Begode 900Wh Battery Recall Options

[FunTech4Real]

2 hours ago, RagingGrandpa said:

We have no basis for distrust of the new M50LT, because the EUC community hasn't used it yet.

And we should not have any distrust of the LG M50T, because it's in the S18 (no fires) and V11 (also no fires, but some have said V11 cells may have been changed at some point, I cannot confirm). Also because the LG M50T cells are used world wide in a huge array of gadgets and LG makes top quality cells. The only distrust we should have is of Gotway/Begode (and Extreme Bull)  who have a history of wheels catching on fire both without and without LG M50T cells, and it includes wheels catching on fire that have not even been used yet. There's basically no way a brand new LG M50T cell is going to combust on its own in normal conditions; the wheels that caught on fire before first use where clearly caused by terrible quality and safety engineering from Gotway. 

[div]

18 minutes ago, sevin7 said:

because it's in the S18 (no fires)

The S18 have a lot of dead battery packs though, 15% from eWheels estimation. Could be unrelated (apparently the charge level might be too low for the balancing to happen properly) but to mention that the S18 isn’t without battery issues.

Edited November 12, 2021 by div

[Paul A]

Might need a death(s) and/or crackdown by authorities to improve safety.

The eWheels Gotway shipping container fire were certainly new wheels still in the box.

[Bizra6ot]

In today's wrongway video the Ex.n HT packs are samsung 50E

[RagingGrandpa]

13 minutes ago, Bizra6ot said:

In today's wrongway video the Ex.n HT packs are samsung 50E

Nice!

[Paul A]

#2 BEGODE BATTERY SAFETY ANNOUNCEMENT - ELECTRICAL CONCERNS

 

 

[That Guy]

1 hour ago, Paul A said:

#2 BEGODE BATTERY SAFETY ANNOUNCEMENT - ELECTRICAL CONCERNS

Adam is selling out his GotWay/Begode wheels!... Interesting what he thinks about the wheels coming from them after June 2021.

[Patricio Bohórquez Rodríguez de Medina]

43 minutes ago, That Guy said:

Adam is selling out his GotWay/Begode wheels!... Interesting what he thinks about the wheels coming from them after June 2021.

Makes no sense. After mostly 20 minutes of slow video and seen his face once and again, when they inspected his battery it was great. Only some marks in the black cover are the reason to be worried about. I continue driving my MSP. Obviously, I take care of it as well as my 18xl, 9bot, and others.

[GoldenOne]

16 minutes ago, Patricio Bohórquez Rodríguez de Medina said:

Makes no sense. After mostly 20 minutes of slow video and seen his face once and again, when they inspected his battery it was great. Only some marks in the black cover are the reason to be worried about. I continue driving my MSP. Obviously, I take care of it as well as my 18xl, 9bot, and others.

The battery degredation wasn't the concern. 

 

The complete lack of any sufficient physical or electrical protection was

[RagingGrandpa]

17 hours ago, Paul A said:

 

I watched the whole video. It motivated me to reply here:

This was a big miss by Wrongway. (Does Adam have an a forum username here?)

In brief, my problems with his long story are:

1. Assertion that the charging input of Gotway BMS is unprotected or unsafe.
   Especially including his statement "If water gets in the charging port while you're riding, the wheel will cut out, like it did to me." Completely untrue!
   Gotway BMS protects the charge port from overcurrent and short circuits safely and effectively. I have demonstrated it myself, by intentionally shorting the charging port while riding the EUC. The charging circuit disabled itself due to the short, and the EUC continued running without a hiccup.
   I completely believe Adam experienced a cutout during wet weather, but his claim about the cause is just wrong.
    
2. Lack of constructive advice.
   After all his criticism of the pack design, the only advice Adam offered viewers was 'get rid of your old Gotway' (paraphrased).
   Such a missed opportunity to discuss fire safety and preparedness!
   Even if you buy a shiny new EUC including a battery in an immersion-rated box and an output-interrupting BMS, cell fires are still possible. Knowing what they're like and what to do if one happens is universally-applicable knowledge. Fostering an idea that 'new EUC's won't burn, don't worry' is harmful!
    

