INMOTION V12

[rcgldr]

On 11/17/2021 at 11:17 PM, Some Canadian said:

One thing I noticed is that the "default" tilt of the wheel seems like it ever so slightly is tilting backwards, I've run the calibration twice and it still seems to "level" a few degrees off perfectly level.

My V8F tilt default is 1 degree backwards, using a level app on the pedals and comparing it's trolley handle to a vertical line on a wall. I had to set it to +1.0 degrees to get rid of the backwards tilt. Pedals now show level using the level app, and trolley handle is now vertical. The V10 and larger models don't have a vertical trolley handle, but you can use a level app to check the pedals, and maybe the top of the shell if that is flat and supposed to be horizontal.

update - or ride forwards with the EUC facing forwards, stop, turn the EUC 180 and ride forwards with the EUC facing backwards. If the pedal tilt feels the same with EUC facing forwards and backwards, it is at least close to zero degrees pedal tilt.

Edited November 19, 2021 by rcgldr

[EUCandME]

27 minutes ago, rcgldr said:

My V8F tilt default is 1 degree backwards, using a level app on the pedals and comparing it's trolley handle to a vertical line on a wall. I had to set it to +1.0 degrees to get rid of the backwards tilt. Pedals now show level using the level app, and trolley handle is now vertical. The V10 and larger models don't have a vertical trolley handle, but you can use a level app to check the pedals, and maybe the top of the shell if that is flat and supposed to be horizontal.

I'm not sure about the v12 but with the v10F it is difficult to calibrate the wheel using a level  as you have to use the front of the wheel and lean it on the ground in order to calibrate. Source:

I get what you are saying about the wheel being overall level however typically in offroad mode the wheel can start off level but gradually lean back as you ride faster. 

Edited November 18, 2021 by EUCandME

[Paul A]

Review by Wrong Way.

 

[Richardo]

How long do you think this will stay Adam's Favorite Wheel? 

 

I just can't imagine him sticking with InMotion (too much safety) but at the same time Gotway has burned people he knows personally. 

[Waulnut]

1 hour ago, Richardo said:

How long do you think this will stay Adam's Favorite Wheel? 

 

Prob until S20 is out. 

[Paul A]

S20 is probably going to exceed all other wheels.

Non suspension wheels can be stressful and painful on the body.

Possibly cumulative damage, akin to nerve damage to jackhammer operators.

[conecones]

33 minutes ago, Paul A said:

S20 is probably going to exceed all other wheels.

Non suspension wheels can be stressful and painful on the body.

Possibly cumulative damage, akin to nerve damage to jackhammer operators.

 What kind of riding do you think people are doing? Riding nothing but stairs?

Doesn't take much to snap the axle of a traditional EUC motor. Casing a decent sized jump is usually enough. Only the very recent hollow motors can truly withstand more punishment than the typical off-road rider can dish out. Humans are surprisingly tough! Especially the pro riders who use the secret technique of bending the knees.

[ESB]

Went on a short 15-20 minute test ride this morning before work. I was happy to be able to easily mount and start riding despite the much heavier wheel and higher pedals. I had only ever ridden a 16S before and read that learning a second wheel can be really tricky (3rd and beyond becomes much easier supposedly)

But I did it!

It'll take me some time to get more comfortable with the wider tire and heavier wheel. I can really feel the weight of it when turning. I also miss the thickkkk stock pads on the 16s which were so comfy. Maybe I'll get some kind of power pads for the v12 despite not really wanting to do what the youtubers do (go 40+mph and do jumps and stuff)

Looks like it won't rain this weekend here in Seattle so I'm excited to take it on more of a real maiden voyage.

[Paul A]

Ordinary riding on roads/paths, not stairs, jumps etc, can cause jarring and pain to the lower back, especially around the kidneys.

Duf makes similar comments.

The kidneys have very fine, tiny blood vessels (nephrons).

 

Jackhammer injuries:

'Operating a jackhammer or any handheld tool that vibrates exposes the body to pulsing and shaking that can affect circulation in the hands and fingers. Over time, this can permanently damage the blood vessels, nerves and muscles in the hand and arm. The shoulders and neck can also be affected.'

[Richardo]

Damn i just bought one of those massage guns and have spent the whole week working on my left kidney

 

[Paul A]

Suggest reading medical research papers on effects of vibrations on body.

[mrelwood]

20 hours ago, Some Canadian said:

(my MSX does indeed feel "torquier"/more responsive

…)

I do wish there was a bit more "oomph" behind it, like with my MSX

Try a softer pedal sensitivity. Acceleration and braking require less effort with a softer response. Especially on the Commuter mode.

 Very nice review BTW!

Edited November 19, 2021 by mrelwood

[Waulnut]

I took the v12 to 30 mph today, middle pedal height, split mode (~60/~75). It was a bit sketchy when hitting a decline then into an incline. Maybe because of the top heaviness wanted to throw some weight around. But I might want to tune the split mode more. 

I remembered my RS plowed into the same spot feeling good, but it did have batch 1 low pedals. A trade off for stability vs carviness and less pedal clipping. 

I also took the wheel down a long downhill in commuter mode, the pedals tilted a quite high as I eased down the hill. At that point, I felt like I was going to tip backwards and I couldn't get leveled. I eventually got to the bottom, but it was uncomfortable until I stopped. First time experiencing this on any of wheels I've ridden on the same route (S18, 16x, RSS). Still likey from improper tuning on my part. 

Ill try suggestions for settings. For sure I'll try off-road mode if it makes any difference. 

[Some Canadian]

2 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Try a softer pedal sensitivity. Acceleration and braking require less effort with a softer response. Especially on the Commuter mode.

