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Is EUC a Way of Travel Or is it a Sport???


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On whether helmets increase the risk of neck injuries:

Summary article: https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/755251

Study: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29506463/

The answer is no.  They actually reduce risk of neck injury based on statistical analysis.  Sure, there could be some cases where they could cause neck injury where lack of a helmet would have avoided the injury, but statistically that would occur less often.  In those cases, by not wearing a helmet, maybe a neck injury would have been avoided, but a more serious head injury would have occurred instead.  No way to know without studying that specific circumstance.

That said, what Elliot doesn't say in his diatribe is that if he's so concerned with neck injuries from helmets, there are ways that risk can be reduced with a neck brace in addition to a helmet.  Now you have head and neck protection.  People often wear neck braces in motorsports, but are less likely to wear them in street riding; although it certainly wouldn't hurt if you wanted to be extra safe.  I believe the EUC streamer Alexis was wearing a neck brace.

As someone whose had a cervical injury from a combination of bad sleeping habits to weaken the spine and head contact in hockey causing a disc bulge... even the more minor spinal injuries are no joke.

Edited by upL8N8
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42 minutes ago, upL8N8 said:

you can be the best rider in the world, and still have a car rear end you or cut you off.  Happily it doesn't happen to the majority of us, but to the people it does happen to, wearing the right safety gear may very well minimize damage or even save your life.

Like the guy with the open compound fracture in the other subforum who has no memory of what happened, but all signs point to a hit and run driver. He was wearing a mountain bike helmet with no impact safety certifications, just MIPS which in isolation is virtually meaningless. There was no way for him to prevent whatever happened to him, and if he was wearing a Snell or ECE helmet he probably would know what happened.

Edited by eezo
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On 8/10/2023 at 4:20 PM, Nostris said:

This give a totally false sense of security, and can lead to irresponsible and stupid riding practices .

I’ve seen plenty people ride irresponsibly and stupid without any gear. Actually out of the ones without gear, a higher percentage of riders seem to ride irresponsibly and stupid.

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It can be both dont forget to have fun, also the 2 alternatives mentioned by threadstarter are a little absurd.

Hobby or sport ?   Maybe both
Commuting or fun generator ? Maybe both
Off road or on road ? Maybe both...
VIsit nature or urban areas? Maybe both....

There are def many ways of enjoying your EUC(s)  My dog loves my EUC rides:

 

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  • 5 months later...

 

Answering here to a comment from another thread.

1 hour ago, Mono said:

But then, I hate that I only see people looking like aliens when I search for EUC related videos done by experienced riders and how this shapes the (probably wrong) perception of how EUCs are mostly used. I don't hate these guys though, I just hate the fact that they dominate the perception which isn't really in their control either.

Yes, this is why we don't get those small and "slow" wheels for commuters. The best way to sell wheels for manufacturers is through YouTube -> give wheels to most watched YouTubers -> best way to get views is to do something crazy like jumping or riding really fast -> most views are for crazy riding -> most wheels are sold through these riders -> most wheels are made for these riders. A normal sensible commuter wheel just doesn't get the attention to gain new users. 

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SAfety gear for EUC looks funny but its def needed.  Yeag EUC looks kinda funny for most ppl....... so what? 

Edited by Finn Bjerke
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49 minutes ago, Finn Bjerke said:

SAfety gear for EUC looks funny but its def needed.  Yeag EUC looks kinda funny for most ppl....... so what? 

Yes it's needed, but not really. If you ride fast and with cars - ofc you need it. Going slower on sidewalks - not really.

3 years - no gear at all in winter (i got that puffy jacket and puffy gloves..):D Sliding on ice/snow - not a problem. Even going fully down. This winter already went down 2 times. As for summer i'm mostly using only wrist guards. When i go for "fun" rides then i gear up with knee/wrist guards and helmet.

So far - So good. I don't even count winter slides/falls as they are pretty normal/expected. As for summer, only time i will crash is when euc stops working - so be it. I'm okay with that.

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9 minutes ago, UniVehje said:

Yes, this is why we don't get those small and "slow" wheels for commuters. The best way to sell wheels for manufacturers is through YouTube -> give wheels to most watched YouTubers -> best way to get views is to do something crazy like jumping or riding really fast -> most views are for crazy riding -> most wheels are sold through these riders -> most wheels are made for these riders. A normal sensible commuter wheel just doesn't get the attention to gain new users. 

Right, I'd be slightly more specific and say that this is about wheels mainly for shorter commutes and for the last miles of commutes in mixed transportation mode.

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9 hours ago, UniVehje said:

A normal sensible commuter wheel just doesn't get the attention to gain new users. 

Attention - no, no it doesn't. But new users would prefer a sensible commuter.. The sweet middle ground of EUC world. Same speed as most electric bikes, scooters. Same time lighter and more compact and boost a lot more range.

