Popular Post mrelwood Posted October 29, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted October 29, 2021 11 hours ago, evans036 said: there have been issues with water getting into the bearings so they need to be replaced. Further consideration on the information itself may be warranted. How many separate V12 units have you heard of having bearing issues? What it has seemed to me is that following the long lasted and very relevant V11 bearing issues, the first bearing issue on the V12 started a panic wave, followed by many YouTubers and concerned forum members talking about “the V12 bearing issues popping here and there”. Although the “here and there” part was exactly what they were doing themselves. Besides the generic “all the V12 bearing issues”, I have only read about one single V12 unit with a bearing failure. I’m of course not claiming that it’s the only one in existence. But considering that I follow Inmotion related chats and topics pretty closely, the reactions have waaaaay surpassed the actual news value. Every single mass produced product has a failure percentage higher than 0%. That is normal. One unit out of the thousands being sold is less than 0.1%. As a failure percentage it would be stellar enough to be impossible for a relatively affordable product made in China. Overall GW warranty % at Ecodrift was something like 15%, with some GW models closer to 30%. 11 hours ago, evans036 said: kill switch not working (they forgot to plug it in) there are sundry other issues too Same question applies: On how many separate units? 11 hours ago, evans036 said: most of the issues i have heard about seem to be related to water penetration - the v12 is perhaps not as water resistant as we thought The display is not as well shielded from water as it could. That’s the only V12 issue I’ve read about on more than one unit. Besides, most of them were either riding in a pouring rain, or the one who stored the wheel outside 24/7 for a few months with the night temperatures nearing zero. That causes a lot of condensation, and I’d definitely consider it to be an user error. 9 hours ago, evans036 said: was tempted to cancel my v12 order in favor of an rs19 - bit i didnt. Thank goodness you didn’t! If I had to choose, I’d rather replace both the display and the bearings on a V12 every other month than to ride the RS19. It would’ve been a bit like canceling a Mercedes order for a Peugeot 205 GTI… 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziiten Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 2 hours ago, mrelwood said: Further consideration on the information itself may be warranted. How many separate V12 units have you heard of having bearing issues? What it has seemed to me is that following the long lasted and very relevant V11 bearing issues, the first bearing issue on the V12 started a panic wave, followed by many YouTubers and concerned forum members talking about “the V12 bearing issues popping here and there”. Although the “here and there” part was exactly what they were doing themselves. Besides the generic “all the V12 bearing issues”, I have only read about one single V12 unit with a bearing failure. I’m of course not claiming that it’s the only one in existence. But considering that I follow Inmotion related chats and topics pretty closely, the reactions have waaaaay surpassed the actual news value. The display is not as well shielded from water as it could. That’s the only V12 issue I’ve read about on more than one unit. Besides, most of them were either riding in a pouring rain, or the one who stored the wheel outside 24/7 for a few months with the night temperatures nearing zero. That causes a lot of condensation, and I’d definitely consider it to be an user error. That 24/7 outside storage case would be me. However, that only caused condensation inside the display. What finally killed my display was rain. The display seems to be on but is completely black. And this happened after one incident, not after months of riding in the rain. Bluetooth is luckily working still. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Evans Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 10 hours ago, mrelwood said: Further consideration on the information itself may be warranted. How many separate V12 units have you heard of having bearing issues? What it has seemed to me is that following the long lasted and very relevant V11 bearing issues, the first bearing issue on the V12 started a panic wave, followed by many YouTubers and concerned forum members talking about “the V12 bearing issues popping here and there”. Although the “here and there” part was exactly what they were doing themselves. Besides the generic “all the V12 bearing issues”, I have only read about one single V12 unit with a bearing failure. I’m of course not claiming that it’s the only one in existence. But considering that I follow Inmotion related chats and topics pretty closely, the reactions have waaaaay surpassed the actual news value. Every single mass produced product has a failure percentage higher than 0%. That is normal. One unit out of the thousands being sold is less than 0.1%. As a failure percentage it would be stellar enough to be impossible for a relatively affordable product made in China. Overall GW warranty % at Ecodrift was something like 15%, with some GW models closer to 30%. Same question applies: On how many separate units? The display is not as well shielded from water as it could. That’s the only V12 issue I’ve read about on more than one unit. Besides, most of them were either riding in a pouring rain, or the one who stored the wheel outside 24/7 for a few months with the night temperatures nearing zero. That causes a lot of condensation, and I’d definitely consider it to be an user error. Thank goodness you didn’t! If I had to choose, I’d rather replace both the display and the bearings on a V12 every other month than to ride the RS19. It would’ve been a bit like canceling a Mercedes order for a Peugeot 205 GTI… i hope you're right about most of this being hype. most of my info regarding v12 issues have come Jenifer Crushers vids. she is only one data point but has mentioned others have had problems too. her primary issue was bearings which ewheels fixed, but a couple days after that her wheel died (dont know details of that failure). but you are right in that we tend to focus (and over emphasize) negative news. and most of my info is from the rumor-mill. thanks for the response. steve 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 16 minutes ago, evans036 said: but you are right in that we tend to focus (and over emphasize) negative news. and most of my info is from the rumor-mill. That’s how humans are designed to behave, to focus on elements of danger. Seeing the bigger picture is often difficult. And since most of the info we all get are from rumor-mills, as you so well said, the recipe for distorted information is pretty much a given. I don’t know if I’m doing any better myself, but I definitely do try. