King Song S22 suspension settings

[novazeus]

i haven't even set mine yet, i think it must be on lock out because there's no play.

i'd like to hear how people are tuning their stock suspensions, with their weight and the terrain they ride on.

tmrw i'll play with my shock and report back. if i can figure it out. 

[Tawpie]

4 minutes ago, novazeus said:

i think it must be on lock out because there's no play.

It has no play because in their infinite wisdom, KS added "grease" to the sliders and they used a compound that may start out greasy, but it turns literally to glue. And the bolts they used to attach the top and bottom of the shock are too short so if they tightened everything properly (not a given), the suspension is bound up.

You need to take it apart, clean out the 'grease', and shim out the bolts that attach the shock. It's relatively simple, but tedious. After I did that, I ran the system dry (no lube of any kind) for a while and it rode like a sports car. I've since squirted dry silicone in, and it rides like a compact car. Eventually I'll get roller sliders—and it should ride like a Cadillac.

[novazeus]

i'm just looking for tips how to adjust the knobs. and spring.

Edited December 18, 2022 by novazeus

[Tawpie]

26 minutes ago, novazeus said:

i'm just looking for tips how to adjust the knobs. and spring.

Ah. The spring is adjusted by grabbing it with your hand and brute force turning it... at the top of the spring is a retainer that will screw in and out. It sets the 'preload' of the suspension, how much of the suspension travel is used by just standing still on the wheel.

The blue knob on the top adjusts the 'compression', either soft or firm. It sets how easy it is to compress the suspension. When it's set to soft, the ride is more like a Cadillac. Hard is more sports car.

The red knob on the bottom adjusts the 'rebound', how quickly it will try to force the wheel back on the ground. Fast rebound can make it a bit pogo-sticky, if the rebound is too slow the suspension can 'pack down' if you go over a lot of bumps really quickly.

All of the adjustments are "to rider taste", there's no right or wrong setup. The mountain bikers have a lot of great videos on how to set up a suspension, but the main thing is to experiment and find what you like. S22 has a "coil over" or "coil" suspension. S18 has a pneumatic/air suspension... lots of debate on which is better or worse, but air is easier to adjust for different rider weight and coil tends to be more consistent (because there's no air to leak out)

Edited December 18, 2022 by Tawpie

[novazeus]

13 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

Ah. The spring is adjusted by grabbing it with your hand and brute force turning it... at the top of the spring is a retainer that will screw in and out. It sets the 'preload' of the suspension, how much of the suspension travel is used by just standing still on the wheel.

The blue knob on the top adjusts the 'compression', either soft or firm. It sets how easy it is to compress the suspension. When it's set to soft, the ride is more like a Cadillac. Hard is more sports car.

The red knob on the bottom adjusts the 'rebound', how quickly it will try to force the wheel back on the ground. Fast rebound can make it a bit pogo-sticky, if the rebound is too slow the suspension can 'pack down' if you go over a lot of bumps really quickly.

All of the adjustments are "to rider taste", there's no right or wrong setup. The mountain bikers have a lot of great videos on how to set up a suspension, but the main thing is to experiment and find what you like. S22 has a "coil over" or "coil" suspension. S18 has a pneumatic/air suspension... lots of debate on which is better or worse, but air is easier to adjust for different rider weight and coil tends to be more consistent (because there's no air to leak out)

thanks for that. the instructions given with the shock is crap. my spring pre-load is cranked all the way down. that's probably why it doesn't move. 

i figured out the s18 somewhat after fixing the valve stem. 

like, how far down is ur retainer on the spring preload. 

mines all the way down from the factory, or it was pre own by lizzo.

Edited December 18, 2022 by novazeus

[Tawpie]

The shock manufacturers generally like to see no more than 3 turns of preload, if you need more than that to set the sag then you need a stiffer spring! That said, with the sticky sliders a lot of preload is needed to force the wheel back down to the ground. I'd start by unscrewing it all the way, then get it tight enough so the spring doesn't move. Add 2-3 full turns after that and see... it should compress when you jump up and down but it should also be able to lift the wheel back up when you get off it.

When it's working properly (like with the roller slider mod), the wheel will go up a bit when you get off, and compress a bit when you get on. It's unlikely you'll get there with the stock setup though. Impossible if you don't remove the 'grease'.

