does have RGB leds installed. Yes, thats the reason i bought it, i wanted to be able to ride in any condition. IP class 65 is (from wikipedia) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_Code : 6 = Dust tight, No ingress of dust; complete protection against contact (dust tight). A vacuum must be applied. Test duration of up to 8 hours based on air flow 5 = Water projected by a nozzle (6.3 mm) against enclosure from any direction shall have no harmful effects. Its nowhere close to this spec. Yes, these devices shake a lot (every small bump or stone) so it really needs to be well designed with very solid battery packs. Its complete false advertising and is nowhere close to true. Really bad. Buying it with this as one of the main reasons gives me a bigger feeling of non satisfaction with IPS. (maybe bigger then if you just bought it not knowing / wanting IP rating). Really basic things, too bad IPS doesn't recognise this.
  17. The fact you got 3 12AWG wires through that hole displays great patience. Yes, this is so true. The silicon cables (that are clearly marked 200C 14AWG) from the board looks to be quality cables while the engine cable (regardless of spec) is not. And while fire might not be the most scientific (but most fun ) test it does display what happens to cables over time if they are subjected to heat (read current) thats higher then they are designed for. They dry and fall apart.
  18. Sure, it says they are listening and wants to fix problems and this is great. Maybe next time they will change the engine cables to :-) Yes, can't believe that they need convincing, the science is free, calculate according to load, heat and cable specs and your done! Yes, this is the worst part, many riders use their wheels daily without problems but how does one know? What heat, hill, heat build up during a ride, board temp, bump, start, stopp etc will be the deciding factor when you have a cable as limiting factor. The limit should be current output from the board and the cables should then be designed around that current and temp. You have already been that someone By posting your thread you contributed to the development and got a ball rolling! Thats great!
  19. Sorry, this is not the problem, the cables are to small for the current. And they still touch before they all connect before going in ti the engine cable. I think your point of failure was right before the cables connect in the engine cable. Well they do run next to each other, inside the engine cable, same current inside of that small cable and now they are not i free air. Again, this is not the fix, this only makes the cables hotter as they are not in "free" air. If you need heat protection from "outside" heat then the cables are to small. It will, to small cable for the current. If the smaller engine cable is good enough for the current then why is the battery cable of a bigger type? Its not just voltage drop. The current that goes through the battery cable will go trough the engine cable that is much smaller. Its not dimensions properly and thats why its melting and not the battery cable. We haven heard or seen of battery cables melting, because they are the right dimension and therfore works properly without heat sleeves. I don't want to rant Gotway or worry users but its not fixed at all. I actually want an ACM so i really want them to do it properly. With the correct dimensiond cable for the current.
  20. Xima Lhotz

    Gotway ACM 1600 Autopsy and Mods

    Found some places where you (might) buy motor cable by M if you wanted to change to a bigger mm2 to cope with current. I have not bought from them or know anything about the links. Could not find the same cable with with Aliexpress och DH gate, might be searching for the wrong thing. Its Chinese but google translate is your friend https://nxtmarket.info/item/14237135816 http://www.86mall.com/p/tie-fu-long-gao-wen-xian-tong-kun-hui-er-te-KFVR3X155X02dian-dong_42219591243 https://world.taobao.com/item/37416796283.htm?fromSite=main (this site recommends 3mm2 for 2000W motor and 500W for 1,5mm2) I think the diameter of the cable 1,5mm2 is 5,7mm and 3mm2 7,7mm but thats just a guess from the pictures! "Funny" thing with all cables, its silicon wires (200degrees C conductor temp) for the engine cables, but the cable is then protected by a PVC sleeve, max temp 80-105 depending on PVC. So max temp is then 105 degrees or the PVC will break / melt with time.