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scytalle Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 21 hours ago, BongoFlip said: However I'm surprised that the wheel launched without any confirmation of future accessories, such as an official Inmotion seat (like on the V11) or power pads. The V12 has an interesting "snap on" power pad feature I hear little talk about, but would make for great 3rd party power pads Snap on power pad feature? What's the details on that? I don't think I've heard that mentioned in any of the reviews I've watched unless I missed it. I'm a new rider so I'm planning on learning before investing in power pads or anything, but it's on my list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BongoFlip Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 5 hours ago, Scytalle said: Snap on power pad feature? What's the details on that? I don't think I've heard that mentioned in any of the reviews I've watched unless I missed it. I'm a new rider so I'm planning on learning before investing in power pads or anything, but it's on my list. Electric Dreams mentions it in their video of the production V12 (although he also mentions that after water damage it doesn’t sit flush against the V12 anymore). There was also an unboxing of a V12 (non production) where the user had to manually snap in their side pads (although I can’t find the video now). I’m just waiting for mine to show up, hopefully today or Monday, and I’ll take some pictures. Eevee’s mentioned they have someone designing some snap-in pads for the V12, they might have some more info on it too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tawpie Posted October 30, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted October 30, 2021 (edited) Funny thing about different brands and their reputations for 'quality'... Most folks that buy a Honda car do so with the expectation that they'll be able to get in, start it, and get to where they want to go—every single time. Owners of a wire spoked long bonnet antique Jaguar know that they'll be forever trying to convince their precious to actually run and not have the Lucas electrics catch fire. But when that Jag is humming, there's little that can compare to the experience. I think InMotion finds themselves in a spot where they're pushing the category forward but are still carrying expectations of Honda-like reliability and 'initial quality'. Consequently folks are very sensitive to any and all reports of disappointment. When Gotway pushes range and speed like they did with the Monster Pro, the clickbait factor of a discovery that the thing might have quality issues is kind of 'meh'. That same revelation for an InMotion product raises eyebrows because it's out of line with current expectations. Now, to me, a bearing failure (or several) in the first few hundred units is not concerning because defective parts happen. The displays might not actually be totally waterproof... same thing—design defects happen too (remember the extra vinyl sticker eWheels shipped with early Shermans? bat_lou sound familiar?). All in all, if I were head of InMotion design and production I'd be very pleased with the first batch... it wasn't terrible by any measure. Batch 2 is just coming on line so we'll see if the design and production can withstand scaling up... from the pictures I've seen it's not going to be completely trouble free. More units mean less TLC is given to each one so I am fully expecting to see more and new places where either design or production needs rework. But in no way does it mean a body shouldn't seriously consider a V12... it is proving itself to be a real win for InMotion and for the hobby as a whole. Edited October 30, 2021 by Tawpie 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post yoos Posted October 30, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted October 30, 2021 ecodrift teardown of second batch V12. Mostly focuses on differences with respect to batch one. Here's a loose translation: The differences are: slightly increased weight, now at 29.4kg reinforced trolley handle extra board on the connection to LEDs (their guess is it was added to fix some incorrect color issues) the phase wires are now routed slightly differently within the control board box, apparently to prevent them touching the radiator of the top board. Problems still present in this batch: LED strips still too dim the rubber piece through which battery cables enter the control board box is still without sealing. Water ingress is prevented only by the high position of this entrance point. (In contrast, the rubber entrance for the phase wires going to the motor is well sealed) the rubber seal running around the control board is still not covering the full circumference Other observations: the dowel pin fixing the axle is cylindrical, but the corresponding axle cutout is rectangular quality control was a miss on this wheel -- see the photo where the wires enter the axle. The wires were fine but the insulation was damaged along with the protective spring. Only two weld spots were found where the motor is welded to the axle, which could eventually fail under vibrations. More welding should be done. Bearings seem to be good One of the trolley handle screws is a bit loose already. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Evans Posted October 30, 2021 Share Posted October 30, 2021 47 minutes ago, yoos said: ecodrift teardown of second batch V12. Mostly focuses on differences with respect to batch one. Here's a loose translation: The differences are: slightly increased weight, now at 29.4kg reinforced trolley handle extra board on the connection to LEDs (their guess is it was added to fix some incorrect color issues) the phase wires are now routed slightly differently within the control board box, apparently to prevent them touching the radiator of the top board. Problems still present in this batch: LED strips still too dim the rubber piece through which battery cables enter the control board box is still without sealing. Water ingress is prevented only by the high position of this entrance point. (In contrast, the rubber entrance for the phase wires going to the motor is well sealed) the rubber seal running around the control board is still not covering the full circumference Other observations: the dowel pin fixing the axle is cylindrical, but the corresponding axle cutout is rectangular quality control was a miss on this wheel -- see the photo where the wires enter the axle. The wires were fine but the insulation was damaged along with the protective spring. Only two weld spots were found where the motor is welded to the axle, which could eventually fail under vibrations. More welding should be done. Bearings seem to be good One of the trolley handle screws is a bit loose already. so these are differences between batch 1 and batch 2? