Begode T4

[Cerbera]

1 hour ago, FarkyJ said:

just quick question....so i read this thread from time to time...anyone would you suggesr that t4 is a wheel to really easy to work on?doing basic maintence or some tinkering as a project wheel even?

Yes. Simply built, easy to get into.

[Mango]

Very easy to work on and tinker with. Plus, it is an extremely fun urban and trail wheel.

[Ben Kim]

On 12/13/2022 at 3:43 AM, daniel1234 said:

How does your T4 rides under sub-zero temperatures guys? I have a dilemma If I should switch tire on T4 for knobby one.

Kind of scared I will kill myself with a random low temp cut-out. 

I just rode in temps between 0-1C last night and this wheel surprisingly doesn’t suffer from winter voltage sag as much as other wheels. I still would not accelerate too hard when it’s below freezing though. 

[StefanBRO]

Does anyone have any idea why my v2 wheel has been giving a very slight judder at very low speed occasionally? It just feels like a tiny vibration for a split second. Yesterday I updated it to the 2204 firmware and as I was testing it about a mile into the ride I felt the judder / vibration at low speed and EUC world reported the voltage dropping to 0.1 volts and my safety margin went to -20,000. I swear I'd noticed it before the firmware so I don't think it's related to that. The wheels only got 450 miles on it and it's pretty much exclusively street, I've dropped off a handful of curbs but nothing intense.

Edited December 15, 2022 by StefanBRO
Spelling and wheel revision

[pHghost]

4 hours ago, FarkyJ said:

just quick question....so i read this thread from time to time...anyone would you suggesr that t4 is a wheel to really easy to work on?doing basic maintence or some tinkering as a project wheel even?

From what I can tell, it seems really straightforward. It is pretty much the motor, mounted on suspension, batteries mounted around it and all wires going into a separate motherboard box. Can't really imagine a much simpler setup.

Maintenance on some bits might be limited by available parts, but otherwise fine. I'm already exploring some small rubber seal upgrades around screws and so. 

[pHghost]

22 hours ago, Cerbera said:

I was able to re-grease the bearings with LiquiMoly Marine grease, and it has been fine in the month I've been riding it since. That operation is detailed in this thread, for the Master of course, but I imagine they are similar.

You mention in the thread that you didn't need to take the hubs off to service the bearing. How did you clean out the old grease from both sides without doing that?

Also, how much grease did you end up using?

Thanks!

Edited December 15, 2022 by pHghost

[Cerbera]

1 hour ago, pHghost said:

You mention in the thread that you didn't need to take the hubs off to service the bearing. How did you clean out the old grease from both sides without doing that? Thanks!

The rubber bearing covers pop off without the hubs needing to if you have something like a dentists pick or spudger or exacto knife to lift them, which should be done very carefully so as not to deform them. I presume that is the same on the T4 ? But otherwise, Cotton buds (Q-tips) and a bit of tissue. If it's anything like mine, the stuff that's in there is a gel-like sort of gunk that just sits atop the bearings, and is easy to collect.

Here's the pics I had to remove from that thread when attachment limits were still a thing...

Before...

During (cleaned)

and refilled (probably a bit too much on reflection - a lot of that got forced out once spinning)...

And lastly, cover replaced, and cleaned up...

 

Edited December 15, 2022 by Cerbera

[Tawpie]

3 hours ago, StefanBRO said:

Does anyone have any idea why my v2 wheel has been giving a very slight judder at very low speed occasionally?

I've read about more than one T4 owner with this judder... try tightening the screws that hold the bottom of the suspension sliders. Evidently they're coming loose and seems to be a 'thing' now. Annoying, but... maintenance, yeah. Maintenance.

Edited December 16, 2022 by Tawpie

[Waulnut]

33 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

I've read about more than one T4 owner with this judder... try tightening the screws that hold the bottom of the suspension sliders. Evidently they're coming loose and seems to be a 'thing' now. Annoying, but... maintenance, yeah. Maintenance.

I was just about to comment on this. I was able to replicate the vibration by braking on one foot with the wheel at the upright position. When the wheel is braked on an angle, it doesn't vibrate due to low end torque. Both of my T4 mini grub was loose. After tightening, I haven't felt it vibrate again. Yet. 

