V12 Cutout tracking

[Tawpie]

2 hours ago, EUC Phenomenon said:

Do you think it would be okay to replace the thermal pad on the V12 board with these?

It really depends on how precisely the heatsink is machined. My guess is: it's probably pretty flat but not as flat as the ceramic plate. If you have gaps due to scratches or other imperfections (a high spot would be killer), you're back to having an air barrier. Consequently you'll at least want a thin THIN thin layer of thermal compound on both sides to fill any gaps.

Keep in mind that it doesn't appear that heat is an issue with the V12 MOSFET system, so the thermal pad as non-ideal as it may be, does appear to be an adequate solution. The pad isn't as good at conducting heat as a ceramic plate is, but it is compliant and has a better chance of fewer air gaps when the heatsink's surface isn't pristine. Sure, you might be able to cut a few degrees off of the max temps with properly applied ceramic, but it's my understanding that the V12 in stock configuration is not in danger of overheating anyway so…

Edited June 11, 2022 by Tawpie

[Silverfish]

Picked up my V12 from eevees today and took the long way home so I rode about 33k. So, there's a success story to add to the mix.

[Mrd777]

Question?

I’m about to do my fourth install as Ewheels  just sent me the slave /sister board, which we think burned out during one of my installs.

As I’m taking the wheel apart I decided to get a quick voltage reading on each of the batterie’s xt60 And they are measuring 4.1 volts on each side?  Is there a fuse or something that is interrupting my true voltage reading on these battery packs? Confused..
My idea was to install the old board as I’m worried that the current updated board I have my blow the sister slave board again. 

[Brendan "nog3" Halliday]

14 hours ago, Mrd777 said:

Question?

I’m about to do my fourth install as Ewheels  just sent me the slave /sister board, which we think burned out during one of my installs.

As I’m taking the wheel apart I decided to get a quick voltage reading on each of the batterie’s xt60 And they are measuring 4.1 volts on each side?  Is there a fuse or something that is interrupting my true voltage reading on these battery packs? Confused..
My idea was to install the old board as I’m worried that the current updated board I have my blow the sister slave board again. 

That voltage is normal, the packs are isolated until the slave board gives them the signal to open up.

Odd question though, is this one of the very first batch V12s with the m4 bolts for the handle cover and not the m3 ones with the white nylon isolators?

First batch left, newer batch right:

Edited June 13, 2022 by Brendan "nog3" Halliday
images weren't uploaded

[Steve Evans]

1 hour ago, Mrd777 said:

Question?

I’m about to do my fourth install as Ewheels  just sent me the slave /sister board, which we think burned out during one of my installs.

As I’m taking the wheel apart I decided to get a quick voltage reading on each of the batterie’s xt60 And they are measuring 4.1 volts on each side?  Is there a fuse or something that is interrupting my true voltage reading on these battery packs? Confused..
My idea was to install the old board as I’m worried that the current updated board I have my blow the sister slave board again. 

i saw similar while i had my wheel apart. someone said earlier on these forums that the inmotion BMS cuts power from the batteries unless the wheel is turned on.

good luck,

steve

[adrianqbs]

5 hours ago, Brendan "nog3" Halliday said:

That voltage is normal, the packs are isolated until the slave board gives them the signal to open up.

Odd question though, is this one of the very first batch V12s with the m4 bolts for the handle cover and not the m3 ones with the white nylon isolators?

First batch left, newer batch right:

Hi @Brendan "nog3" Halliday!!

This is rather odd though. Because we did also decided to do this test in the battery connectors during the last board replacement. But we got 88v (or whatever the actual voltage was), which we verified when we turned the wheel on after the board install. 

Would this indicate some problem with the BMSs'? Or might the control board just have not turned the BMSs' off before the control board got barbecued? 

[Mrd777]

12 hours ago, Brendan "nog3" Halliday said:

Odd question though, is this one of the very first batch V12s with the m4 bolts for the handle cover and not the m3 ones with the white nylon isolators?