15 hours ago, GoldenOne said:

complete lack of any sufficient physical or electrical protection

Unconstructive sensationalism! Boo this man!

But let's blame Adam first

 

 

Edited November 23, 2021 by RagingGrandpa

[Paul A]

Previous video by Adam on fire, safety etc.

 

[enaon]

22 minutes ago, RagingGrandpa said:

Completely untrue!

The statement may be inaccurate on new packs, but "completelly untrue" is inaccurate as well 

I have shorted them too, they spark, no protection, maybe you have a newer pack?

[RagingGrandpa]

41 minutes ago, enaon said:

I have shorted them too, they spark, no protection, maybe you have a newer pack?

All Gotway models MSX and newer include protection.
(Except some MTen3's which continued production thru 2019.)
MSuper V3 and earlier did not have port protection, but those are now very very old models...

Yes, there will be a spark! (Demonstration here, again, showing it!)
Then, instantaneously, the BMS turns off, and melting, fires, and cutouts do not result.

  

56 minutes ago, Paul A said:

Previous video by Adam on fire, safety etc.

[youtube transcript]
 okay so today we're going to discuss
lithium ion battery pack
fire

what happens if um a uc
starts to burn is number one
you will smell a certain smoke and this
smoke is really just toxic and really
bad for your lungs

so
what you will hear first is either a
sizzling probably
and you will start smelling something
similar to a
burning cable or just burning
electronics

and if that happens the first thing you
need to do you need to grab the euc
if it still is not burning and throw it
outside

now if you can't do it
the uc will be just really warm and you
can burn your fingers for sure
and uh cells will keep exploding because
of uh the heat now what you can do as
well
is get a fire extinguisher and you know
before i
thought that fire extinguishers don't
help but actually if you get a
extinguisher like this which is destined
also for high voltage um devices then
this will also help to just diminish the
fire better

i think the most important
criteria is to just react fast
and probably the biggest issue arises if
like no one is at home
so this is what you can do there's also
like the small
fire automatic fireballs which kuji
rolls has i think they would help
as well i don't have them yet but i'll
buy some of those

this is really a wake-up
call sort of
for euc companies especially we go in
this case because
emotion didn't have these issues over
time
or at least nothing that i know of over
the last period
and the same as king song also has
veteran
so when you look at the monster pro
especially it has a motherboard that is
really close
to the battery pack like it's a lot of
stuff
that could possibly go wrong

so if you're still here leave a like on
the video subscribe to see more content
like this
i'll see you in the next next video

I found two sentences of constructive advice in those 20 minutes... we can do better.

 

Edited November 23, 2021 by RagingGrandpa

[enaon]

14 minutes ago, RagingGrandpa said:

All Gotway models MSX and newer include protection.
Yes, there will be a spark! (Demonstration here, again, showing it!)
Then, instantaneously, the BMS turns off, and melting, fires, and cutouts do not result!

You mean it is turning off the charging input?

It cannot turn off the output can it? There are no fets available for in/output protection, or am I missing something?.

Edited November 23, 2021 by enaon

[RagingGrandpa]

17 minutes ago, enaon said:

You mean it is turning off the charging input?

Correct.

17 minutes ago, enaon said:

It cannot turn off the output

Correct.

The Gotway BMS design from MSX and MSP cannot turn off its high-power output.
But it does have FETs to turn off its charging input
More detail here (lots of details... patience is a virtue...)
 

9 minutes ago, enaon said:

yet on the motor port, no fets exists, a short there is a blowup, do you agree?

Right, so if the controller has a short, the battery will not stop it. Typically the controller melts, sometimes spectacularly (sparks, smoke, and "popcorn sounds").
But also note: there have been no reported instances of a battery fire directly initiated by a controller failing.
Perhaps a burned controller causes some internal damage to the battery, which results in a fire at a later time during the EUC's life... it's certainly not good, but also still theoretical.

In 2020 Gotway began adding fuses in the output wires to address this risk.

Now in 2021, the latest Gotway packs have added the FETs in the BMS to do output interruption (which is why Adam is suggesting 'get new EUCs'...)

