Kingsong S20/S22 (Confirmed)

[5Cauac]

I received my slider kit from eWheels yesterday and very excited to install however, I was unfortunately evacuated from my home due to flooding till on or before January 16th.

Funny, the first things that went into my car were my Sherman and S22. 

I don't know if I ever mentioned or if it was evident from posted pics and vids but I own and live in a Travel Trailer on the company's property I work for. It's nice living out in the woods away from the hustle and bustle of the main town however there is a creek that runs through the property and fed by a local Reservoir about a mile and a half up creek. As some may have seen from my latest video how the reservoir was full and slipping over. Needless to say it just couldn't handle anymore water and the creek can't move that much water. As you can see in this video, that creek turned into a raging river and I was forced to move to higher ground. Good new is that what you see was the worst of it and the waters are now receding. 

I hope to make a video of the slider installs but will have to wait till I'm settled back in.

Here are some photos of the sliders for reference. They seem very well made and the tolerances for the "press fitted" wheels were consistent with the exception of two.

(NOTE: Pictured are rollers for just one side)

Shout out to Jason from eWheels for sending these out to me the day they received them PLUS a new left side kickstand arm that was damaged in a fall. They are simply AMAZING! They should win the all time Customer Service Award if such exists. 😎

[kiitick]

I think ewheels customer support is the best. They have always helped out, through user error crashes to failed motherboards. I have a hard time imagining riding without their expertise. 

How does the upgraded slider work compared to stock? I've used the cnc aluminum sliders on my off road wheel, but I'm still using the stock sliders on my second s22 with the street tire and lowered pedals.

[Rawnei]

7 hours ago, kiitick said:

I think ewheels customer support is the best. They have always helped out, through user error crashes to failed motherboards. I have a hard time imagining riding without their expertise. 

How does the upgraded slider work compared to stock? I've used the cnc aluminum sliders on my off road wheel, but I'm still using the stock sliders on my second s22 with the street tire and lowered pedals.

Then you already know how they compare 🙂 will be the same as your CNC sliders.

[Rollin-on-1]

16 hours ago, 5Cauac said:

They seem very well made and the tolerances for the "press fitted" wheels were consistent with the exception of two.

TBH, I was hoping for circlip retainers vs press fit. 

I wonder if the S22 Pro will use the same ones?

[fbhb]

21 minutes ago, Rollin-on-1 said:

I wonder if the S22 Pro will use the same ones?

The S22 Pro will be using a slightly different version that has the rollers retained via screws, as seen in "Upgrade Version 2.0" below. This version is also stated to be wider and needing the wider channels the S22 Pro reportedly has to accommodate them.

Version 1.0 is the version compatible with the existing/original S22 as shown by @5Cauac's photos, now anodized black for final release.

 

 

Edited January 13, 2023 by fbhb

[wstuart]

I heard the s22 pro also has upgraded mosfets and motor.  Has this improved the low end torque?  I wanna get this wheel but I don't want it to cut out on me when going up a hill...... my riding weight is 240lbs. 

[litewave]

37 minutes ago, wstuart said:

I heard the s22 pro also has upgraded mosfets and motor.  Has this improved the low end torque?  I wanna get this wheel but I don't want it to cut out on me when going up a hill...... my riding weight is 240lbs. 

Chooch's latest video claims that the mosfets are now "150 volts". There are other mentions of upgraded mosfets on the forum and web. 

However, I have received communications from two resellers that the control boards are the same, and others have as well. This information came directly from KS. 

I guess we won't know for sure until someone starts posting high-res photos of the boards and components.

Edited January 13, 2023 by litewave

[Rawnei]

36 minutes ago, wstuart said:

I heard the s22 pro also has upgraded mosfets and motor.  Has this improved the low end torque?  I wanna get this wheel but I don't want it to cut out on me when going up a hill...... my riding weight is 240lbs. 

Mosfets and board is the same, motor is from another manufacturer (HH), it's supposed to run a bit cooler, KS says 4000w but that's a number taken out of thin air and doesn't even matter since controller is the same.

Why do you think the wheel would cut out going up a hill? If you mean a very long steep hill and overheating, that should happen less likely with HH motor.

[Paul g]

Am I the only one who thinks KingSong claims are pure bulls!tt?? They claim the S20/22 had 3,300W motor while real life tests show the Sherman S, which has a motor of 3,000W, has visibly more torque, while speed is about the same in both. 

Edited January 13, 2023 by Paul g

[novazeus]

i’m finding that true with all manufacturers overstating their specs.

be harder to find a company that actually over performs their specs, like the 1999 chevrolet camaro ss claimed 320hp at the crank, but actually produced 330 and up!

maybe the last one.

this isn’t just china, this is all. solar is probably the worse.

[Paul g]

5 minutes ago, novazeus said:

i’m finding that true with all manufacturers overstating their specs.

be harder to find a company that actually over performs their specs, like the 1999 chevrolet camaro ss claimed 320hp at the crank, but actually produced 330 and up!

maybe the last one.

this isn’t just china, this is all. solar is probably the worse.

I would not mind if they would understate 😂

[chanman]

3 hours ago, Paul g said:

They claim the S20/22 had 3,300W motor

A 3300W rated motor just means that the motor won't burn up if you continuously apply 3300W to it. Actual torque and speed output is determined by how you drive it.

[novazeus]

kinda proud, this is the best yet.

i could live with this i think.

might save money on lube buying the slider kit.

 

[Paul g]

23 minutes ago, chanman said:

A 3300W rated motor just means that the motor won't burn up if you continuously apply 3300W to it. Actual torque and speed output is determined by how you drive it.

Well, the devil is in the details, right?

