Kingsong S20/S22 (Confirmed)

[sway2127]

2 hours ago, rolis said:

from KS

We are interested in exploring the option to allow riders to maintain the 70kmh meaning tilt back will only start at around 73kmh with a less aggressive tilt. The original is 22 degrees tilt back and we are contemplating a lesser degree. How do you feel about a firmware like this?

This is honestly what I was hoping for - it's not really a useable top speed if the wheel is tilting back at that point.  I hope the riders that have Kingsong's ear agree and convince them to do it.

[Paul A]

For the front bumper, maybe use the same type of plastic that is used in CE certified elbow/knee/back/shoulder guards of protective gear?

Highly shock absorbent.

 

[yoos]

55 minutes ago, Paul A said:

For the front bumper, maybe use the same type of plastic that is used in CE certified elbow/knee/back/shoulder guards of protective gear?

Highly shock absorbent.

If you mean viscoelastics like D3O then their main advantage (flexible normally but "hard" on impact) is wasted on a bumper. Helmet technology might be more appropriate. 

A thick rubber, like on the V12 will do just fine. It should withstand/cushion a forward drop from standing. That bumper/handle is just a small part on the front of the EUC. No point in developing the perfect high-impact bumper when all the other sides of the wheel are bumperless and a typical tumble hits the EUC all over. 

[Funky]

2 hours ago, Paradox said:

Don't know who or why this video was made.  This is the same video as the facebook post above.

 

Well that's one way to get your wheel down stairs faster. Beats carrying that thing.

Now we need drop test from 5th floor.  

Edited February 12, 2022 by Funky

[RagingGrandpa]

9 hours ago, rolis said:

The s20 testing is getting on a whole other level 😆

Facebook post

 

Ok now let's see them drop it on the rear suspension linkage

[pkinpdx]

https://imgur.com/a/45MMwow
 

ok I took pictures.  I haven’t had a chance to measure my v12 width in comparison but it felt wider but not uncomfortably so.  They had two s20s to demo and they were set up differently.  One set up was significantly softer than they other.  I rode that one first on the street.  It has a surprisingly quick turn in on low speed corners.  It feels I little like the heinadou k66 for low speed on street.  My first turn I dropped further than I expected and it shut off as I exceeded the 40 degree angle.  I was able to catch the wheel before it fell so no harm.  I connected the app and switched it to 70 degree lean angle and it worked no problem. Lower pads felt ok but you really have to jam your toes in to get leverage because of the angle.  Between the ultra squish suspension this one had and the pad setup I struggled to get this beast more than 4 to 5 inches off the ground jumping.  I tried a flat drop off a 2 foot ledge and even with the soft settings didn’t bottom out and it felt like a cloud landing.  Upper pads are annoying and nearly useless.  You can use them for acceleration but you have to have your ass hanging on the ground to touch the back part and even then they are floppy so you can’t get any leverage.  Worthless cosmetic fluff.  
Torque is hard to describe.  For those that have been riding RS torque or the like it will take some getting used too.  Even in hard mode there is no instant bite like gotway wheels have.  It’s super smooth and linear.  That being said, a long time EXN speed rider and a rev rides rider on the s20 raced for about 1/8 mile on a straightaway and the s20 won.  They probably hit mid 40’s in speed.

It is the best stock seated ride I have ever experienced.  If you aren’t racing you should be sitting.

I took the stiffer setup one on a few trails.  I initially felt like I was trying to fit a Cadillac on some single track but after navigating a few obstacles it felt fine.  Goes exactly where you tell it, cruises over minor stuff without thought.  The trail I was on had lots of big roots crossing and after a bit I just ignored anything that wasn’t curb height or more.  It’s really controllable at low speed so highly technical trails should be no problem and if you decide to just stop trying to pick your line the suspension will probably save you.  I didn’t try that approach since it wasn’t my wheel.  The tire is magnificent.  So Much Grip!  I was in wet soil conditions but no mud and I really wanted to rip.  It inspires a lot of confidence.