The spring will be a bear to move... lay the wheel on its side and extend the wheel as far as it will go, this will unload the spring. You might need a grippy glove, I have to use two hands. There is a specialty tool that turns the retaining cap, but it's a waste of money.

Edited December 18, 2022 by Tawpie

[novazeus]

i'm gonna ride tmrw for the first time in 4 years almost. 

just did a big slug of my medical cannabis and watched a video of chooch almost going down with speed wobbles, which i think is more like a tank slap in motorcycles where the wheel leaves the surface slightly and comes back down not in line with the mass. i had one once and it still scares me. didn't go down, but my life flash in front of my eyes. had to be God.

so yeah. between my medicine and just watching that video, crazy. 

cept one thing, i don't go fast. i had a zo6 that supposedly went 205 mph. i drove it slower than my trucks. it's a race car, but u don't have to drive it that way. like my ktm superduke r, it made up for my lack of riding skills, like going too hot into a corner. 

look, i could have gotten kicked in the head tn by my cows, not being a karen here, but i can't hardly watch these single track riders just grazing trees, cause i used to do that too on my dirt bike on the ranch as a young adult, until i got hurt. 

those damn trees don't give.

Edited December 18, 2022 by novazeus

[novazeus]

my needs here are strictly utilitarian.

if i can get across my pastures at any speed, that will be amazing. 

and i'm hoping theses suspension wheels will help.

[novazeus]

12 hours ago, Tawpie said:

The spring will be a bear to move... lay the wheel on its side and extend the wheel as far as it will go, this will unload the spring.

oh shit, i missed that. i'll try again.

i did get it unloaded. ur right, it is a bear to move, and i'm a cowboy.

somebody will 3d print a spanner tool, for cheap, i hope.

i ut it upside down. wasn't as smart as u!

but yeah, it's stiff. maybe after riding it will loosen up. hey, better than a straight axle.

[level9]

21 minutes ago, novazeus said:

oh shit, i missed that. i'll try again.

i did get it unloaded. ur right, it is a bear to move, and i'm a cowboy.

somebody will 3d print a spanner tool, for cheap, i hope.

i ut it upside down. wasn't as smart as u!

but yeah, it's stiff. maybe after riding it will loosen up. hey, better than a straight axle.

I saw a video where someone taped the spring to the adjustment collar and then just turned the spring. Much easier.

Although IMO not much point in adjusting the spring and knobs until the slider mechanism has been dealt with in some way. It's just way too sniff out of the box.

 

[novazeus]

3 minutes ago, level9 said:

I saw a video where someone taped the spring to the adjustment collar and then just turned the spring. Much easier.

Although IMO not much point in adjusting the spring and knobs until the slider mechanism has been dealt with in some way. It's just way too sniff out of the box.

 

my spring was set up for lizzo i think. i have a little movement now. 

but i definitely understand the slider problem. what material are they made of?

the modification doesn't look too difficult. hopefully kingsong will send out new sliders and produce a video on the best, easiest way to change them out.

if ur gonna wish, u might as well make it a good one.

[novazeus]

laying it on it’s side was an excellent idea.

someone should tell king song.

tmrw i’ll take the s22 out to my 2x4 setup and jump up and down to see if it loosens up any.

is there a way to clean and relube them without taking it apart?

[Tawpie]

5 minutes ago, novazeus said:

is there a way to clean and relube them without taking it apart?

You could try flushing the channels with acetone or perhaps even WD40 and doing a lot of jumping up and down on it to swish things around (I know, I know, WD40 is not a lubricant… but we're going for zero lubrication to start!), the challenge will be getting it in there. Mind the vapors and all that nanny stuff.

Folks that use spray PTFE have to keep spraying it, I've only shot mine twice with dry silicone and it's performing as well as can be expected. BTW, the 3M stuff (3M 08897) is acetone based, so it might clean and lubricate in one step. Probably not though, I'd clean first. Mixing lubricants often doesn't turn out as well as one might hope.

Anyhow, simple flushing might work. The 'grease' that was left on my rubber stoppers has turned to a waxy substance while sitting on my bench. Whatever it is, it's not the right stuff.

[Tawpie]

Oh. I know it's a pain to take it apart, but I always take my new (and used) wheels apart to check things out and tighten all the fasteners I can see. It's not just KS, all the manufacturers have issues getting things assembled properly. These things remind me of mid 70s American automobiles assembled on Tuesdays.