I can’t see your pics, but yes it is part of the very first v12s with the four bolts… why?

My forth try with a new sister/slave board failed. A voice repeats herself, and the headlight works except no balancing, no lcd screen. I really regret trying to change the board, and at this point purchasing the wheel. I think Inmotion got a head of themselves making an over complicated wheel.

[Brendan "nog3" Halliday]

7 hours ago, adrianqbs said:

Or might the control board just have not turned the BMSs' off before the control board got barbecued? 

This, yes.

 

32 minutes ago, Mrd777 said:

I can’t see your pics, but yes it is part of the very first v12s with the four bolts… why?

 

I've updated the images to be viewable to all.

I have one on the bench that similarly failed, from the first generation. From what I saw the m3 bolts have the isolator to prevent the aluminium heatsink of the controller to that of the top being linked. If you look in the top cover of the V12 there is a ground wire hooked up to the display (black wire, to near where two yellow wires for the lift switch are) which means the top handle casting is used as a ground plane for the low voltage side of the unit.

With this other first generation unit I noticed a spark/arc when installing the original bolts and the unit started to playback the 'please repair' audio. All was fine testing wise until I started inserting the handle bolts.

[Mrd777]

23 minutes ago, Brendan "nog3" Halliday said:

If you look in the top cover of the V12 there is a ground wire hooked up to the display (black wire, to near where two yellow wires for the lift switch are) which means the top handle casting is used as a ground plane for the low voltage side of the unit.

This is actually interesting, can you take a pic of that black ground wire ending with that little screw. It seems to just go in that plastic housing? The one that travels with the yellow wire down the length of the handle case 

[Robse]

After 24 pages, i'l have to ask this:  Does anybody own a "new" V12 that's actually works as supposed?  = Brand new, out of the box, riding big smile and happy?

[rolis]

2 hours ago, Robse said:

After 24 pages, i'l have to ask this:  Does anybody own a "new" V12 that's actually works as supposed?  = Brand new, out of the box, riding big smile and happy?

There are loads. And those who are riding theirs with the new board don’t write on the forum

Mine works perfectly after the board switch.

[techyiam]

46 minutes ago, rolis said:

Mine works perfectly after the board switch.

Did acceleration or braking improve?

[rolis]

13 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Did acceleration or braking improve?

No idea. Mine already came with the new board. Still broken, but the new one, so I cant compare.

[Robse]

1 minute ago, rolis said:

No idea. Mine already came with the new board. Still broken, but the new one, so I cant compare.

Where did buy ?

[Paul A]

Inmotion V12 Driver Board Swap - 5 Things You Should Know. No More Cutouts Please.

1,299 views

Jun 2, 2022

Wheel Hughman

65 subscribers

eWheels sent me the new black controller board with upgraded mosfets for the Inmotion V12.

I replaced it myself and wanted to share my experience with fellow V12 owners and enthusiasts.

There are some things you can easily overlook and cause a bunch of headaches.

I actually highlighted 6 things in the video, one at the beginning.

 

 

 

[souki]

22 hours ago, Robse said:

After 24 pages, i'l have to ask this:  Does anybody own a "new" V12 that's actually works as supposed?  = Brand new, out of the box, riding big smile and happy?

I got mine from mywheel on friday. They changed the board before shipping (it was "older" V12 that was waiting for new boards). I have tried it only for 70km so far but it works absolutely fine. I didn't push it (I am still adapting from V10F) but I am hoping it will stay working nicely

[jimjam.nyc]

After finally swapping my board yesterday (so far no problems.. Still taking it easy to gain trust). I can say that while process is not so terribly hard.. there are parts that are pretty delicate. It is very easy to accidentally have one or more of the mosfets lose their isolation from the heat sync. After doing my board i can see this most likely being one of the main issues why people may have the new board fail.