The plastic front bumper is paper mache but it sounds like king song will make a better one.  We have local entrepreneurs already designing TPU ones. Pedals are fine, better grip than grip tape but I prefer the Clark style spikes for better grip.

i found it easy to pick up in comparison to the s18.  S18 was super slick so trying to grab quick was a pain.  There are lots of places to grab on this beast.  They really do need to stiffen the lift handle though.

I would say the exn vs s20 test confirms it would beat a Sherman.

acceleration and braking both felt great.  I had no need to grab a handle to brake harder.  Super stable at speed.  I probably only took it to 35 or so but in the above race much higher speeds were hit.

lift sender will not activate unless it’s stopped, they are also fixing it so it won’t flop as much.  When you have the seat on it acts as a capture for it so it won’t flop out without effort.  
I checked the functionality of changing the rear light color.  The app has a screen to do so but it currently isn’t working.  Eevees said that they think it’s because it’s preproduction.

sorry… didn’t  test the robustness of the batteries.  Eevees told me to put my hammer back in the car.

 

 

[Flying W]

I don't think any of the suspended wheels will crash as well as the older designs but my dirt bike doesn't come out perfect either. 

If some plastic parts snap and absorb impact but riding out is still doable I think that's as good as it's going to be.

I'm a little sad that Mike said the torque isn't as much as the RST. This can be (and sure it will be) the best off road wheel we've ever had but I'd trade some top end for as much torque as possible. 

The could always make a shorter travel stiffer sprung version in a high speed variant for street riding. 

I'm still super excited for this wheel though! 

[Flying W]

@pkinpdx do you get to climb any hills and if you did don't seem to run cool. 

Some of my rides are uphill for miles, of anyone is in socal and has gone up saddleback mnt they know what a strain that puts on the board. So far my RST handles that climb just fine. 

For what I'd want to do with the S20 cooling is very important.

That initial bite on the gotways really helps for slow steep downhill sections, I hope the 20 can tip toe down steep trails with similar confidence. 

I was two main wheels this year, a high speed wheel for commuting, and this one dedicated to off road use. Hoping by the fall production levels and port back logs will be better and these will be more available. 

Thank you for observations!

[5Cauac]

19 minutes ago, pkinpdx said:

https://imgur.com/a/45MMwow
 

ok I took pictures.  I haven’t had a chance to measure my v12 width in comparison but it felt wider but not uncomfortably so.  They had two s20s to demo and they were set up differently.  One set up was significantly softer than they other.  I rode that one first on the street.  It has a surprisingly quick turn in on low speed corners.  It feels I little like the heinadou k66 for low speed on street.  My first turn I dropped further than I expected and it shut off as I exceeded the 40 degree angle.  I was able to catch the wheel before it fell so no harm.  I connected the app and switched it to 70 degree lean angle and it worked no problem. Lower pads felt ok but you really have to jam your toes in to get leverage because of the angle.  Between the ultra squish suspension this one had and the pad setup I struggled to get this beast more than 4 to 5 inches off the ground jumping.  I tried a flat drop off a 2 foot ledge and even with the soft settings didn’t bottom out and it felt like a cloud landing.  Upper pads are annoying and nearly useless.  You can use them for acceleration but you have to have your ass hanging on the ground to touch the back part and even then they are floppy so you can’t get any leverage.  Worthless cosmetic fluff.  
Torque is hard to describe.  For those that have been riding RS torque or the like it will take some getting used too.  Even in hard mode there is no instant bite like gotway wheels have.  It’s super smooth and linear.  That being said, a long time EXN speed rider and a rev rides rider on the s20 raced for about 1/8 mile on a straightaway and the s20 won.  They probably hit mid 40’s in speed.

It is the best stock seated ride I have ever experienced.  If you aren’t racing you should be sitting.

I took the stiffer setup one on a few trails.  I initially felt like I was trying to fit a Cadillac on some single track but after navigating a few obstacles it felt fine.  Goes exactly where you tell it, cruises over minor stuff without thought.  The trail I was on had lots of big roots crossing and after a bit I just ignored anything that wasn’t curb height or more.  It’s really controllable at low speed so highly technical trails should be no problem and if you decide to just stop trying to pick your line the suspension will probably save you.  I didn’t try that approach since it wasn’t my wheel.  The tire is magnificent.  So Much Grip!  I was in wet soil conditions but no mud and I really wanted to rip.  It inspires a lot of confidence.