[pHghost]

1 hour ago, Cerbera said:

But otherwise, Cotton buds (Q-tips) and a bit of tissue.

You cleaned up the top of the bearings, but what about the lubricant below them? Won't the two mix afterwards anyway if you do it like this?

Edited December 16, 2022 by pHghost

[Cerbera]

57 minutes ago, pHghost said:

You cleaned up the top of the bearings, but what about the lubricant below them? Won't the two mix afterwards anyway if you dock like this?

Yeah there really wasn't much under them. I don't think it matters if they mix a bit. What can I tell ya - other than my rotation noise has stopped and no problems from wheel since !

[pHghost]

29 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

my rotation noise has stopped and no problems from wheel since!

Fair enough! How long since you installed it? I suppose one tube of the grease was enough?

[Cerbera]

1 hour ago, pHghost said:

Fair enough! How long since you installed it? I suppose one tube of the grease was enough?

1 tube was ample for both sides - I used barely a quarter of the small tube I had. I had ridden for just 1 week from new when the noise started, and then I was down for another 2 while we worked out what was wrong. Have been out in all sorts of horrendous weather since then - about a month's worth of rides since the re-grease I'd say. It is definitely worth trying first before you replace bearings, because it is considerably more effort time and tools to have to do that - greasing can be easily done without popping any hubs or even disconnecting any wires !

Edited December 16, 2022 by Cerbera

[Paul A]

https://www.americanmachinist.com/shop-operations/article/21892529/understanding-and-addressing-the-incompatibility-of-greases

Jan. 20, 2011

Understanding and Addressing the Incompatibility of Greases

Proper lubrication is critical to optimal bearing and machine performance and productivity, and appropriate selection of grease is essential to achieving proper lubrication. But, choosing the right grease is more challenging than it may seem.

 

Consider these situations:

A lab technician tests grease from a problem bearing and finds that although the grease meets every specification, it is not performing as it should.

Operators of a hot-strip steel mill choose a new grease that has been strongly recommended by other mills, but the customers’ complaints about strip quality are increasing.

During a rush production run, a critical motor fails even though it had been lubricated properly, as specified in the maintenance manual.

 

Experts at NSK Americas, which develops bearings and linear motion systems, explain that in every case there had been a recent switch from one type of grease that met the machine manufacturer’s specifications for optimal performance, to another type that also met the appropriate specs.

And, in each case the operators had been victims of “grease incompatibility.”

 

Some greases cannot be mixed with others, even when both types meet the relevant specification.

Unless incompatibility is well understood and accounted for in the selection of the greases, switching to a different grease can be disastrous for the machinery and the operators.

........................

[goatman]

1 hour ago, Cerbera said:

1 tube was ample for both sides - I used barely a quarter of the small tube I had. I had ridden for just 1 week from new when the noise started, and then I was down for another 2 while we worked out what was wrong. Have been out in all sorts of horrendous weather since then - about a month's worth of rides since the re-grease I'd say. It is definitely worth trying first before you replace bearings, because it is considerably more effort time and tools to have to do that - greasing can be easily done without popping any hubs or even disconnecting any wires !

ive got bout 2500 km's since doing Cerbera's treatment in rain/slush/snow/salted roads with speeds regularly up to 70 km/h, using the Liquimolly just like Cerbera's pictures with a Q-tip from the outside seal ,  the 2 greases mix just fine.

[RolluS]

6 hours ago, Paul A said:

https://www.americanmachinist.com/shop-operations/article/21892529/understanding-and-addressing-the-incompatibility-of-greases

Jan. 20, 2011

Very interesting. I guess we can know the proper grease to use in NSK, SKF, etc.. bearings, but in our Chinese "stuff", I don't know if we can get information. When I had a bearing issue, Begode replaced my motor to a QS one

[pHghost]

9 hours ago, Cerbera said:

It is definitely worth trying first before you replace bearings

My bearings are still fine, but would prefer to pre-empt any issues by lubricating them properly!

8 hours ago, Paul A said:

switching to a different grease can be disastrous

Yes, I've read a couple articles on that, which is my worry.

