King Song S22 suspension settings

[novazeus]

i give up. i have internet problems. another company that sucks big time, at&t!

[Rawnei]

44 minutes ago, novazeus said:

not in this one. 300 miles!

 

While this should not be excused it also comes down to poor QC and not a design flaw.

[novazeus]

45 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

While this should not be excused it also comes down to poor QC and not a design flaw.

idk. i don’t know how the wheel was abused.

could be the broken slider frame that broke is designed perfectly with the correct materials.u asked where i saw this and i found if using dial up internet.

but one hole in the frame was definitely broken.

i’ve owned cadillacs and jeeps. if i took the cadillac around the ranch, and it fell apart, i woukdn’t blame gm. if i took the jeep cross country and my back hurt for days afterwards, i wouldn’t blame jeep for a shitty ride.

there sb enthusiasts wheels, like gotway/begode and point a to point b safely on the mean streets and sidewalks for humans looking for transportation without paying taxes and insurance.(tag, license, etc)

i don’t want the govt involved, they are idiots!

but humans can’t keep buying defective products from a company and think they’ll change. the accountants won’t let them.

btw, i know zip about china’s laws, but they must have teeth because when i lemoned the vw toureg in 2020, the chinese humans were already getting theirs recalled and ignoring the pleas from the rest of the world. was a class action lawsuit developing. like when i sued ford in 2000. unfortunately, that’s the way of the world. only do a good job under the threat of punishment. no morals. sad.

haha, wait until it’s ur turn and u need healthcare like i did, now we’re talking about something important.

had i listen to moffitt, usf, u of f, shands, 

i’d be dead instead of trying to make my s22’s suspension better.

i’d like to add more tension to the spring now but undortunately, ks didn’t include a tool to do that.

i honestly think it’s good enough for me anyway.

not worth my mechanical skills to rebuild.

Edited January 7, 2023 by novazeus

[Rawnei]

9 minutes ago, novazeus said:

idk. i don’t know how the wheel was abused.

could be the broken slider frame that broke is designed perfectly with the correct materials.u asked where i saw this and i found if using dial up internet.

but one hole in the frame was definitely broken.

i’ve owned cadillacs and jeeps. if i took the cadillac around the ranch, and it fell apart, i woukdn’t blame gm. if i took the jeep cross country and my back hurt for days afterwards, i wouldn’t blame jeep for a shitty ride.

there sb enthusiasts wheels, like gotway/begode and point a to point b safely on the mean streets and sidewalks for humans looking for transportation without paying taxes and insurance.(tag, license, etc)

i don’t want the govt involved, they are idiots!

but humans can’t keep buying defective products from a company and think they’ll change. the accountants won’t let them.

btw, i know zip about china’s laws, but they must have teeth because when i lemoned the vw toureg in 2020, the chinese humans were already getting theirs recalled and ignoring the pleas from the rest of the world. was a class action lawsuit developing. like when i sued ford in 2000. unfortunately, that’s the way of the world. only do a good job under the threat of punishment. no morals. sad.

haha, wait until it’s ur turn and u need healthcare like i did, now we’re talking about something important.

had i listen to moffitt, usf, u of f, shands, 

i’d be dead instead of trying to make my s22’s suspension better.

i’d like to add more tension to the spring now but undortunately, ks didn’t include a tool to do that.

i honestly think it’s good enough for me anyway.

not worth my mechanical skills to rebuild.

Doh mixing up posts.

Ah it looked to me like the holes weren't where they were supposed to be, like not aligned correctly on the frame.

Edited January 7, 2023 by Rawnei

[novazeus]

14 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

Doh mixing up posts.

Ah it looked to me like the holes weren't where they were supposed to be, like not aligned correctly on the frame.

idk, this doesn’t look like an alignment problem to me, unless the holes were drilled incorrectly. and that would mean all s22’s frames would have this pronblem, unless they are drilling freehandedly.