  21. The important thing here is that 200 degrees is not the surrounding temp, its the temp of the conductor in the cable. And this is the maximum temp and should never be used for design. @Rehab1 Its really fun looking at the dismantling of your wheel Do you have a photo of the engine cable markings? It would be fun to find the specs of that cable. A single, silicon, 16 AWG cable, in free air, at 30 degrees C, with a current of 30A has a conductor temp of 200 degrees. (according to this specific table but its all about the same (silicon insulation with copper conductor) http://catalog.connectronicscorp.com/Asset/WIREMAX-conductor-CURRENT--2-.pdf Adding 3 cables, bundled, overheat alarm with surrounding temp of 70+C = Not fantastic.
  22. I think this has little to do with skineffekt and all to do with to small wire for the current (and heat). It might contribute a bit but its all about the amps. In bends, only thing that protects the copper is the insulation and when in a bend the cables (copper) are "pressed" against the pvc. Even without heat you can get "cold short" due to bending the cable more than the minimun specified diameter over time. All tables look reasonable but the cables are in free air, surrounding temp of 20 to 30 degrees, not bundled and no type of isolation of the copper is specified (pvc, pex, silicon etc) and also no heat sources are accounted for. This example is for 1 phase 230V AC Swedish installation rules (but its all the same, almost but the connection to temperature is clear): And this is for continuous 24/7 situations and a design temp of 70 degrees (for the cable) constant with PVC insulation. The conductor in that cable will be 70 degrees when 10A goes through it. 10A calculation with pvc 70 degree insulation. If i was to design a cable that should hold 10A then usual cable is 1,5mm2 (16+ AWG) with sourrunding temp of 25 degrees C. If the surrounding temp is increased to 60 degrees then i would need a 4mm2 (11 AWG) cable for 10A! 30A calculation 25 degrees C = 6mm2 cable (9 AWG) 60 degrees C = 25mm2 cable (3 AGW) *This is not saying this is the requirement for a ecu only to show the current / heat relation. To sum up, the resistance in the cable creates heat and the cable is designed around the max temp of that cable. If we increase the surrounding temp then we must decrease the heat generated by the cable with a bigger mm2 to account for that external heat generated so the cable doesn't get to hot.
  23. All the info can be found on the motor cable something like: "3x1.0mm + 5x0,2mm2" If it is 1.0mm2 then = 17AWG. *Its 1,5mm2 = 16+ AWG, found a video that shows the correct information.
  24. Are you sure? From the pictures in the thread it looks like 3x1.0mm2 (17AWG) cables to the motor from the markings on the motor cable. *Wrong, found video, its 1,5mm2 = 16+ AWG.
  25. So the motor cable is 3x1.5mm2 (around 16+ AWG) + 5x0,2mm2 (for hall sensors). (found a video that shows it) So lets assume that the motor cable is made from silicon with a max temp of 200 degrees (thats insanely hot and should only be the result of a short and never under normal circumstances) Lets assume a high 125 degrees C for speculation Looking at this http://catalog.connectronicscorp.com/Asset/WIREMAX-conductor-CURRENT--2-.pdf The maximum current of a 16AWG is 26A at ambient 30C, but thats 1 cable i free air (not inside a box with heatgenerating mosfets) and the cable is now 125C! = Hot! Combining 3 16AWG cables you get a factor of 0,8: 26*0,8 = 20.8A and thats in free air not inside a hot casing 26A = 200 degrees = failure. So then for design purposes lets say max output is 2500W / 84V = 30A then 40 * 0,8 (not free air) = 32A = 40A cable for design. According to the Wiremax table then we need 14AWG = 2mm2 cable = and this is 30 degrees ambient (a hot sunny day and a black wheel and big hills and overheat protection at 80 degrees well, then you need to design cables for that situation so this is for some situations to small for my liking) Me i would design around 90 degrees, so a 12AWG = 3,3mm2 cable almost double in whats installed today to be perfectly safe. * Disclamer The motor cable might not be made from silicon so then we need even bigger cables. The load might be somewhat devided along the 3 motor cables / don't know DC engines enough, i only know 3-phase design and there the situation is different. There are many other things to consider in the design but if you have design the wheel to constantly use maximum power then you need big cables.