The plastic front bumper is paper mache but it sounds like king song will make a better one.  We have local entrepreneurs already designing TPU ones. Pedals are fine, better grip than grip tape but I prefer the Clark style spikes for better grip.

i found it easy to pick up in comparison to the s18.  S18 was super slick so trying to grab quick was a pain.  There are lots of places to grab on this beast.  They really do need to stiffen the lift handle though.

I would say the exn vs s20 test confirms it would beat a Sherman.

acceleration and braking both felt great.  I had no need to grab a handle to brake harder.  Super stable at speed.  I probably only took it to 35 or so but in the above race much higher speeds were hit.

lift sender will not activate unless it’s stopped, they are also fixing it so it won’t flop as much.  When you have the seat on it acts as a capture for it so it won’t flop out without effort.  
I checked the functionality of changing the rear light color.  The app has a screen to do so but it currently isn’t working.  Eevees said that they think it’s because it’s preproduction.

sorry… didn’t  test the robustness of the batteries.  Eevees told me to put my hammer back in the car.

 

 

Thanks for the great write up @pkinpdx. I guess it's now my job to get good video footage.😁

[pkinpdx]

10 minutes ago, Flying W said:

@pkinpdx do you get to climb any hills and if you did don't seem to run cool. 

Some of my rides are uphill for miles, of anyone is in socal and has gone up saddleback mnt they know what a strain that puts on the board. So far my RST handles that climb just fine. 

For what I'd want to do with the S20 cooling is very important.

That initial bite on the gotways really helps for slow steep downhill sections, I hope the 20 can tip toe down steep trails with similar confidence. 

I was two main wheels this year, a high speed wheel for commuting, and this one dedicated to off road use. Hoping by the fall production levels and port back logs will be better and these will be more available. 

Thank you for observations!

There wasn't any significant hills and our temperatures were pretty low.  high 40's F so no real test of cooling.  That being said, as long as they didn't do anything drastically different with cooling from the s18 you wont have issues.  I couldn't get my s18 over 135 on hot summer days doing nothing but climbing.  My buddy had to stop 3 times with his MSX one day while i rode in little circles around him.

Also had an emergency brake on the trail as i ran into some high school kids partying in the woods.  scared us both but the s20 was perfect.  Stopped hard with great feel from the tire. 

I am in the same boat as far as what wheels I will be using this next year.  I have a Sherman Max with the full Ewheels battery treatment currently on a boat for my street riding and then ill pick up an S20 later in the spring for trail.  I may also use the S20 for our crazy group rides.  We end up with 100+ half drunk people on them sometimes and the number of times an eskate or onewheeler has gone down in front of me is not a comfortable number.  S20 i just wont swerve.  Use them for a ramp and high five the moon.

[Afeez Kay]

My day 1 Initial thoughts on the Kingsong S20

 

[Paul A]

KS has actuality uploaded the front bumper smash video onto their YouTube channel.

Was KS actually smashing the wheel them self to test it?

Was KS also the ones dropping the S20 onto the ground from a staircase?

 

Testing video of the front handle material that will be used on the S20 bulk order.

488 views · 12 hours ago

[Paradox]

I am planning on making a stand for the S20.  How high, wide and how far apart do the supports need to be?  I am thinking 6" deep by 10 inches tall and 6 inches clearance between the sides. 

Thoughts?

Edited February 12, 2022 by Paradox

[Funky]

33 minutes ago, Paradox said:

I am planning on making a stand for the S20.  How high, wide and how far apart do the supports need to be?  I am thinking 6" deep by 10 inches tall and 6 inches clearance between the sides. 

Thoughts?

Make a drive on stand then.. No need to lift, after driving on it automatically stands it self. I made one for my 18xl.

Edited February 12, 2022 by Funky

[Paradox]

6 minutes ago, Funky said:

Make a drive on stand then.. No need to lift, after driving on it automatically stands it self. I made one for my 18xl.

I would love to see pictures of your stand.

Thanks!

[Paul A]

From an older thread:  How do you store your EUC?

Picture of EUC stand used by member Jrkline "Wheel Whisperer".