I also pull them apart a couple-four times a year depending on how hard I've been using them just to assure myself that nothing is working its way loose, no wires are chaffing, no plastic screw bosses are broken. There's very little room for error with self balancing, and the designs are minimum viable product class.

[novazeus]

1 hour ago, Tawpie said:

Oh. I know it's a pain to take it apart, but I always take my new (and used) wheels apart to check things out and tighten all the fasteners I can see. It's not just KS, all the manufacturers have issues getting things assembled properly. These things remind me of mid 70s American automobiles assembled on Tuesdays.

I also pull them apart a couple-four times a year depending on how hard I've been using them just to assure myself that nothing is working its way loose, no wires are chaffing, no plastic screw bosses are broken. There's very little room for error with self balancing, and the designs are minimum viable product class.

if i do all that, i'll wait and hope king song sends out a fix. if not buy aftermarket.

[novazeus]

1 hour ago, Tawpie said:

Oh. I know it's a pain to take it apart, but I always take my new (and used) wheels apart to check things out and tighten all the fasteners I can see. It's not just KS, all the manufacturers have issues getting things assembled properly. These things remind me of mid 70s American automobiles assembled on Tuesdays.

I also pull them apart a couple-four times a year depending on how hard I've been using them just to assure myself that nothing is working its way loose, no wires are chaffing, no plastic screw bosses are broken. There's very little room for error with self balancing, and the designs are minimum viable product class.

ur the one to ask, i wanna get a set of tools to work on these, specifically t-handle allen wrench set and maybe a long phillips bit. 

since u wrench on urs alot, pls note what ur using and lmk what i need.

i ordered a leatt 4.0 mtb enduro helmet, leatt elbow guards, leatt gloves, and leatt knee guards, all for around $235 delivered. from cambria bike.

[dredwheel]

2 hours ago, Tawpie said:

You could try flushing the channels with acetone or perhaps even WD40 and doing a lot of jumping up and down on it to swish things around (I know, I know, WD40 is not a lubricant… but we're going for zero lubrication to start!), the challenge will be getting it in there. Mind the vapors and all that nanny stuff.

Folks that use spray PTFE have to keep spraying it, I've only shot mine twice with dry silicone and it's performing as well as can be expected. BTW, the 3M stuff (3M 08897) is acetone based, so it might clean and lubricate in one step. Probably not though, I'd clean first. Mixing lubricants often doesn't turn out as well as one might hope.

Anyhow, simple flushing might work. The 'grease' that was left on my rubber stoppers has turned to a waxy substance while sitting on my bench. Whatever it is, it's not the right stuff.

I feel like I've learned more about my s22 from your comments than I have from countless youtube reviews and Reddit posts. 

[novazeus]

10 minutes ago, dredwheel said:

I feel like I've learned more about my s22 from your comments than I have from countless youtube reviews and Reddit posts. 

without this forum and help from other riders, euc manufacturers would die. 

king song should put kuji on the payroll and let him help them communicate with their customers. 

[Tawpie]

I'm really happy with mine... I preordered in Aug 2021, cancelled when the motor problem came to light, and bought during eevee's big sale (with the promise of a replacement motor, dealer installed). I was emotionally prepared for much worse, but honestly—cleaned up the sliders and added some shims and it's been golden. Firmware revisions have made it plenty peppy and I really like the ability to see my cell voltages because I can see there's no out-of-balance condition and I can have it stop charging at 80-90%. In my new-wheel-teardown only 1 screw didn't meet my tightness preference—that's consistent with my other KS wheels. IMO, if you take care of the grease and shock bolts it lives up to its promise really well. The roller sliders will be icing on the cake, but as I keep riding it I'm no longer 100% certain I'll bother spending the money.

I'm happy I can help... heaven knows I've gotten way more from others on the forum than I can ever give back, but I try!

[dredwheel]

I just found a guy in the Atlanta area that's willing to install new suspension sliders and a new tire.

Unfortunately, the myewheels link for the CNC sliders is gone now. 

Anybody know where to order new sliders? Or should I wait for KS's official solution?

[Paul A]

36 minutes ago, dredwheel said:

Anybody know where to order new sliders?

 

Maybe email 'myewheel' from their website 'contact us'.

[Tawpie]

5 hours ago, dredwheel said:

Anybody know where to order new sliders?

