V12 Cutout tracking

[Pingouin]

Absolutely correct, mounting the new control board was not easy.
I have disassembled a lot of EUCs (KS, Begode, Leaperkim, Ninebot, Inmotion, Firewheel) and its in my top 2 of the most complex EUCs (On the other hand I think it is pretty well engineered). I think that someone who never did it or who is not sure of what he is doing should have their resseller handle it as your life might be at stake.
It would be interesting to know how many new control boards have failed just after mounting it and how many when riding afterwards.

For now, the V12 rides perfectly fine but going fast gives you that adrenaline peak because of the possible failure of the board !

[Robse]

30 minutes ago, Pingouin said:

For now, the V12 rides perfectly fine but going fast gives you that adrenaline peak because of the possible failure of the board !

 

[Funky]

43 minutes ago, Robse said:

 

Green is winning number. 

[Paul g]

5 hours ago, rolis said:

Hi everybody. Its been a few days so here is my update on the V12HS with a new board.

Firstly, it seems that these board failures seem to happen when installing the new boards. There haven´t been many instances of them failing. You have to be very careful not to squish any cables when putting the box together where the two boards are located and then when putting the top part with the display and handle on as well.
This might not be the issue, but the V12 is a pretty complex build and it´s a bad idea letting the final consumer have a go at it.

Secondly... I love it! It rides like a charm. I have been riding it nonstop for the last 3 days and I don´t think it will fail on me. Now its time for upgrades. Pads and pedals are a must!

@rolis, did you noticed any difference in acceleration and braking compared to the old board?

[rolis]

14 hours ago, Paul g said:

@rolis, did you noticed any difference in acceleration and braking compared to the old board?

I cant compare since I only rode the v12 with the newest board.

My distributor decided not to sell the v12 back when problems arose with the old board and decided to wait. Thats why I only have the new one.

Edited June 9, 2022 by rolis

[Steve Evans]

1 hour ago, Paul g said:

@rolis, did you noticed any difference in acceleration and braking compared to the old board?

if anything, it might have a tad less power. there is a grass hill that i have climbed numerous times before without issue. after installing the new board i noted it was making those 'grunting' noises as i got to the top. never heard those before.

i also noted acceleration and braking seemed a little less. but i also changed the tire when i changed the driver board and, i noticed some oddness in levelling after changing the board. recalibrating the wheel seemed have fixed the levelling issue.

now that i have ridden a couple hundred miles the v12 seems as quick as it used to be.  its hard to know for sure that all this was not just my imagination.

the grunting noise going up the grass hill is the only concrete evidence i have  - and maybe that is related to the new h666 tire.

[techyiam]

8 hours ago, rolis said:

I love it! It rides like a charm. I have been riding it nonstop for the last 3 days and I don´t think it will fail on me. Now its time for upgrades. Pads and pedals are a must

Are you in "fancier mode yet" ?

[rolis]

11 hours ago, techyiam said:

Are you in "fancier mode yet" ?

That was the first thing I did when I turned the wheel on 

 

12 hours ago, evans036 said:

grunting noise going up the grass hill is the only concrete evidence i have  - and maybe that is related to the new h666 tire.

besides the noise, do you like the tire? I have one on the way and I am wondering if it will be a significant difference to the original.

[Steve Evans]

3 hours ago, rolis said:

That was the first thing I did when I turned the wheel on 

 

besides the noise, do you like the tire? I have one on the way and I am wondering if it will be a significant difference to the original.

'like' is an understatement. the h666 tire excels at carving and i think is also better on gravel/dirt/grass. the only slight negative is that it is less stable at very low speeds (like < 5 mph).

i dont know if this tire is really good, or the original tire was really bad, but i am glad i made the switch.

btw, it was a bit of a struggle getting it on. much stiffer than the original tire.

good luck,

steve

 

[jimjam.nyc]

1 hour ago, evans036 said:

'like' is an understatement. the h666 tire excels at carving and i think is also better on gravel/dirt/grass. the only slight negative is that it is less stable at very low speeds (like < 5 mph).

i dont know if this tire is really good, or the original tire was really bad, but i am glad i made the switch.

btw, it was a bit of a struggle getting it on. much stiffer than the original tire.

good luck,

steve

 

I can add a second to this opinion of the H666. I swapped on my v12 early on and can say it is in my opinion superior in every way. I didnt mind the OG tire, but found it a bit flimsy and train-trackey. 

