EUC on the highway videos

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

59 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

I dont know if you're quoting me or quoting me quoting shellac.

ups...my fault...now it´s corrected

[Darrell Wesh]

I don’t even get why riding on highways is dangerous. It’s far safer then riding in the city with bikers that dart everywhere, multiple lanes of traffic, cars coming from all angles etc. 
On the highway it’s just a straight line with no lights, no turns, no shops and civilians on the side for distractions. As long as you’re keeping up there’s no problem. 

[Ben Kim]

38 minutes ago, Darrell Wesh said:

I don’t even get why riding on highways is dangerous. It’s far safer then riding in the city with bikers that dart everywhere, multiple lanes of traffic, cars coming from all angles etc. 
On the highway it’s just a straight line with no lights, no turns, no shops and civilians on the side for distractions. As long as you’re keeping up there’s no problem. 

Most of these EUC nannies probably haven’t even gone faster than 20 mph... Going fast and having fun isn’t for everyone! 

[gon2fast]

This just took an interesting turn.  Don't let me stop anyone from playing in freeway traffic, but trying to justify it for the masses is far too much for me.

 

Good luck and be safe

[redsnapper]

Very hard to legislate good judgement (and even that is subjective)! Natural selection will take care of people doing very stupid things and a legion of ambulance chasing lawyers will be there to litigate if their stupidity harms others! In a free society people are allowed to make mistakes then bear the consequences.  IMO there are more important matters to be worried about than wheelers on the highway. @shellac is causing some discussion/reflection though and that can`t be bad! 

Edited October 6, 2020 by amelanso

[redsnapper]

6 hours ago, Ben Kim said:

Most of these EUC nannies probably haven’t even gone faster than 20 mph... Going fast and having fun isn’t for everyone! 

Let us not assume that people who ride conservatively are not having fun. Anyone on an EUC at any speed is likely having fun! To each their own on how to enjoy wheeling...

[shellac]

On 10/5/2020 at 1:20 AM, ShanesPlanet said:

I haven't even bothered to watch the video, that is how little it bothers me. I never said what I like or condone, you are confusing the issue. Yes, reporting something that has no direct bearing on you, is 'acting like a cop'. You are attempting to help police the video and instill your decision that it is dangerous. Even fursther, you think that controlling what is passed around in social media, is something we even need to do. Censorship based on personal opinion of what is considered dangerous. Its a midset and it scares me more than murder statistics in Chicago. So, is my 2-lane not quite dangerous enough to warrant censorship? Who gets to decide? Oh that's right, YOU get to decide. How is the guy calling the cops while passing me in his car, much different than reporting a video you don't deem appropriately safe? Where are these imaginary lines drawn? Then lets toss the word of the year in 'covid'.  Prejudice much? I can see how it must be just so damn black and white isnt it? No we are not going to agree. I am as far from wanting to police things that dont concern me, as I can possibly be. I dont give a shit if some guy in NYC decides to drive like an asshole. I dont give a shit if everyone thinks its MY civic duty to monitor and police the internet. I'm a big boy, I can make my own decisions. Youtube does NOT think for me, nor do the guys in NYC. Justify it how you wish, but reporting something rather than walking away or changing the channel, is policing at its finest. Maybe we SHOULD police things like Rape and Murder, but do we really need to be policing things in media form?

Social media platforms allow for some community self-policing, and the point of what I'm suggesting here is to avoid actual legislation in the future by policing ourselves. I want no actual legislation (as @amelanso suggests) on what we do, not more. I don't want to deal with cops any more than anyone else.

We probably have a fundamental disagreement here about what you call censorship. I believe in free speech, but I'm not a free speech absolutist. If a large majority of people decide that they don't want to see, for example, ISIS beheading videos on a platform, and want to report those to get them pulled off I think its fine. Those videos would still be available, just harder to find, so I wouldn't consider it full on censorship. Likewise if yt pulled the highway video and you really wanted to see it, all you'd have to do is hop on this forum or the nyc telegram group. I don't think real 100% effective censorship is possible on the internet, and that's a good thing. Obviously I'm using an extreme example here to make a point, the highway video is not ISIS.

I'm not sure what covid has to do with prejudice. I'm just making an analogy. Me saying that "my riding on the highway only endangers myself and nobody else", is similar to what anti-maskers say about not wearing a mask. Is it a cheap shot because covid is more clearly dangerous? Maybe so.