[redfoxdude]

1 hour ago, chanman said:

A 3300W rated motor just means that the motor won't burn up if you continuously apply 3300W to it. Actual torque and speed output is determined by how you drive it.

This. Additionally the Kv, magnet specs (size, strength) and the air gap all have an impact on the motor's characteristics (torque vs current, power, or speed, efficiency vs torque, speed, power, etc). Fancier motor control can also unlock more performance from a given motor. It would be better if manufacturers gave both power and torque ratings. 🤷‍♂️

Definitely curious to see what the actual changes are to the new "4000W" motor, though I wouldn't be surprised if it is mainly improvements to thermal management, but alas, looking forward to a teardown. 

Edited January 13, 2023 by redfoxdude

[Paul g]

31 minutes ago, redfoxdude said:

This. Additionally the Kv, magnet specs (size, strength) and the air gap all have an impact on the motor's characteristics (torque vs current, power, or speed, efficiency vs torque, speed, power, etc). Fancier motor control can also unlock more performance from a given motor. It would be better if manufacturers gave both power and torque ratings. 🤷‍♂️

Definitely curious to see what the actual changes are to the new "4000W" motor, though I wouldn't be surprised if it is mainly improvements to thermal management, but alas, looking forward to a teardown. 

       Just as the manufacturers specify the max speed together with the nominal and peak Wattage, they should also specify the nominal and peak torque.  

       I don’t care how much W the motor “could have” if it can’t have it on that EUC because of the limits of the board. In my opinion the KingSong conflates the S20/22 torque because this should’ve been a performance torque wheel and it wasn’t. The gap was filled with lies.

Edited January 13, 2023 by Paul g

[level9]

18 minutes ago, Paul g said:

       Just as the manufacturers specify the max speed together with the nominal and peak Wattage, they should also specify the nominal and peak torque.  

       I don’t care how much W the motor “could have” if it can’t have it on that EUC because of the limits of the board. In my opinion the KingSong conflates the S20/22 torque because this should’ve been a performance torque wheel and it wasn’t. The gap was filled with lies.

In my experience the wheel performs just fine and according to spec. Just not with the stock pads/pedal positioning which clobbers the torque - that was their fail.

Edited January 13, 2023 by level9

[Paul g]

15 minutes ago, level9 said:

In my experience the wheel performs just fine and according to spec

In comparison to what? Did your experience included measurements?

Edited January 13, 2023 by Paul g

[onkeldanuel]

15 hours ago, level9 said:

In my experience the wheel performs just fine and according to spec. Just not with the stock pads/pedal positioning which clobbers the torque - that was their fail.

Same opinion, especially with fw-improvements , pedals in forward Position and good pads (kinetic or grizzla)....its a really good all around wheel...with best suspension (together with Sherman S) available today (with cnc-sliders of course)

Edited January 14, 2023 by onkeldanuel

[novazeus]

i grew a pair yesterday and tried the stock spiked pedals with a different set of van's boots. not the waffle sole normally on van's. i also moved the pedals lower and forward. much better. 

but i did do a horizontal dismount to save me and the wheel. the sun is still brutal with sunglasses on and i lost my line at my 90 degree curve and ran off the shoulder. 

nbd until i ran into whatever these clumps of grass are called, and i know from pasture riding they can pull u to the ground, so i bailed. nbd, got back on and found my comfy feet position. 

if i had been in the pasture, i would have taken a chance. more concerned about the wheel than me.

it's not how ur practice begins, it's how u finish.

 

Edited January 16, 2023 by novazeus

[novazeus]

On 1/10/2023 at 8:24 PM, novazeus said:

does urs read soc 100%, 

vehicle firmware version 2.25 

bms firmware version 2.08

i'll try again. 

is nobody using king song software? 

i asked what anybody else was running, and for a week now, crickets!

it's not hard to look and see.

[OldFartRides]

EUC World. 

[Tawpie]

1 hour ago, novazeus said:

i'll try again. 

is nobody using king song software? 

i asked what anybody else was running, and for a week now, crickets!

it's not hard to look and see.

I mostly use EUCWorld to log rides, but I use the KS app to check the batteries. I'm on v2.25 mainboard, 2.15 BMS.

You do need to update your BMS firmware, you're quite a ways behind. 2.15 or 2.16 is where you need to be... they changed something so that it actually performs top balancing of the pack now whereas before it kinda didn't balance for the most part. Mine still doesn't "need" balancing, but I keep a close eye on the individual cell voltages and their differences.

[Paul A]

Is the S22 suspension better than the Sherman S, now with the CNC rollers?

No more constant maintenance?

 

Lighter weight and very adequate battery of S22, seems comparatively better choice than SS.

[Rawnei]

2 hours ago, Paul A said:

Is the S22 suspension better than the Sherman S, now with the CNC rollers?

No more constant maintenance?

 

Lighter weight and very adequate battery of S22, seems comparatively better choice than SS.

Depends on use case and what you need, for range SS is a great choice because more batteries of course, for me personally I don't need that much range 2200Wh is enough for my rides and weight being a big factor for me I prefer having a lighter more agile wheel to do fun stuff on (not to mention carrying it up to my apartment, 40kg Shermax was already heavy).

I'll try to compare the two suspension systems when local riders get their SS but one place where S22 suspension shines is jumping and drops where it just soaks up the impact like nothing, not sure I wanna go all in and do that on someone else's wheel. 😅 Just riding on uneven surface is not great for comparison as just having any suspension there makes a big difference. Then it also comes down to tuning, you can change spring on the S22 to something much lighter and make it super cushy on uneven terrain but then it won't be as great for bigger things, I have 600lb spring on mine currently and it's feels good in all scenarios.