 Very nice review BTW!

Hmm softer, as in turn it down from 100%? I would have thought that would make it less responsive, but I'll definitely give it a shot! Thanks for the suggestion =) and glad you enjoyed the review!

[Silverfish]

4 hours ago, Paul A said:

Suggest reading medical research papers on effects of vibrations on body.

if your wheel vibrates like a jackhammer its probably broken

[EUCandME]

2 hours ago, Waulnut said:

I took the v12 to 30 mph today, middle pedal height, split mode (~60/~75). It was a bit sketchy when hitting a decline then into an incline. Maybe because of the top heaviness wanted to throw some weight around. But I might want to tune the split mode more. 

I remembered my RS plowed into the same spot feeling good, but it did have batch 1 low pedals. A trade off for stability vs carviness and less pedal clipping. 

I also took the wheel down a long downhill in commuter mode, the pedals tilted a quite high as I eased down the hill. At that point, I felt like I was going to tip backwards and I couldn't get leveled. I eventually got to the bottom, but it was uncomfortable until I stopped. First time experiencing this on any of wheels I've ridden on the same route (S18, 16x, RSS). Still likey from improper tuning on my part. 

Ill try suggestions for settings. For sure I'll try off-road mode if it makes any difference. 

I have noticed that at some point you have owned a V10. Could you care to share if the V10 and the V12 are similar rides feel/style? 

[Paul A]

Vibrations from riding a non suspension wheel on roads, paths.

 

[Paul A]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/cyclists-get-scrotal-trauma-warning-634258.html%3famp

 

The Independent.

Friday 20 October 2000

 

A study published in The Lancet today shows 96 per cent of mountain-bikers suffered from scrotal abnormalities and were also three times more likely to suffer from sperm containing cysts than non-cyclists.

Constant saddle vibrations and shocks from cycling overrough ground are thought to be the main reasons for the high levels of scrotal trauma. 

_________________

 

It is conceivable cumulative damage to kidneys is possible.

[EUCandME]

6 minutes ago, Paul A said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/cyclists-get-scrotal-trauma-warning-634258.html%3famp

 

The Independent.

Friday 20 October 2000

 

A study published in The Lancet today shows 96 per cent of mountain-bikers suffered from scrotal abnormalities and were also three times more likely to suffer from sperm containing cysts than non-cyclists.

Constant saddle vibrations and shocks from cycling overrough ground are thought to be the main reasons for the high levels of scrotal trauma. 

_________________

 

It is conceivable cumulative damage to kidneys is possible.

Whilst i do understand your original point I don't think that source is the best for this use case. It is referring to damage due to seated mountain bikers. Where as an EUC you would rarely even be able to sit on those types of conditions. Regarding how it may affect your knees and ankles etc from your earlier point you are correct it will have some impact. However you can relate this to similar forces to a runner. Suspension of course will make it better but will never completely solve it. Your source actually backs up this point as most mountain bikers have full suspension bikes and they still suffer these issues. 

Edited November 19, 2021 by EUCandME

[Paul A]

It illustrates that vibrations cause damage.

Pain is indicative of damage.

Lower back pain is possibly indicative of damage to nearby kidneys.

[EUCandME]

1 minute ago, Paul A said:

It illustrates that vibrations cause damage.

Pain is indicative of damage.

Lower back pain is possibly indicative of damage to nearby kidneys.

I agreed with you on that. Suspension will act as a damper but further precautions and study's would need to be carried out to completely avoid these symptoms. 

[Paul A]

Yes

[EUCandME]

9 minutes ago, Paul A said:

Lower back pain is possibly indicative of damage to nearby kidneys.

 

4 minutes ago, Paul A said:

Yes

The even funnier part is some people have stated EUC actually helps them cure back problems etc which is amazing! I think everyone's experiences are different.  EUC I really do believe is the future of compact transportation. 

Edited November 19, 2021 by EUCandME

[conecones]

15 hours ago, Paul A said:

Ordinary riding on roads/paths, not stairs, jumps etc, can cause jarring and pain to the lower back, especially around the kidneys.

Duf makes similar comments.

The kidneys have very fine, tiny blood vessels (nephrons).

 

Jackhammer injuries:

'Operating a jackhammer or any handheld tool that vibrates exposes the body to pulsing and shaking that can affect circulation in the hands and fingers. Over time, this can permanently damage the blood vessels, nerves and muscles in the hand and arm. The shoulders and neck can also be affected.'

Can't tell if this is serious or purposeful exaggeration to highlight a point. This is some real armchair doctor diagnosis to be linking kidney damage to riding EUC's without suspension! Similarly far-fetched comparison to HAVS which ironically is one of the least understood issues in occupational safety. There's general guidelines on threshold exposure levels that a worker should not exceed in a day, but there's no true safe limit and symptoms depend highly on the individual. 

In any case most people aren't riding EUC's 8+ hrs a day over bumps for a paycheck. They ride out of enjoyment. Needless to say, if people experience pain, they generally stop doing the activity. Just keep in mind there is a difference between "pain" from muscle soreness, and pain from an injury. For new riders and riders just starting out doing offroading/stunts, etc., the "pain" is usually muscle soreness and goes away after the body adapts.

Most are riding on the streets on non suspended wheels and everyone seems to be doing just fine. Personally I've done over 10,000 km in the past year commuting daily and doing off road rides on the weekend. This is probably more than the average mileage. All on non-suspended wheels, all injuries related to falls, not potholes or bumpy roads and definitely not vibration related lol.

[RagingGrandpa]

I split off the recent posts regarding firmware update issues, please make any related comments there:

We can carry on with discussion of (male anatomy?) in this megathread