[Rawnei]

16 minutes ago, novazeus said:

idk, this doesn’t look like an alignment problem to me, unless the holes were drilled incorrectly. and that would mean all s22’s frames would have this pronblem, unless they are drilling freehandedly.

Very odd, seems like it would take a lot of force to break that!

[Paul A]

5 hours ago, novazeus said:

at&t wireless 5g and it's about as good as dial up

 

Maybe use Starlink.

[novazeus]

2 hours ago, Rawnei said:

Very odd, seems like it would take a lot of force to break that!

i agree. that's why i take these videos with a grain of salt. i think it's great that humans abuse the shit out of their wheels for fun, that's their enjoyment, because i figure if they can take that abuse, then they shouldn't fail on me. 

headroom.

[Paul A]

The gap in the screw hole is quite wide.  If it is from misalignment of drilling, it has missed by a large margin.

 

The positioning of the gap is not at the top or bottom vertically.

It is left/right.  On the inward side, towards the center.

Difficult to imagine generating a lateral stress force strong enough to breakthrough. 

Although the snapped screws indicate that there has been strong stress forces.  But in a horizontal/lateral direction?

[novazeus]

idk if there's a video or instructions on setting sag on the s22, but how are y'all turning that knurl nut to tighten the spring? 

now that my sliders are better, i wanna get more coil spring. 

[Tawpie]

3 hours ago, novazeus said:

idk if there's a video or instructions on setting sag on the s22

no specific instructions, set it up like you would a mountain bike... 20-30% of the travel for sag

3 hours ago, novazeus said:

how are y'all turning that knurl nut to tighten the spring?

BRUTE FORCE. Literally. But if you lay it on its side and pull the wheel out as far as it'll come, that relaxes the pressure on the spring. Then just grip the spring tightly with your hand and turn, the knurled stopper at the top will turn with the spring.

[novazeus]

14 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

no specific instructions, set it up like you would a mountain bike... 20-30% of the travel for sag

BRUTE FORCE. Literally. But if you lay it on its side and pull the wheel out as far as it'll come, that relaxes the pressure on the spring. Then just grip the spring tightly with your hand and turn, the knurled stopper at the top will turn with the spring.

i finally got enough turns just by putting back on my stands i built. it's lik 50/50 sitting on the battery packs/foot pegs and tire.

never rode a mountain bike. i have about an inch drop when i get on it. so far i think the suspension is fine. no neec to work on it. 

i did 5 clicks to hard and 5 clicks to slower rebound. seems fine to me. not as loose as chooches demo, but idk if his is correct. not really a suspension expert. 

with this big knobby and now that the sliders aren't glued in place, it's fine. i'll derinitely try backwards trolleying tmrw. or i'm gonna have to build a walkway.

[Tawpie]

The best advice I have for setting wheels up is "try stuff, find out". This especially applies to suspension. My starting point was getting sag to 20%ish (an inch is about 20%). Next is setting rebound... start with it full fast and drop off a curb or another typical bump. It'll probably feel a little like a pogo stick, so turn the rebound slower until you just barely pogo stick. Last is compression (blue), and that's strictly adjust-to-suit. And remember that you have a rubber pneumatic "suspension" component in there as well, something that can be adjusted.

I am looking for control-in-the-bumps more than plushness, so I tend to have a faster rebound to get the tire back to earth quickly. But that also makes the ride harsher so my conpression is on the very soft settings.

Edited January 8, 2023 by Tawpie

[novazeus]

15 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

The best advice I have for setting wheels up is "try stuff, find out". This especially applies to suspension. My starting point was getting sag to 20%ish (an inch is about 20%). Next is setting rebound... start with it full fast and drop off a curb or another typical bump. It'll probably feel a little like a pogo stick, so turn the rebound slower until you just barely pogo stick. Last is compression (blue), and that's strictly adjust-to-suit. And remember that you have a rubber pneumatic "suspension" component in there as well, something that can be adjusted.