H666 seems surprisingly more stable, and more robust for sure. I believe it will last longer and even stand up to more abuse before a puncture can happen.

tire change is a struggle but once you figure out the whole thing they get easier. I found it worth the struggle and busted 2 tubes changing it. I can now seat a tire pretty quickly after doing it a few times. Just get the tools to do it, trying by hand is a nightmare. You will need a gorilla grip

 

[EUC Phenomenon]

1 hour ago, jimjam.nyc said:

H666 seems surprisingly more stable, and more robust for sure. I believe it will last longer and even stand up to more abuse before a puncture can happen.

tire change is a struggle but once you figure out the whole thing they get easier. I found it worth the struggle and busted 2 tubes changing it.

That’s going to be the tire I’ll be putting on my v12, when the old tire wears down. I just wish there was a V12 tire change video. It would make it so much easier, watching a video first.

[jimjam.nyc]

43 minutes ago, EUC Phenomenon said:

That’s going to be the tire I’ll be putting on my v12, when the old tire wears down. I just wish there was a V12 tire change video. It would make it so much easier, watching a video first.

I think you can probably watch any disassembly video for v12 and get a good idea. The actual tire change, you can probably just pick one of the tire change videos out there as it should apply. That is what i did.

I forgot which disassembly video i watched. I will just say make sure you loosen (not fully remove) one or two of the battery pack screws before pulling the motor out. It is very helpful in making it much easier to get the motor out of the case. 

[Paul g]

23 hours ago, evans036 said:

if anything, it might have a tad less power. there is a grass hill that i have climbed numerous times before without issue. after installing the new board i noted it was making those 'grunting' noises as i got to the top. never heard those before.

i also noted acceleration and braking seemed a little less. but i also changed the tire when i changed the driver board and, i noticed some oddness in levelling after changing the board. recalibrating the wheel seemed have fixed the levelling issue.

now that i have ridden a couple hundred miles the v12 seems as quick as it used to be.  its hard to know for sure that all this was not just my imagination.

the grunting noise going up the grass hill is the only concrete evidence i have  - and maybe that is related to the new h666 tire.

I don’t think the grunting noise comes from the tyre, this has to do with the motor and the board. What is the pressure of the tyre when you say it seems “less stable at very low speeds“ ? 

 

[Steve Evans]

1 hour ago, Paul g said:

I don’t think the grunting noise comes from the tyre, this has to do with the motor and the board. What is the pressure of the tyre when you say it seems “less stable at very low speeds“ ? 

 

Paul,

the sound is not coming from the tire, its coming from the over-torqued motor. i only mentioned the tire b/c its the only other thing that changed. i thought maybe small change in tire radius MIGHT have affected torque, but i doubt it.

tire is at about 35psi which is what i normally ride at.

hope this helps,

steve

 

[adrianqbs]

Well guys, greeting from sunny Kuala Lumpur once again.

Inmotion-al Damage - the 3rd board failure

In a country where the Inmotion V12 costs about 3x the average monthly salary, this is quite the ordeal.

A replacement driver board was received from Inmotion a few days ago and was installed by my dealer, along with a control board from the same batch as my first replacement board (he received them at the same time, in the same package). We installed everything at half speed, making sure that every step was done accordingly, with constant reference to Inmotion's official video and Eevee's replacement video. We put everything together, and turned the wheel on, AND IT CAME TO LIFE. Hurrah!!!!

We then tested all functions, and it was all working fine! We then left it to charge and planned to bring it out to test on the road the next day.

Returning the next day (last night), excitedly putting velcro on some new pads, holding back the excitement to try the good as new wheel out once again.

We turned the wheel on, went through all the basic functions, no issues. Trollied it outside, put in on the kickstand to put my shoes on. Set the wheel upright, and we heard a pop, and the wheel went dead.