 

[Tawpie]

Thanks to #revrides, who brought their pair of S20s up to demo today, I got to spend a few moments with it...

tldr; This is going to be a very popular wheel, and I'm super glad I pre-ordered.

I didn't ride it for long (10 minutes?), and only slowly, and only on pavement because it's not my wheel and I was super paranoid about dropping it. We've already seen what happens to the front handle. I was concerned about weight... the lifting ergonomics are quite good and it didn't feel at all as heavy to lift as I was imagining. I'll be able to get it up and down my 1 flight of stairs. I did get to tip it most of the way over and lift it back up, also not nearly as difficult as I was imagining... that part is not an automatic non-starter in my book, I was very worried about it (at least it's ok for me on pavement). It's wide, but in the short time I rode it was "just fine". There are lots of lift points, so that'll help. Even with my light weight, I could bounce the suspension—the one I rode around on was set pretty soft and I'll have to see about a lighter spring so I get the adjustability back (with the stock spring the soft setting will be my only option... I expect the stiffer settings will be like locking the suspension out). Hitting the power button is super easy, you just have to stick your hand in the right opening.

My take about the general tone of the conversations was that it was getting high praise in the first impressions realm. Being that it's winter, and cold, and dark, the riders that were there are very experienced overall... this isn't their first rodeo by a long shot and I respect their impressions. About the only thing that came up was starting from a stop one rider (who relies heavily on instantaneous torque for their riding) could get it to 'flick'... the wheel caught up and didn't cutout so it wasn't the end of the world, but it isn't perfect. Other riders couldn't replicate this with the stock pads but most felt that with 'personal' pads it'd probably happen. When moving at a slow jogging pace however, the wheel didn't do this (with the stock pads). The thinking was that the problem is the wheel steps down the voltage for the first few revolutions of the tire if you really lean into it. More time from the top riders will shed more light on how much of an issue this is.

Meanwhile, May can't come soon enough for me!

(oh... the unsprung pedal height is very high, maybe 10 inches? I didn't bring a measuring tape for stand makers but I think you have the entire bottom of the battery cases to work with width wise. I'd be thinking start at 7 inches wide for a stand)

EDIT: the taillight... it turns red when the wheel is moving, "lean signals" like the S18. I didn't notice if it had a brake light function so probably not in this firmware iteration. When you're stopped, the light on these units turned a pale violet, that'll almost certainly be a setting. And if you want to add custom RGB lighting, you'll have the battery cases front and rear. LEDs on the bottom of the battery cases will get smushed by a stand. Headlights probably could do with a little more spill, but we weren't on trails. They're plenty bright and not particularly blinding to oncoming traffic (I didn't mind looking at it straight on as it approached).

EDIT2: I was led to believe that RevRides may still have some pre-orders at the existing price. When those sell out, subsequent orders will be for the revised (higher) KS pricing. I would not know what batch you'd get, or when, but you may still have time to get in line before the price goes up. RevRides is a highly respected reseller 'round these parts.

Edited February 13, 2022 by Tawpie
add blurb about lighting and possible pre-order availability

[Forwardnbak]

With a deposit down I’m really happy with everything I’m seeing. Super glad of the work Kingsong seem to be doing with this release, and the improvement they seem to be making with the production models. 
 

great stuff. 

[Paul A]

S20 on aliexpress for US $2,968.00

Wheel Riders Store

Usual buyer beware, aliexpress sellers, maybe not the best.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003200799857.html

[Paul A]

S20, 100kph.

Insane stair riding ability.

 

[Rawnei]

Could someone that is planning to go hands on with the S20 test reported speed of the wheel compared to GPS see how accurate it is? Thank you 😊🙏

[PourUC]

 

[UniVehje]

Somebody should test it with street or intermediate tires. And also document how easy it is to change the tire. 

[I_Must_Bust]

Was the idea of adjustable pads abandoned at some point or did I just make that up in my head? 

[Tawpie]

4 minutes ago, I_Must_Bust said:

Was the idea of adjustable pads abandoned at some point or did I just make that up in my head? 

KS went with stick-on pads... I'll end up with velcro etc so I can change things up. The boomerang thing in the middle comes right off and you have a flat surface top to bottom for pad mounting.