I am looking for control-in-the-bumps more than plushness, so I tend to have a faster rebound to get the tire back to earth quickly. But that also makes the ride harsher so my conpression is on the very soft settings.

u know, i was just reading the guy wanting to know how low he could go tire pressure wise, that was the case before suspension wheels, getting suspension from flat tires, but now, u don't really need to run low pressures.

[Rawnei]

8 hours ago, novazeus said:

idk if there's a video or instructions on setting sag on the s22, but how are y'all turning that knurl nut to tighten the spring? 

now that my sliders are better, i wanna get more coil spring. 

According to this you should not set sag, if you feel your spring is too stiff or too loose you need a different rated spring:

 

[novazeus]

5 hours ago, Rawnei said:

According to this you should not set sag, if you feel your spring is too stiff or too loose you need a different rated spring:

 

thanks for that!

so, i'm presuming when he's talking about the knurl collar touching the spring, is that with the weight of the wheel being supported. like the method to loosen the knurl collar is lay it on it's side unloaded. i mean the threads are so tight, several turns only moves it a fraction.

before i adjust it again, i'll wait for king songs mobile service rv shows up in tampa, haha.

i'm a little thick, so pls help me. if i measure the pedal height with me not on the wheel, and it's 9", let's say, then i get on it, and the pedal height is 8", is he saying that this 750 pound spring is too small? or is he saying, u just barely touch the spring and don't care what the rider weaight compresses the spring.?

i'm still confused how to set it, if it matters at all. i get the impression from him, it doesn't.

be nice if king song had a real informative video of proper set up for their design. mountain bike with two wheels is very different from a wheel i would think.

[Rawnei]

1 hour ago, novazeus said:

thanks for that!

so, i'm presuming when he's talking about the knurl collar touching the spring, is that with the weight of the wheel being supported. like the method to loosen the knurl collar is lay it on it's side unloaded. i mean the threads are so tight, several turns only moves it a fraction.

before i adjust it again, i'll wait for king songs mobile service rv shows up in tampa, haha.

i'm a little thick, so pls help me. if i measure the pedal height with me not on the wheel, and it's 9", let's say, then i get on it, and the pedal height is 8", is he saying that this 750 pound spring is too small? or is he saying, u just barely touch the spring and don't care what the rider weaight compresses the spring.?

i'm still confused how to set it, if it matters at all. i get the impression from him, it doesn't.

be nice if king song had a real informative video of proper set up for their design. mountain bike with two wheels is very different from a wheel i would think.

I think it's difficult to set it up exactly right as a) There's no markings to use b) Who knows what right?

 

So you have to be subjective here and go after how it feels for you, you definitely want sag suspension needs to have room to move in both directions.

 

Disclaimer: before even thinking about swapping spring one should upgrade the sliders because it changes everything and how a spring felt on the stock sliders will not be the same on wheel sliders, changing spring before hand will be a waste of time and money and an abyssmal change compared to changing sliders

[Tawpie]

8 hours ago, Rawnei said:

According to this you should not set sag

It’s generally understood that you should not use preload to adjust sag. Most coilover shock manufacturers recommend going up in spring rate if you need more than 2-3 turns of preload to get to your desired sag. But you should still set sag (by selecting your spring rate) so that you’re operating the suspension in its preferred range of motion.

This is where some have “issues” with coil vs air shocks. Air shocks are fairly easy to field adjust for different weight riders, coil shocks require a coil change. The flip side is that a coil shock doesn’t leak and never needs adjustment!

Another note: a lot of mountain bike advice is aimed at trying to eek that last bit of performance from your suspension when you’re bombing down a run on the clock. Few EUC riders find themselves needing uber fine adjustments… we’re rarely making timed runs! Unless you like the details, set it and ride, adjust the knobs to suit your taste and don’t worry if the experts might think you have it set wrong.