8 hours ago, goatman said:

I've got about 2500 km's since doing Cerbera's treatment

That's good to know. 2500km without issues is a pretty good indication that the two aren't horribly incompatible!

[Paul A]

2 hours ago, RolluS said:

When I had a bearing issue

 

With the KS18XL, the bearings are $5 from an auto store.

Might be similar for other EUCs.

Might also be able to search online using the identifier marked on bearings cover.

Might be easier and cheaper to just replace.

Using a DIY tool of long threaded bolt, nut, washers, socket, pipe clip.....to extract bearings, is easier and safer than using a blowtorch too.

[Paul A]

1 minute ago, pHghost said:

pre-empt any issues

 

Bearings might not be a sudden, without warning. completely total failure, with disastrous consequences. 

Might be a case of fix when required.

 

Light bulb...if it isn't broke, don't fix.

Timing belt on a car...fix (replace) before it breaks..... if it breaks, it is without warning, it is total, and the consequence is very expensive.

 

If greases are incompatible in the longer term, might not be a huge disaster for an EUC. 

Just very annoying.

[pHghost]

By pre-empt I meant to have it lubricated properly from the get-go, so the bearings don't start to rust, I know the risk isn't total failure without it.

I might take out a bit of the old grease first and mix it with the new one in bowl, to see what the result is. If the greases mix well to start with but are incompatible in the long term, there's still also the option of removing the hubs to clean the bearings out properly from both sides and reapply just one grease.

 

Edited December 16, 2022 by pHghost

[Paul A]

Also, maybe google search:

'how much grease in wheel bearings'

[Cerbera]

2 hours ago, pHghost said:

By pre-empt I meant to have it lubricated properly from the get-go, so the bearings don't start to rust, I know the risk isn't total failure without it.

All my advice changes if there is nothing wrong with your wheel. I wouldn't fix what isn't broken, don't weaken or risk deforming bearing seals by opening them if there is no actual need to do so ! If you wanna stop water getting in there (and I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that it will), a thin film of grease around the outside of the cover might be all you need !

Edited December 16, 2022 by Cerbera

[RolluS]

2 hours ago, Paul A said:

 

With the KS18XL, the bearings are $5 from an auto store.

Might be similar for other EUCs.

Might also be able to search online using the identifier marked on bearings cover.

Might be easier and cheaper to just replace.

Using a DIY tool of long threaded bolt, nut, washers, socket, pipe clip.....to extract bearings, is easier and safer than using a blowtorch too.

I shall have said that Begode replaced the motor for free, under warranty.

For T4 it is 6012-2RS bearings. And guess what?

My ZX motor is up and running

 

[Sabestian]

On 12/14/2022 at 2:35 PM, mrelwood said:

Like @daniel1234 already replied, the rim profile doesn’t seal or support a tubeless tire at all. And it doesn’t even require jumping to fail. Usually the inside ridge holds the tire bead vertically in place, but on EUCs it is too low for that. And in order to make the tire run straight, one has to massage the tire around by hand at very low pressures at which the tire may not seal enough. Granted, narrow tubeless valves would solve one of the issues, though it might not fit a rim that thick. I just didn’t find any when I made my MSX tubeless.

 Since you can’t safely run a tubeless tire with a lower pressure due to the above fitting issues, there really isn’t anything to gain even if one would succeed with the conversion. Just a lot of time wasted.

I converted 3 wheels to tubeless, and apart from the process of getting the tire to seal being PITA (you need a garage with high pressure large volume compressor and acrylic paste), it's all been good. Offroading, onroading, jumping etc., about 10.000 km covered in total. No need to massage anything with a quality tire (high quality is typical for tubeless, and unusual for tube tires, hence the need to massage the shitty tire). Benefits are:
1. high quality tires easily available.
2. about 0.5 kg of weight saving. Not much. 
3. no more pinching your tube. 

[Paul A]

55 minutes ago, Sabestian said:

no more pinching your tube

 

Video of easy tyre change technique by a factory assembler, from manufacturer King Song.

Using butt of hammer seems to eliminate risk of tube pinching.

Entire operation about three minutes.