Kingsong S20/S22 (Confirmed)

[Rollin-on-1]

45 minutes ago, nosamplesplease said:

 

Jack warned us about the lack of waterproofing. "How much sales are going to come from us actually achieving an IP rating?"  Apparently its impossible to attain with the current design. Seals are absent all over.

As pretty as this wheel looks, I'm not buying it until some attempt is made to keep water out. Would be able to ride this about 1 month a year here in the pacific northwest. Its a fair-weather wheel.

It seems like about 5 min with a caulking gun will fix all the waterproof-ness concerns.  It should be pretty decent as is unless you submerge the wheel.  Water isn't very likely to get in under normal riding conditions even if it is raining.

[Planemo]

I'm personally not interested in the S20 as it doesnt have the range for me, but a few observations after seeing the vid (which I dont endorse btw as I dont have allegiences with erides but I do ride with Kev and he's a real nice guy):

1. All fasteners can in general be replaced with stainless at minimal cost (in relation to the euc price).

2. I love the suspension. But as soon as you go to a coil you leave behind all the 'easyness' of an airspring in terms of setup. Most coil springs are sold in 25lb increments if that gives you an idea. But once dialled into the rider...nice.

3. Battery connectors appear to be XT90 spec (with 2x additional control wires) rather than XT60 which is good.

4. Clearly we havent reached the point of where an euc is truly IP rated.

5. I really would like to see better charge connectors than GX16 by now. Jeez, I have these on my ham radios for the mic connections from eons ago. They were never made to carry any real current, only reliable signal levels.

6. I dont like the way that the battery packs dont have any insulation from the alloy cases. For sure the cases are strong, but prolonged vibration against a (thinly heatshrinked) pcb without even a sliver of foam tape? I can only hope.

7. The 'rear handle'? Whats that about? A swingy lump of aluminium? What purpose?

8. I'm not fussed about certain things being plastic. Unless you wrap the wheel up in leather and 3DF theres every chance that some parts will disintegrate even at 20mph if tumbled. This weight of the wheel at the speed it is capable of is likely to cause serious damage. To give some perspective, a well built Japanese £10k motobike can cause £3k damage falling over from a standstill. We cant expect eucs to not crack plastics during a fall.

8. It looks nice and all, and I admire KS as much as Inmotion, both are the nearest I have seen to Ninebot quality. This S20 looks good to me, and nothing bad cant be upgraded. Its not high end MTB or MC quality, but its getting there.

[pkinpdx]

7 hours ago, Tawpie said:

@5Cauac is going to get access (backscroll a page or two), and Eevee's is starting their west coast tour tonight so we should have a few folks from PDX that'll get at least a moment or two on the demo.

Ill be at the PDX demo tonight and will try to bring a tape measure.  Anything other than width people looking for?

[Rollin-on-1]

12 minutes ago, Planemo said:

7. The 'rear handle'? Whats that about? A swingy lump of aluminium? What purpose?

That handle is the lift switch that keeps the wheel from spinning up when you pick it up.  Prior to assembly, they just need to round that sharp edge and heat shrink some plastic on the bracket that the handle hits.

[5Cauac]

5 hours ago, pkinpdx said:

Anything other than width people looking for?

Well, if you want to take over my list, here are the latest ?s.

Member Questions so far:

@Tawpie ....if you lay it down on the trail and pretend it's a mountain trail traversing a slope, how much of a problem is it to tip it back upright? Are the grab points (not counting the soon-to-be-broken front handle/bumper) conducive to getting its bulk back into riding position?

@RagingGrandpa.....Does it beat Sherman in 0-30mph acceleration time, with the same rider?

@That Guy ..... a) how strong is S20's acceleration, b) how stable it is at 25mph+ and c) how well it breaks (can you grab the bumper to break more aggressively? Comparison with Sherman in terms of comfort and performance would be great.

@Gaman .... how easy is it for the lift sensor to disengage by accident?

 @Freeforester and @UniVehje How wide?  Compare the width between the legs with other existing wheels.

@Grimm10 See if you can change the color output of the rear turn/running/brake light to an ALL RED configurement.

@Paul A how exposed/likelihood of serious damage to batteries in event of a crash?  How robust is the casing? 