 When i bought my 18xl. I saw in store Sherman.. V11/12.. All kind of bigger EUC's. But i didn't want any of them. I knew what speeds i wanna go and how far. So i bought most sensible EUC for me. And after 3 years - now i want something even lighter. Size - i don't care. And it can go even 10km/h slower and have half of my 18xl battery for all i care.

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7 minutes ago, Finn Bjerke said:

"Safety gear not really needed"  is extremly risky methinks. 

It makes you ride more recklessly - you take more risky moves knowing you got "safety net". At least some do..

I haven't had any mishap in summer, because i ride very defensively. Good thing everyone can choose themselves what to wear. :) 

My old man with his ks16s have ridden 2x more than me and have no gear what so ever.

Edited by Funky
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On 1/19/2024 at 2:11 PM, Funky said:

Yes it's needed, but not really. If you ride fast and with cars - ofc you need it. Going slower on sidewalks - not really.

3 years - no gear at all in winter (i got that puffy jacket and puffy gloves..):D Sliding on ice/snow - not a problem. Even going fully down. This winter already went down 2 times. As for summer i'm mostly using only wrist guards. When i go for "fun" rides then i gear up with knee/wrist guards and helmet.

So far - So good. I don't even count winter slides/falls as they are pretty normal/expected. As for summer, only time i will crash is when euc stops working - so be it. I'm okay with that.

I ride every day with zero gear, have for almost eight years now. I ride on the street with cars but super defensively and nothing too crazy, top speeds 50-60kmh. I assume every car is going to do the wrong thing at the wrong time and adjust my speed accordingly or even stop if I'm not sure they've seen me. I had two run ins with cars in the early days, one on a sidewalk, one in a cross walk. I learned from those to ride super cautiously on sidewalks because cars will often cross your path unexpectedly there due to there being so many blind corners, and that cars don't always stop in time for crosswalk traffic so never assume they will.

Having made those adjustments I get along just fine.

In roughly five thousand trips on a wide variety of wheels, I have never had a wheel randomly quit on me even though I am extremely hard on them in winter particularly. This is not a reason to wear full gear for experienced riders on casual rides. Not saying there are no reasons, just that this isn't one of them.

The statistic that matters about motorcycle helmets is that they only increase your survival rate (on motorcycles) by about 30%.  People put way too much faith in them, assuming the magic powers of the helmet will allow them to ride dangerously and consequently wind up in the hospital with various other serious injuries. Our one fatality here, and most of the other wheel fatalities I'm aware of, have been riders with helmets coming in contact with motor vehicles. Also, some helmets occasionally give riders severe concussions from falls they would otherwise walk away from. Also, we have a number of super talented riders here who wear full gear; they seem to be in and out of the hospital fairly regularly with all sorts of non-head related injuries due to all the extreme stuff they do. (Shout out to Canadian health care here...)

My opinion: most but not all of the people screaming for gear haven't been riding long enough to trust their wheels. I had the same feeling the first couple of years, wondering if the wheel was going to fall over spontaneously while carrying heavy-old-me up some of our steeper hills. But I know my wheels now. And many of the long time riders I know, even those with over the top gear they ride for group rides and whatnot, have relaxed a bit and will go without gear the occasionally.

 

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Didn't read all the thread:
I'd hope it is a way of travel before it is a sport.

It saddens me that actual useful transport use hasn't been the priority for manufacturers for years. It has been off-road, then some more off-road, and a little racing. All these are play usages. The US is over represented on YouTube because of reasons, and with car dependency being bonkers, EUCs are apparently just toys for grownups, and that's what you see on YouTube, and the feedback the manufacturers get.

In my part of the world there is ton of riders who do so for transport, because the culture and infrastructure allows it. They don't film themselves jumping for YouTube, they are busy going to work or wherever, and because of that they are not much represented.

It downright depresses me to see people drive their EUCs around in trucks.

Edited by null
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2 hours ago, null said:

I'm close to 40K Km and trust my wheels, what I don't trust is myself and others :) 
(Not pushing gear on anyone though)

fair enough

 

55 minutes ago, Funky said:

I don't really trust my wheel even after 3 years.. (It can stop working any given moment) And yet i don't really gear up. I simply ride slower without gear. :D 

I always tell people that falling off a wheel is a drop of about six inches and eminently survivable.:)

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It has been off-road, then some more off-road, and a little racing. All these are play usages. 

Ehhh I dunno.  I need off-road capability for some of my commutes; there's crappy broken pavement, loose gravel, mud, and of course Canadian winters.  Developing racing capabilities can make a wheel that's more suitable for driving in traffic (which I generally avoid).  This is like car manufacturers who develop tech for race cars that eventually trickles down to consumer models.

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2 hours ago, null said:

Didn't read all the thread:
I'd hope it is a way of travel before it is a sport.

It saddens me that actual useful transport use hasn't been the priority for manufacturers for years. It has been off-road, then some more off-road, and a little racing. All these are play usages. The US is over represented on YouTube because of reasons, and with car dependency being bonkers, EUCs are apparently just toys for grownups, and that's what you see on YouTube, and the feedback the manufacturers get.