I got carried away and ordered a set of 8-wheel sliders from an unknown source in CN. It looks like they at least shipped, and I have no idea if they'll work or not. Taking a pretty big gamble. I'll let y'all know how it goes... 🤞

Edited December 21, 2022 by Tawpie

[dredwheel]

5 hours ago, Tawpie said:

I got carried away and ordered a set of 8-wheel sliders from an unknown source in CN. It looks like they at least shipped, and I have no idea if they'll work or not. Taking a pretty big gamble. I'll let y'all know how it goes... 🤞

Please do! I just got word back from myewheels.

 

"Yes, we are still selling them and shipping to the US is possible. However for the moment we have removed them from the website, because we found out that the bearing roller wheels we have ordered have out of spec inner diameter and fall out of the slider shafts on many of the kits. We have returned them and will order a new batch. When they arrive and we check them, we will bring the kits on the website.

I cannot give any concrete expected date, but I think, since holidays are coming up, the middle of January is most likely when we will have them available. 

Just for your information, the price is 220 EUR for the sliders and shipping to the US is around 37 EUR, based on latest prices."

 

Mystery solved. I like the idea of options. Exciting stuff for the s22! It's grown on me, and I find it hard to ride the V10f for anything more than lazy, bluetooth, christmas carol jaunts around the block.

[Paul A]

18 minutes ago, novazeus said:

i wonder why king song is being so quiet about it?

 

KS might be investigating a strange sound coming from the new motor.

This is a video from Dec 21, 2022.

A viewer made a comment of what might possibly causing the sound.

Kevin's reply as well.

 

NY

3 days ago

"SORRY FOR THE UPPER CASING BUT I'M TRYING TO CATCH YOUR ATTENTION!" THAT BIRD YOU ARE HEARING IS COMING FROM YOUR BEEPER, REMOVE THE COVER TO GAIN ACCESS TO THE BEEPER AND MOVE IT AWAY FROM THE SMALL ROUND CAPACITOR THATS JUST ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THE BEEPER/WIRES. ITS CAUSING AN ELECTRICAL INTERFERENCE.LEAVE IT UNCOVERED, MOVE THE BEEPER TO THE RIGHT AND ROLL THE WHEEL WITH THE COVER OFF. THERE SHOULDN'T BE ANY NOISE AFTER. FIND THE RIGHT LOCATION TO ATTACH THE BEEPER AND REINSTALL THE COVER. THE BEEPER IS ONLY HELD ON WITH DOUBLE SIDED NEOPRENE FOAM, IT TENDS TO LOOSEN ITSELF AND SHIFT CREATING THAT BIRDIE NOISE. LET US KNOW IF THIS WORKED OUT FOR YOU?

 

 

 

EUC UPGRADES

3 days ago

You may be right. Interference from the electronics can cause the sound amplifier to produce this noise. I will try putting shielding in and see if it stop the interference.

 

 

[novazeus]

20 minutes ago, Paul A said:

 

KS might be investigating a strange sound coming from the new motor.

This is a video from Dec 21, 2022.

A viewer made a comment of what might possibly causing the sound.

Kevin's reply as well.

 

NY

3 days ago

"SORRY FOR THE UPPER CASING BUT I'M TRYING TO CATCH YOUR ATTENTION!" THAT BIRD YOU ARE HEARING IS COMING FROM YOUR BEEPER, REMOVE THE COVER TO GAIN ACCESS TO THE BEEPER AND MOVE IT AWAY FROM THE SMALL ROUND CAPACITOR THATS JUST ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THE BEEPER/WIRES. ITS CAUSING AN ELECTRICAL INTERFERENCE.LEAVE IT UNCOVERED, MOVE THE BEEPER TO THE RIGHT AND ROLL THE WHEEL WITH THE COVER OFF. THERE SHOULDN'T BE ANY NOISE AFTER. FIND THE RIGHT LOCATION TO ATTACH THE BEEPER AND REINSTALL THE COVER. THE BEEPER IS ONLY HELD ON WITH DOUBLE SIDED NEOPRENE FOAM, IT TENDS TO LOOSEN ITSELF AND SHIFT CREATING THAT BIRDIE NOISE. LET US KNOW IF THIS WORKED OUT FOR YOU?

 

 

 

EUC UPGRADES

3 days ago

You may be right. Interference from the electronics can cause the sound amplifier to produce this noise. I will try putting shielding in and see if it stop the interference.

 

 

yeah i saw that. i could never hear what they were talking about.