Edited February 12, 2022 by 5Cauac

[Rollin-on-1]

I wonder if filling the front handle with hot glue and then wrapping it with athletic tape would protect it from shattering without making it so stiff that it transfers too much energy into the battery compartment in a crash.

[pkinpdx]

5 minutes ago, 5Cauac said:

Well, if you want to take over my list, here are the latest ?s.

Member Questions so far:

@Tawpie ....if you lay it down on the trail and pretend it's a mountain trail traversing a slope, how much of a problem is it to tip it back upright? Are the grab points (not counting the soon-to-be-broken front handle/bumper) conducive to getting its bulk back into riding position?

@RagingGrandpa.....Does it beat Sherman in 0-30mph acceleration time, with the same rider?

@That Guy ..... a) how strong is S20's acceleration, b) how stable it is at 25mph+ and c) how well it breaks (can you grab the bumper to break more aggressively? Comparison with Sherman in terms of comfort and performance would be great.

@Gaman .... how easy is it for the lift sensor to disengage by accident?

 @Freeforester and @UniVehje How wide?  Compare the width between the legs with other existing wheels.

@Grimm10 See if you can change the color output of the rear turn/running/brake light to an ALL RED configurement.

Haha, quite a list.  Ill do my best.  No idea if I will get a chance to hook it up to my phone but I do still have the KS app.  If I can ill give it a go.

[Forwardnbak]

I hope the plastics are at least a decent price point to replace. Surely they can’t expect to charge heaps for ongoing replacement parts.

third party is a good option for upgraded parts I hope. 
 

I know you’d be removing all the buffer for bumpers but could you ride it naked? Without all the plastics? 
 

it would be nice if after rumoured 90kph of the v13 they did bump the speed up a little. 

waterproofing even with IP rating on V11 didn’t hold up, I’d rather they don’t claim IP if they know it won’t hold up. 
 

…Kingsong, spare set of plastics in the box??? 

Edited February 12, 2022 by Forwardnbak

[Tawpie]

1 hour ago, 5Cauac said:

Well, if you want to take over my list, here are the latest ?s.

@5Cauac would you mind still trying to do my "get it back upright" test when you get your turn? You know what it's like out there in the single track, and the environment we'll be in after a rapid dismount. And you probably know how much fun it is to drag a wheel back up onto the trail after it decided to go 'down'... (I'm thinking I should carry at least a snatch block and rope, maybe a full blown block and tackle and a lot of rope! And a stake. And a hammer. Tools to fashion a travois perhaps)

Edited February 12, 2022 by Tawpie

[5Cauac]

59 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

would you mind still trying to do my "get it back upright" test when you get your turn?

For you.....Yes. 

1 hour ago, Tawpie said:

And you probably know how much fun it is to drag a wheel back up onto the trail after it decided to go 'down'..

You can always go the tether route ala Chance Hinz. 

[Tawpie]

3 minutes ago, 5Cauac said:

ala Chance Hinz.

Off topic I know, and controversial as well. But I kind of like the look of his tether... wondered what it's made of and how he's attached. You know, a thought experiment... being tied to a 75 lb weight isn't high on my to do list.

[5Cauac]

17 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

Off topic I know, and controversial as well. But I kind of like the look of his tether... wondered what it's made of and how he's attached. You know, a thought experiment... being tied to a 75 lb weight isn't high on my to do list.

It's a bungee type with nylon sleeve. He claims it does not pull you down as much as you would think. The bungee action slows down the decent enough for you to anchor yourself. I believe he attaches at a suspension linkage but exactly were and with what I do not know. I'll be seeing him this Sunday at the Demo so I'll ask.

"And Now Back To Our Regularly Scheduled Program"

[Paul A]

Maybe how exposed/likelihood of serious damage to batteries in event of a crash?  How robust is the casing?  Thanks.

[rolis]

2 hours ago, Paul A said:

Maybe how exposed/likelihood of serious damage to batteries in event of a crash?  How robust is the casing?  Thanks.

My guess is much better than all the wheels with plastic shells.