Immediately texted the Inmotion rep, and we pushed the wheel out into the open and began a video for Inmotion. The tyre was still spinning freely at this point and it was still connected to the Inmotion app.

We tried to turn the wheel on again, and we heard a series of pops and the wheel went completely dead. This time, the tyre had the sort of jerking resistance that is charecteristic of a MOSFET failure. We haven't yet opened the wheel up to assess the damage. But it looks very much like the second board failure.

So, we went out and took my new old RS HT for a joyride. Gonna begin a waterproofing and speaker grill project on that wheel soon.

At this point, we are waiting to hear back from Inmotion. Guess it's gonna take a while before the wheel is rideable again. And much longer before I will have any sort of confidence to ride it beyond any sort of boring speed.

Edited June 10, 2022 by adrianqbs

[supercurio]

@adrianqbs that's unfortunate. Glad it happened without somebody on it and didn't escalate further.

Did your steps include MOSFET continuity check like in MyEWheel video at 30:40 ?

 

[adrianqbs]

8 minutes ago, supercurio said:

@adrianqbs that's unfortunate. Glad it happened without somebody on it and didn't escalate further.

Did your steps include MOSFET continuity check like in MyEWheel video at 30:40 ?

Hi @supercurio,

Yes, it really was fortunate. The dissappointment sucks, but it could have been much more serious.

And yes, we did do the test. It is the same as detailed in the official Inmotion video. We also took the extra step of testing with each of the 3 MOSFET feet individually.

- Therefore, tested

1. screw to MOSFET

2. screw to each MOSFET foot

3. Each MOSFET foot to each foot

Very much overkill, but it was 11pm and we didn't have much else to do anyway.

This test was also done 3 times, once by the dealer, once by another rider who was hanging with us, and once by myself. Each time, the other 2 fellers not doing the test was watching to confirm.

 

We actually did it this way as well during the first replacement, although only the dealer and I were there at the time.

[DjPanJan]

Sorry for my stupid question but this cut out is only vanila boards?

All this troubles is fixed with high Torque boards what i heard from Inmotion statement is this true?

I am confused becasue Adam wrong way chanel have some ballance problem with HT V12 in last video and fall around 30km/h and 65% battery left.

 

Edited June 10, 2022 by DjPanJan
add video

[Chriull]

1 minute ago, adrianqbs said:

Therefore, tested

1. screw to MOSFET

2. screw to each MOSFET foot

3. Each MOSFET foot to each foot

As you'll have another motherboard installation coming up:

The important thing to test is Mosfet to heatsink insulation.

On aluminium surfaces it can be hard to get a nice contact with the measurement probe.

The screw should have a nice contact to the aluminium heatsink and an easy to contact surface.

So i'd check first for continuity from one screw to the next.

Then test for non continuity from a screw to all the mosfet plates. Here any screw can be taken which had good continuity with other screws.

Testing with mosfet legs is superfluous - could just be used if done right as simple mosfet functionality test.

13 minutes ago, adrianqbs said:

Very much overkill, but it was 11pm and we didn't have much else to do anyway.

And imho with the (unlikely) problem that a screw could have no conducting contact to the heatsink. Should imho be very, very unlikely, especialy with a fresh mounted screw... But maybe possible?

35 minutes ago, supercurio said:

Did your steps include MOSFET continuity check like in MyEWheel video at 30:40 ?

The comment, that screws have to be a bit tightened or loosened if one hears the meter beeping is very disturbing and dangerous! A great way to destroy a wheel and get ones customers faceplanting!

If one has continuity either the insulation "ring&sleeve" between screw and mosfet is compromised or one forgot it. This could be very short sightedly ignored by messing with the screw - but within the next vibrations/movements it will contact again. Worst case during a ride...

The other possibilty would be a compromised thermal pad/tape which would need a full replacement.

MyEwheel should reeducate their technicians...

 

[adrianqbs]

22 minutes ago, Chriull said:

As you'll have another motherboard installation coming up:

The important thing to test is Mosfet to heatsink insulation.

On aluminium surfaces it can be hard to get a nice contact with the measurement probe.