Edited November 23, 2021 by RagingGrandpa

[enaon]

37 minutes ago, RagingGrandpa said:

Right, so if the controller has a short, the battery will not stop it. Typically the controller melts, sometimes spectacularly (sparks, smoke, and "popcorn sounds").
But also note: there have been no reported instances of a battery fire directly initiated by a controller failing.
Perhaps a burned controller causes some internal damage to the battery, which results in a fire at a later time during the EUC's life... it's certainly not good, but also still theoretical.

In 2020 Gotway began adding fuses in the output wires to address this risk.

Now in 2021, the latest Gotway packs have added the FETs in the BMS to do output interruption (which is why Adam is suggesting 'get new EUCs'...)

I see, but ok, with the level of wiring job inside a gotway, betting that the motherboard will fail before the cables melt to a short somewhere before along the line, is not a safe bet I think. Motor output control is a must, is it good that it is now added, thank you for the info. 

I agree with your main point, WrongWay and battery innerworkings do not seem to go very well as far as those two last videos of him tell

Edited November 23, 2021 by enaon

[FunTech4Real]

11 hours ago, RagingGrandpa said:

I watched the whole video. It motivated me to reply here:

This was a big miss by Wrongway. (Does Adam have an a forum username here?)

In brief, my problems with his long story are:

1. Assertion that the charging input of Gotway BMS is unprotected or unsafe.
   Especially including his statement "If water gets in the charging port while you're riding, the wheel will cut out, like it did to me." Completely untrue!
   Gotway BMS protects the charge port from overcurrent and short circuits safely and effectively. I have tried it myself, by intentionally shorting the charging port while riding the EUC. The charge port disabled itself due to the short, and the EUC continued running without a hiccup.
   I completely believe Adam experienced a cutout during wet weather, but his claim of the cause is just wrong.
    
2. Lack of constructive advice.
   After all his criticism of the pack design, the only advice Adam offered viewers was 'get rid of your old Gotway' (paraphrased).
   A big missed opportunity to discuss fire safety and preparedness!
   Even if you buy a shiny new EUC including a battery in an immersion-rated box and an output-interrupting BMS, cell fires are still possible. Knowing what they're like and what to do if one happens is universally-applicable knowledge. Fostering an idea that 'new EUC's won't burn, don't worry' is harmful!

I liked the video. Adam did a good job of not saying inaccurate things compared to his other videos. I think that the Gotway BMS (in the 900 Wh packs) is not sufficiently physically protected. The way they throw the cells and BMS in some shrink wrap and then use a tiny amount of foam to secure it between some plastic panels inside an enclosure that is not even close to being waterproof is not safe. For comparison, my electric scooters have a similar battery pack that is just wrapped in some shrink wrap, but that battery pack is then put inside a thick metal box that is waterproof (the deck of the scooter). That waterproof metal box is what makes the pack safe, and if the cells somehow did catch on fire, that metal box might contain the fire (I'd love for someone to test it).  Inmotion and KingSong wheels made in the last year or two (I'm not sure about older ones) have their batteries and BMS laid out in a way that is massively safer than the Gotway wheels (note: the Sherman uses a battery layout that doesn't look very safe, but the Abrams packs look much safer, similar to KingSong/Inmotion). 

There is not a lot of constructive advice to offer when you bought a Gotway wheel that might catch on fire. The main reason I really like Adam's video is he has a lot of power due to his large audience. He is using that power to call out Gotway for making products that are unsafe. How many more wheels have to catch on fire before Gotway steps up their safety? Is someone going to have to die in a fire caused by an EUC For things to finally change? I hope not, maybe if Adam can put enough pressure on Gotway then things will change (its at least worth a try).  

Also, regarding the charging port shortage causing a cutout: We cannot assume that all Gotway wheels of the same model or even the same batch are going to behave the same way. Gotway has serious quality issues and their products often have inconsistent issues within the same model. Example: My RS19 HT delivered in July 2021 beeps every time I hit 28 MPH. I've done everything you can think of to turn these beeps off but nothing works. It should not beep at 28 MPH, but it does, and I can't find anyone else who has the same issue with this wheel. 