It is worth taking your time and really making sure there is no conductivity between the mosfet plate and the heat sync. It took me a decent amount of tries on the first 6 or so screws to get this right.  The holes need to be lined up really close to perfect, i had to adjust almost every single mosfet slightly. The plastic washers need to be in almost perfect condition.. 1 small crack and its just toast. The method i took was one at a time.. screw it in, test for connectivity and move on. It seemed to work the best for me after a few attempts. 

Honestly other than, that the process was not so bad. It is just a lot of screws. Hopefully it holds up. I bounced the wheel a bit, did some small distance low speed runs in my hallway, and a few pendulums and freespins.. So far so good.. Going to try and get out today to test it a bit more. 

 

 

 

 

[Steve Evans]

my wheel is still going strong on my upgraded driver board after > 250miles. also, i am not hearing of any failures except for those immediately after installation (ie usually on initial power-up).

is it reasonable to assume at this point these new boards are safe to ride with?

thanks,

steve

 

Edited June 15, 2022 by evans036

[Freeforester]

7 minutes ago, evans036 said:

is it reasonable to assume at this point these new boards are safe to ride with?

…. Er, that would be an ‘ecumenical matter’….

[rolis]

[Paul A]

Maybe users should not have been given the option to install the replacement board themselves.

[Steve Evans]

5 minutes ago, Paul A said:

Maybe users should not have been given the option to install the replacement board themselves.

i was ok with self installation, however i did/do object to the crappy packaging that caused my board to get so badly crushed that the temp sensor was torn from the board.

[jimjam.nyc]

11 minutes ago, Paul A said:

Maybe users should not have been given the option to install the replacement board themselves.

Its a tough situation. Shipping a wheel out is a giant bummer, especially if there is a long wait to get repairs done and get the wheel returned. 

I half agree with not letting users do it, but i do think the process is not so terrible that some people can do it on their own. Not sure how to handle a situation like that in all honesty. 

Maybe they could have made it way less enticing for people to do it on their own by just letting people know.. If you replace it and it fails.. You are out of luck. Then maybe more people would have opted for a technician to do the swap. 

 

That being said. I swapped mine.. Was not so bad. I went on the first real-ish ride today. No problems so far. I thought the wheel did handle differently, but then i remembered i lowered my footplate position from highest to lowest when taking the wheel apart. It makes a decent difference. 

Streets here in NYC suck bad.. So i am gaining my trust quickly, it handled the potholes and bumps really well so far

Edited June 15, 2022 by jimjam.nyc

[Paul g]

10 minutes ago, Paul A said:

Maybe users should not have been given the option to install the replacement board themselves.

@Paul A don’t you think @Brendan "nog3" Halliday was right when he said the boards should have come already installed on the heat sink? InMotion choose the most risky and the cheapest approach.

    ( At least they should’ve described all details of correct installation and testing of  MOSFETs: how to carefully align each MOSFET with the screw hole behind, how MucH to tighten each screw, how to take care of each isolating plastic washers when tightening, how to test them, and if not passing testing how to solve the issue. The instructions video they prepared looked so superficial to me. This now has to be done by people with more experience on the Forum after we find out there are burning boards because of wrong installation. We don’t even know at this moment what is the real issue with the failing new boards: is it the installation done wrong, is it the damage done during transportation or is it an issue of bad manufacturing of the new board? There are so many unknowns. )

And @Tawpie, were you worried the tiny- tiny tension in the MOSFETs legs could create problems after installation? 😏 InMotion ??? ( sorry, I’m being sarcastic 🤭 🤭🤭)

[Paul A]

26 minutes ago, Paul g said:

InMotion choose the most risky and the cheapest approach.

 

@Paul g  Yes, this would seem to be part of the explanation. 

Some negotiated arrangement would probably have been needed with distributors/resellers.

To be paid by Inmotion to recall and implement the replacement boards.

 

The distributor replacement option would involve more significant costs of freight and labour.

Offer the much cheaper option to mail out the replacement board for the customer to DIY.

Try and reduce the costs as much as possible.

 

Edited June 15, 2022 by Paul A
typo