The screw should have a nice contact to the aluminium heatsink and an easy to contact surface.

So i'd check first for continuity from one screw to the next.

Then test for non continuity from a screw to all the mosfet plates. Here any screw can be taken which had good continuity with other screws.

Testing with mosfet legs is superfluous - could just be used if done right as simple mosfet functionality test.

And imho with the (unlikely) problem that a screw could have no conducting contact to the heatsink. Should imho be very, very unlikely, especialy with a fresh mounted screw... But maybe possible?

The comment, that screws have to be a bit tightened or loosened if one hears the meter beeping is very disturbing and dangerous! A great way to destroy a wheel and get ones customers faceplanting!

If one has continuity either the insulation "ring&sleeve" between screw and mosfet is compromised or one forgot it. This could be very short sightedly ignored by messing with the screw - but within the next vibrations/movements it will contact again. Worst case during a ride...

The other possibilty would be a compromised thermal pad/tape which would need a full replacement.

MyEwheel should reeducate their technicians...

 

Good point, will definitely test each individual screw on the next replacement.

Let's hope all goes well then. Gotta see what inmotion comes back with next week.

[Chriull]

19 minutes ago, adrianqbs said:

Good point, will definitely test each individual screw on the next replacement.

Just to avoid misunderstandings - testing the individual screws is just a helper, to find a screw with good continuity.

So the "only" important test - non continuity between all mosfet plates and heatsink can be made with this screw!

[Rawnei]

Just did first real "test" of gf's V12 after motherboard swap, went to the basement (long corridor), walked with it, the old "stress" test that Inmotion recommended for old motherboard, bouncing it up and down some stairs, jumping with it while standing on it, riding a bit (10-15kmh), then I did lots of pendulums, seems fine so far, temps where normally around or slightly below 40c went up to like 55c after doing many pendulums.

[Chriull]

4 hours ago, supercurio said:

MyEWheel video at 30:40 ?

As shortly before this timestamp again masses of thermal paste was used (as from manufacturers and quite every reseller) i decided to open an own topic regarding this bad habit.

[Paul g]

6 hours ago, Chriull said:

As you'll have another motherboard installation coming up:

The important thing to test is Mosfet to heatsink insulation.

On aluminium surfaces it can be hard to get a nice contact with the measurement probe.

The screw should have a nice contact to the aluminium heatsink and an easy to contact surface.

So i'd check first for continuity from one screw to the next.

Then test for non continuity from a screw to all the mosfet plates. Here any screw can be taken which had good continuity with other screws.

Testing with mosfet legs is superfluous - could just be used if done right as simple mosfet functionality test.

And imho with the (unlikely) problem that a screw could have no conducting contact to the heatsink. Should imho be very, very unlikely, especialy with a fresh mounted screw... But maybe possible?

The comment, that screws have to be a bit tightened or loosened if one hears the meter beeping is very disturbing and dangerous! A great way to destroy a wheel and get ones customers faceplanting!

If one has continuity either the insulation "ring&sleeve" between screw and mosfet is compromised or one forgot it. This could be very short sightedly ignored by messing with the screw - but within the next vibrations/movements it will contact again. Worst case during a ride...

The other possibilty would be a compromised thermal pad/tape which would need a full replacement.

MyEwheel should reeducate their technicians...

 

@adrianqbs The continuity checking instructions provided by InMotion:https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxH1v1QRCD_fYINr8a8NaCB_uf-g4DmR0Y

The whole installation: 

The testing instructions provided by @Chriull are better then the ones provided by InMotion.

Edited June 10, 2022 by Paul g
reasons

[EUC Phenomenon]

10 hours ago, Chriull said:

How to mount a mosfet to a heatsink if one needs them electricly insulated:

What insulators are normally used/available: aluminium oxide ceramics, mica plates or thermal pads.

The ceramics are the best, mica is second and thermal pads afaik are the worst, some competing with mica.

But all three have worse thermal condictivity than metal, so one uses them as thin as possible.

You wrote that ceramic thermal plates are the best. Do you think it would be okay to replace the thermal pad on the V12 board with these?

 

Edited June 11, 2022 by EUC Phenomenon