[supercurio]

The EX.N of a friend stopped charging at 96.6V. Yesterday his packs got checked and one of the cell groups was damaged.
Why that happened? not sure. The only potential reason is that the wheel fell off its stand before the last ride.

Discussing what would be the options now, my suggestion was: "let's look into where to buy a LiTech replacement pack".
Because 2 of these packs instead of 3 is still an improvement I guess.

I started to ask around but didn't get a positive answer yet.

But essentially that's what I think should happen: don't throw your Gotway/Begode wheel in the back of the garage to forget about it.
Don't sell it either to someone else who might not understand the risk. Replace the packs with better ones as much as your budget allows, and re-sell the current packs to a shop which will give a 2nd life to the cells.

And if your dealer plans a recall, then that's a lot better.

Edited November 23, 2021 by supercurio

[mike_bike_kite]

54 minutes ago, sevin7 said:

maybe if Adam can put enough pressure on Gotway then things will change

If we everyone keeps saying bad things about the company Gotway then the actual company, Begode, probably doesn't care too much.

[Bizra6ot]

I think there is a lot of FUD, for those who are afraid and will get rid of their gotway wheels despite the low percentage recorded, with the dozens of possible causes of domestic fires that happen every day I hope you do not live in an apartment but in a cabin in the woods without electricity stove or candle, be careful with falling trees and lightning though

[GothamMike]

Begode has had serious QA issues for years. Several Begode/GW people left to form Veteran. 

 

[mike_bike_kite]

Oddly I think my Nikola Plus is actually very well made. I don't like the case material as it's prone to scratches or the rear light but everything else about it is quite classy including how it's put together. I would like this battery issue sorted though.

[conecones]

12 hours ago, RagingGrandpa said:

I watched the whole video. It motivated me to reply here:

This was a big miss by Wrongway. (Does Adam have an a forum username here?)

In brief, my problems with his long story are:

1. Assertion that the charging input of Gotway BMS is unprotected or unsafe.
   Especially including his statement "If water gets in the charging port while you're riding, the wheel will cut out, like it did to me." Completely untrue!
   Gotway BMS protects the charge port from overcurrent and short circuits safely and effectively. I have tried it myself, by intentionally shorting the charging port while riding the EUC. The charge port disabled itself due to the short, and the EUC continued running without a hiccup.
   I completely believe Adam experienced a cutout during wet weather, but his claim of the cause is just wrong.
    
2. Lack of constructive advice.
   After all his criticism of the pack design, the only advice Adam offered viewers was 'get rid of your old Gotway' (paraphrased).
   A big missed opportunity to discuss fire safety and preparedness!
   Even if you buy a shiny new EUC including a battery in an immersion-rated box and an output-interrupting BMS, cell fires are still possible. Knowing what they're like and what to do if one happens is universally-applicable knowledge. Fostering an idea that 'new EUC's won't burn, don't worry' is harmful!
    

Unconstructive sensationalism! Boo this man!

But let's blame Adam first

 

 

I agree. I think his intent was good - to draw more attention to Gotway/Begode QC issues, but he should have just stuck with the basics instead of getting into the technical details which is not his expertise.

He is a reviewer/influencer and a 2 min video of him announcing he is selling all his Gotways because of fear of battery issues would have the same effect. There is no need to justify or "confirm" the poor build quality when this has been common knowledge for a while. The more technical details he gets into, the more risk of him making a mistake or wrong explanation and then the Gotway fanboys will laser focus on that one technical mistake/explanation and the overall message gets drowned out.

I am happy that finally a mainstream influencer is putting pressure on Gotway by way of real action/leading by example, and not just the throwing in the typical  disclaimer "well the quality is bad but the ride is amazing, so if you are OK with that, then I still recommend it". Kudos to Adam for stepping up and saying enough is enough.

[Paul A]

More information about the fires in Stockholm that destroyed a house and an apartment would be useful.

[Mrd777]

Hey @Jason McNeil,  we all appreciate this recall and understand the logistics with global shipping currently, however can you outline a general schedule how and when these 900wh packs can be exchanged?,  price & timing?... even disposing these packs seems complicated etc. 

Im obviously anxious to get another battery for my MSP.   Thanks for putting this all together!