Edited January 8, 2023 by Tawpie

[litewave]

4 hours ago, Tawpie said:

It’s generally understood that you should not use preload to adjust sag. Most coilover shock manufacturers recommend going up in spring rate if you need more than 2-3 turns of preload to get to your desired sag. But you should still set sag (by selecting your spring rate) so that you’re operating the suspension in its preferred range of motion.

This is where some have “issues” with coil vs air shocks. Air shocks are fairly easy to field adjust for different weight riders, coil shocks require a coil change. The flip side is that a coil shock doesn’t leak and never needs adjustment!

Another note: a lot of mountain bike advice is aimed at trying to eek that last bit of performance from your suspension when you’re bombing down a run on the clock. Few EUC riders find themselves needing uber fine adjustments… we’re rarely making timed runs! Unless you like the details, set it and ride, adjust the knobs to suit your taste and don’t worry if the experts might think you have it set wrong.

Are you still using the stock coil? Iirc you (planned to) purchased a lower-rated replacement.

Would be great to read your review if ever so inclined.

[Tawpie]

On 1/8/2023 at 1:59 PM, litewave said:

Are you still using the stock coil? Iirc you (planned to) purchased a lower-rated replacement.

Haha... I have a lot of coils now! 350, 500, 600 and the stock 750. Plus some too short 550 pounders.

Before I cleaned out the grease/glue, the 350 couldn't raise the unloaded unicycle back to the top of the suspension travel. Clean things out and add dry silicone, and the 500 lb with probably 6 turns of preload is what I'm riding now and I do like the way it rides. I don't like that much preload, but it's necessary to overcome the remaining static friction and raise the wheel when I get off. The result is very good road feel but still nicely planted over bumps—not quite as cush as my reworked S18 but pretty close. When the roller sliders go in I'll mount the 600 lb/in spring because I'm anticipating another significant reduction in friction… folks that were using lighter springs have reported that they went back up to the stock spring once the rollers were installed. On the other hand, the riders that did that are jumpers and really need a stiffer suspension than I so maybe I'll start with the 500.

My current thinking is: when I climb on I want to have about an inch of pedal sag (from full unloaded position) with only 2-3 turns of preload, and I believe I want the wheel to pop back to almost the top of the suspension travel when I'm off. But all that's just a starting point, we'll see how it feels.

I'm holding on the roller install until I get more POM wheels from CN, my kit had bubbles in most of the wheels and I'd rather start with ones that have as few defects as possible. And I'm still waiting for a replacement motor so sort of wanted to do the bulk of the work in one (long) session.

 

Edited January 10, 2023 by Tawpie

[litewave]

1 hour ago, Tawpie said:

Haha... I have a lot of coils now! 350, 500, 600 and the stock 750. Plus some too short 550 pounders.

Before I cleaned out the grease/glue, the 350 couldn't raise the unloaded unicycle back to the top of the suspension travel. Clean things out and add dry silicone, and the 500 lb with probably 6 turns of preload is what I'm riding now and I do like the way it rides. I don't like that much preload, but it's necessary to overcome the remaining static friction and raise the wheel when I get off. The result is very good road feel but still nicely planted over bumps—not quite as cush as my reworked S18 but pretty close. When the roller sliders go in I'll mount the 600 lb/in spring because I'm anticipating another significant reduction in friction… folks that were using lighter springs have reported that they went back up to the stock spring once the rollers were installed. On the other hand, the riders that did that are jumpers and really need a stiffer suspension than I so maybe I'll start with the 500.

My current thinking is: when I climb on I want to have about an inch of pedal sag (from full unloaded position) with only 2-3 turns of preload, and I believe I want the wheel to pop back to almost the top of the suspension travel when I'm off. But all that's just a starting point, we'll see how it feels.

I'm holding on the roller install until I get more POM wheels from CN, my kit had bubbles in most of the wheels and I'd rather start with ones that have as few defects as possible. And I'm still waiting for a replacement motor so sort of wanted to do the bulk of the work in one (long) session.