In my part of the world there is ton of riders who do so for transport, because the culture and infrastructure allows it. They don't film themselves jumping for YouTube, they are busy going to work or wherever, and because of that they are not much represented.

It downright depresses me to see people drive their EUCs around in trucks.

Wheels as a way of travel is inevitable; they are just way too convenient and productive long term, not even counting the pressure to reduce car use in cities for environmental and traffic reasons. I don't mind the adventure stuff because it breaks new ground for us in the same way that auto racing has propelled car tech forward over the years. The only problem is that right now in many places the balance is too much adventure and too little transport, but that'll change as time goes by.

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3 hours ago, macgyvercanada said:

Ehhh I dunno.  I need off-road capability for some of my commutes; there's crappy broken pavement, loose gravel, mud, and of course Canadian winters.  Developing racing capabilities can make a wheel that's more suitable for driving in traffic (which I generally avoid).  This is like car manufacturers who develop tech for race cars that eventually trickles down to consumer models.

The thing is - it's the other way around. EUC's are getting bigger, faster, heavier only.. No trickling down.

I think most places have somewhat same crappy broken pavement place to place.. You still can ride with mTen4 without much trouble. Will it be comfy ride? Ofc not, but doable.

I have taken my 18xl everywhere. True forest dirt paths, to gravel roads, to asphalt, to beach sands, to feet deep snows, to ankle deep waters - No problem. EUC capability and size doesn't matter.

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1 hour ago, Funky said:

The thing is - it's the other way around. EUC's are getting bigger, faster, heavier only.. No trickling down.

I think most places have somewhat same crappy broken pavement place to place.. You still can ride with mTen4 without much trouble. Will it be comfy ride? Ofc not, but doable.

I have taken my 18xl everywhere. True forest dirt paths, to gravel roads, to asphalt, to beach sands, to feet deep snows, to ankle deep waters - No problem. EUC capability and size doesn't matter.

Oh yeah, don't get me wrong - my little V8F has a knobby tire and it's keen to go everywhere that its range will allow.  It always surprises me how well it performs for its size, though I have issues with its light weight and low pedal height; it's not easy to turn.  That said, every time I hit the big expansion joint in the bridge on my way to work my butthole puckers up and I wonder whether I've finally dented the wheel.  The V8F has a 2.125" tire and no suspension, which is suitable for a child but with my 190 lbs. I think I'm pushing well beyond its intended limits.  I've also got a few thousand miles on my V11 with its 3" tire and OG suspension; it brings a much higher level of confidence in the wheel's ability to handle any terrain.  I think that adding suspension improves the ride quality much more than an increased tire size, but each type of suspension has its own flavor of added complexity and maintenance.  I am perfectly capable of tinkering but I don't much enjoy it, so I gravitate toward wheels with larger tires and simple suspension.

You're not wrong about "bigger, faster, heavier".  I don't need to race, or do huge jumps, or have a rolling dance party, I just want to go on a long expedition on not-so-gnarly trails, get home safe through an unexpected rainstorm, and then carry my wheel downstairs.  With all that, I think my ideal wheel would be a 3/4 size Lynx which doesn't exist.

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The mindset of bigger faster etc. is what progressed us into the medium sized and suspension wheels in the first place, -- I'll take a V11, S18, 18XL over my old V8 and V5F every day of the week, I thank my lucky stars I don't have to ride those anymore. Can't be too surprised they didn't stop at those wheels, especially since people seem willing to pay for the big and costly wheels coming out right now.

But even there, lots of little things that go into big wheels will eventually be used to make medium wheels better too. We're already seeing a bit of a rebound, with smaller wheels (by today's standards) in the T4 and the S19. I'd expect that to continue since there can't be a huge market for a 70mph, $8k wheel.  Surely we've reached the limit for ultra-wheels...

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40 minutes ago, winterwheel said:

The mindset of bigger faster etc. is what progressed us into the medium sized and suspension wheels in the first place, -- I'll take a V11, S18, 18XL over my old V8 and V5F every day of the week, I thank my lucky stars I don't have to ride those anymore. Can't be too surprised they didn't stop at those wheels, especially since people seem willing to pay for the big and costly wheels coming out right now.

But even there, lots of little things that go into big wheels will eventually be used to make medium wheels better too. We're already seeing a bit of a rebound, with smaller wheels (by today's standards) in the T4 and the S19. I'd expect that to continue since there can't be a huge market for a 70mph, $8k wheel.  Surely we've reached the limit for ultra-wheels...

Doh T4 and S19 isn't a "small & lightweight" in any means.. :D They are still in heavy class. The ones you mentioned before - V11, S18, 18XL are the medium class. And still not a lightweight.. V8, V5 is the right ones. And by today - we could get really fast/powerful lightweight wheels.

1500W wheel with at least 1000Wh battery under 20kg weight is doable.

Edited by Funky
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