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoos Posted October 30, 2021 Share Posted October 30, 2021 39 minutes ago, evans036 said: so these are differences between batch 1 and batch 2? Apparently, yes. However, unless you intend to open the wheel, only the new trolley should be noticeable to the user. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No1up Posted October 30, 2021 Share Posted October 30, 2021 Can this really be considered batch 2 though? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoos Posted October 30, 2021 Share Posted October 30, 2021 17 minutes ago, No1up said: Can this really be considered batch 2 though? Good question. It think it can, in the sense that there was a first small shipment of V12 in July, and this is now the second, much later shipment and the wheels in this new shipment are different in tangible ways. That is what many would call a second batch. It is not a V12 version 2 or anything and I don't think inmotion differentiates the batches in a marketing sense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanBatman Posted October 30, 2021 Share Posted October 30, 2021 Does anyone know what cells these are running? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No1up Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 LG50s last I read 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoos Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 11 hours ago, Trevor Phillips said: Does anyone know what cells these are running? LG M50LT (there is a close-up photo of a cell in the teardown) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enlightened0ne Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 On 10/26/2021 at 4:22 PM, Richardo said: Adam Wrong Way just dropped a very positive impression video of the wheel, a huge departure from his earlier takes on the pre-release model. I didn't catch whether this is a sponsored testing wheel, a sponsor gift wheel, or one he paid for himself, so I'm suspicious of "the gratitude effect" - but in any case it's nice to see him some positive v12 riding. I'm really curious where this wheel fits into the EUC universe over the next few years. He said he's considering buying one himself and actually put up a poll about whether he should sell his MSP to buy a V12... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lirva Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 33 minutes ago, enlightened0ne said: He said he's considering buying one himself and actually put up a poll about whether he should sell his MSP to buy a V12... I did it and regret it already, but mine is waiting for none existing parts. It's good deal if it works and is waterproof. We'll see when the bigger batches get out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanBatman Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 How about when it was working? I have a RS HT and a V12 on the way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wuffenstare Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 So how about that boat… huh guys. Lol. Like watching paint dry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waulnut Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 Just now, Wuffenstare said: So how about that boat… huh guys. Lol. Like watching paint dry. I had high hopes of docking today, but it's gonna be a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wuffenstare Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 As someone who is closer the maritime industries then most, this has been interesting to watch this bit of it. As painful as it’s been it’s also kind of fun and watch…although that’s probably more indicative of what I’ve got going on at this point. (very excited to watch them move their circles out farther because of the weather…) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ESB Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 Does anyone know if the only wheels on the boat are based on people who made a deposit prior to some cutoff date? Or does eWheels order “extras” to have some in stock? I placed my deposit last week and am unsure if it’s realistic to expect my v12 in November/December as part of this boat’s shipment or if it’ll be on the next boat and looking more like jan-March. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Evans Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 5 hours ago, ESB said: Does anyone know if the only wheels on the boat are based on people who made a deposit prior to some cutoff date? Or does eWheels order “extras” to have some in stock? I placed my deposit last week and am unsure if it’s realistic to expect my v12 in November/December as part of this boat’s shipment or if it’ll be on the next boat and looking more like jan-March. send them an email. they are usually pretty quick to answer those kinds of questions (notwithstanding the fire at their facility :-( ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waulnut Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 15 hours ago, Wuffenstare said: As someone who is closer the maritime industries then most, this has been interesting to watch this bit of it. As painful as it’s been it’s also kind of fun and watch…although that’s probably more indicative of what I’ve got going on at this point. (very excited to watch them move their circles out farther because of the weather…) The boat is on the move 🙌. It was quite exciting to see a missing a boat missing from the group formation 😆. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyRider Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 1 hour ago, Waulnut said: The boat is on the move 🙌. It was quite exciting to see a missing a boat missing from the group formation 😆. It looks like the ship has docked at the Los Angeles port for unloading! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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