 

Wow, that's quite a collection of springs. I'm thinking that I will install a 600 on day 1 when my new S22 finally arrives, based on your and other reports. I purchased both a 300 and 600 late summer. I think the 300 made sense until the community realized that the sliders were just sticking badly and needed to be decrusted and thoroughly cleaned. @UniVehje seems to like the 300, though, and we are all about the same weight, so maybe we can figure out the best use cases. I'll certainly report back when mine *finally* arrives.

Like you, I canceled my order in September after being on the wait list for more than a year when the motor debacle erupted. I nearly purchased an eevee's special on Black Friday, but held back since I did/do not have the time to spend rebuilding a batch 1 or 2 wheel. Now I'm back on the list for the upgraded model with (hopefully) roller sliders and an improved motor.

I (and others, I'm sure) very much appreciate the invaluable contributions that you and the other S22 early adopters @Elliott Reitz@supercurio@Rawnei@5Cauac@gon2fast, @UniVehje, and our genius Russian comrades, along with the S18 pioneers @Rehab1@fbhb, and several others (sorry if I left anyone out). Those of us on the sideline, but most of all Kingsong, are indebted to you for your efforts.

 

[Elliott Reitz]

12 minutes ago, litewave said:

Wow, that's quite a collection of springs. I'm thinking that I will install a 600 on day 1 when my new S22 finally arrives, based on your and other reports. I purchased both a 300 and 600 late summer. I think the 300 made sense until the community realized that the sliders were just sticking badly and needed to be decrusted and thoroughly cleaned. @UniVehje seems to like the 300, though, and we are all about the same weight, so maybe we can figure out the best use cases. I'll certainly report back when mine *finally* arrives.

Like you, I canceled my order in September after being on the wait list for more than a year when the motor debacle erupted. I nearly purchased an eevee's special on Black Friday, but held back since I did/do not have the time to spend rebuilding a batch 1 or 2 wheel. Now I'm back on the list for the upgraded model with (hopefully) roller sliders and an improved motor.

I (and others, I'm sure) very much appreciate the invaluable contributions that you and the other S22 early adopters @Elliott Reitz@supercurio@Rawnei@5Cauac@gon2fast, @UniVehje, and our genius Russian comrades, along with the S18 pioneers @Rehab1@fbhb, and several others (sorry if I left anyone out). Those of us on the sideline, but most of all Kingsong, are indebted to you for your efforts.

 

Well I've tried an air-shock (a bit short), and 550, 450 and 350 cut to fit, then a 350 compressed, all before installing the CNC rollers.  Before the rollers it got so stuck it was like no suspension.  Now, I've not changed the 350 lbs x 190 mm spring compressed.  I have tried more/less preload as well as more/less damping/reboud dials.  I've ended up about 5 clicks from max compression and max rebound(slow) and the preload at around midrange (using spring compressors to mound/adjust).  I like it the way it is.  I do some 1' curb drops and normal bike trails mostly with my dogs.  I've done a bit of commuting with it (including a big pothole strike at speed that it handled)... and now with the CNCs... its as good as a suspension can get (IMHO). 

Edited January 10, 2023 by Elliott Reitz
mm

[MetricUSA]

What is the point of installing sex bolts on the suspension arms if they are not the right side!!!! Upper one is about .25 mm short and the bottom one is almost 6 mm short!!! KS really knows have to fuck it up... 

[litewave]

34 minutes ago, MetricUSA said:

What is the point of installing sex bolts on the suspension arms if they are not the right side!!!! Upper one is about .25 mm short and the bottom one is almost 6 mm short!!! KS really knows have to fuck it up... 

So what are the exact specs of the bolts you used to replace them? That would be very helpful. Thank you.

[MetricUSA]

I have not tried yet but another rider said he bought a 80 and 75 mm from 

https://m.aliexpress.us/item/2251832179877555.html