[rolis]

The s20 testing is getting on a whole other level 😆

Facebook post

[Rawnei]

The talk about IP ratings is kinda funny, KS never said it's IP rated they said they've tried to make it water resistant which I think is true for most part, the motor cable cover that could easily be fixed by them or DIY so while it's a flaw it could easily be improved still.

In contrast Begode is saying that the master is "IP65", I mean come on, show us the certificate? It's a lengthy and costly process to get an IP rating certification, it might be waterproof for all I know but it's a bogus statement.

IP rating is something being thrown around, even my local dealer here in Sweden claims it and his waterproofings doesn't even work to begin with.

[rolis]

from KS

 

King Song S20 Pre-production Cautions:

 

1. Front handle of sample is very crisp, it can only withstand a pressure under 20kg, we will change the raw material in mass production, which will withstand a 90kg impact.

2. Rear handle of sample is a little bit loose even under magnetic action, we will optimize it in mass production.

3. Please routine maintain T-bone slide way(the slide that moves on the rear side of the battery housing), add oil to keep it smooth.

4. Please routinely check the tire pressure.

5. Please routinely check each screw and moving parts.

6. Please check the regulating valve of suspension.

* Maintenance/check time of above activities is dependent on riding situations, and we suggest to maintenance at least once a month

7. Motherboard firmware version and BMS firmware version of sample are outdated, please update both firmware versions once wheels received, wheel may tremble without updating when riding.

8. Charger of sample is commonly used charger, we will change to dedicated charger in mass production.

 

We are gathering feedback in regards to the mass production firmware. We received complaints in previous models that it was hard to maintain the top speed, for example maintaining 50kmh on the 16X. We are interested in exploring the option to allow riders to maintain the 70kmh meaning tilt back will only start at around 73kmh with a less aggressive tilt. The original is 22 degrees tilt back and we are contemplating a lesser degree. How do you feel about a firmware like this?

Any feedback on ride experience is greatly appreciated!

[Paradox]

Don't know who or why this video was made.  This is the same video as the facebook post above.

 

Edited February 12, 2022 by Paradox

[Paul A]

Google translation of the above video description.

Brute force test
Are there any knights who specialize in car crash testing?
Can you help to share
Is such a test to understand the crashworthiness of the S20?
Or what professional test project?

This is beyond the professional scope of the knight store manager
Ask the knights

New Car Wholesale Group Purchase Purchasing Local Distribution
Interested knights welcome private message

[Paul A]

Google translation of the above video youtube channel from the 'about' page.

Hello everyone, I'm Lu Zeguang, the knight's shopkeeper.
In 2019, I left my job to take care of my father. 
I am wise and intelligent. 
In March 2020, I will continue to use the knight shop manager to start a business because of my livelihood. 
I will continue to share the electric unicycles I know about for knights.

Glad to join Ruide Zhiqu in April 2016
During this time I tested related products in the store
Also made some records of my repairs
And my own life-related videos

[Paradox]

2 minutes ago, Paul A said:

Google translation of the above video youtube channel from the 'about' page.

Thanks for the info.  Not something I would do to test the durability of my wheel.  I am guessing this is not a warranty covered repair.  It does show the fragility of the plastics.  To be fair though most wheels would experience damage under these tests.

[Grimm10]

Great to read KingSong is updating firmwares and components when mass production hits.

[The Brahan Seer]

12 hours ago, Forwardnbak said:

I hope the plastics are at least a decent price point to replace.

Judging by the current prices for S18 panels it will be. To replace the S18 2 front panels is <$60AUD inc GST (e-Rides UK Price).

[Paradox]

11 minutes ago, The Brahan Seer said:

Judging by the current prices for S18 panels it will be. To replace the S18 2 front panels is <$60AUD inc GST (e-Rides UK Price).

If this part is cheap to replace I would rather replace a broken part that cushioned the impact than have that force transfered to the wheel.  Battery packs, bms, control board could all be affected.  Like an airbag.  Replace a cheap part upon collision.  Maybe include one or two extra in the box when shipped.

Edited February 12, 2022 by Paradox

[Paul A]

From post by member rolis, KS seems to be planning on using a different material for the front handle (bumper?) to enable it to withstand a 90kg impact.

Not sure what a 90kg impact is though...