I see a lot of criticism on here about oh you're not from nyc, you wouldn't get it. Or maybe you're old or don't like to go fast. I'm sorry but that's called bringing the weak shit. Even if I'm an 95 year old filling my diaper on an Iotatrax/Onewheel pint in the Florida Villages you should engage with someone's arguments. Attacking the person doesn't really prove anything.

(For the record, I lived in NYC for a decade before moving, and the FDR I remember is 40 mph but few respect that and it is a cluster with mimimal regard for lanes. Also I do like to go fast and hopefully that won't be my undoing.)

I feel like I've kind of said my piece on the matter. It's interesting to know people's opinions. Clearly there is a contingent that's fine with highway riding, or think at least it's better not to care what other people do. I get that and I guess my opinion is in the minority here. Ultimately, I'd rather just talk about wheels and not these kinds of things. This is more engagement on the subject than I was planning, though I suppose I should have expected I was kicking a hornet's nest, lol.

Love and peace yall

[shellac]

Also If you guys want me to hide/delete this thread I'm happy to. Wasn't trying to offend anyone and like I said, I'd rather just talk about wheels than these side issues.

[.....]

3 hours ago, shellac said:

Social media platforms allow for some community self-policing, and the point of what I'm suggesting here is to avoid actual legislation in the future by policing ourselves. I want no actual legislation (as @amelanso suggests) on what we do, not more. I don't want to deal with cops any more than anyone else.

 

police yourself by changing the channel. You are trying to police others when you try to get it removed. Its a bullshit argument to say that it isnt policing and stomping on freedom of speech, because I can go find the information elsewhere.  You arent going to convince me that just a  'little bit' of policing isnt the same as policing.

It seems the media has brainwashed far too many people. Why the fuck is covid mentioned in every damn argument? Buzz word of the year I guess, and it's easy to see who's being saturated by the content of it, to the point they cant avoid using it as an example. Im sick of the news, its not news. Im sick of the politicians, they are all boldy lying. Im sick of people claiming that everything I do, needs monitored to make sure it isnt dangerous or politically incorrect. The amount of edits on my videos is a direct relationship to how nervous it makes me. What happens if I say something and someone finds it so offensive that I get reported and become a part of THAT list? How long until Im on the 'dangerous activities' list? When will my lawsuit come, because someone blames me for THEIR gear choices and gets hit by a bus? It is all related to the same thing as we are discussing now. My argument is that I'm an idiot, and youre are also an idiot if you allow me negatively influence you. Being idiots, should absolve everyone but ourselves of liability.

This thread does offend me, but why does that matter at all? I'm offended all the damn time, its my problem, noone else's. It offends me when people (me included) can't ignore what they don't like. It offends me that Im offended. I do like to rant tho, and Im pretty sure thats offensive as well.

Oddly, i like to talk about wheels also. Not much left to say tho, but plenty left to ride..for now.

Edited October 6, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[redsnapper]

One thing that everyone shares on this forum is a fascination and love for all things EUC. So let`s for argument`s sake say that it is our common thread. Very likely that people of all imaginable religio-socio-political persuasions are represented. We're in a time where tribalism has lead to an alarming increase in ''groupthink'' - I stick with my like-minded tribe and you stick with yours and never the twain shall meet.  IMO the thoughtful examination of ideas where diverse opinions are explored respectfully (without descending into the typical trash talk too often seen online) is much needed medicine. We don`t really know one another but we do know that we love wheeling - how bout we remember that when we are discussing the manifold ideas that spring forth from this amazing forum. NB - I am not saying that people have raged on @shellac 's post (ok maybe just a little) - but the commons of ideas is enhanced when we all feel we can contribute our thoughts in a relative safespace (violins now rising dramatically into crescendo - closeup of a young child with a single tear streaming down its cheek then superimposed slowmo of bright red balloons being released into the air along with a gaggle of doves -  fade to white) ...

 

Edited October 6, 2020 by amelanso

[mploy1515]

On 10/4/2020 at 7:55 PM, shellac said:

because it’s some stupid shit to do. it’s illegal, looks bad on EUC riders, and is actually dangerous. 

look, i mean do what you want but i’m surprised “why” is even a question. by youtube keeping these up it encourages more people to do the same for the social media feedback. 

Agreed.

My macro-view on this as a whole -- is don't ruin it for everyone else. Simple as that.

This is such a young hobby / sport, any freeway riders are only begging for government intervention and attention.

Don't be the EUC equivalent of why we have to drink beer out of plastic cups at sporting events like we're 5 years old.

Think, people.

[GothamMike]

Someone tired riding the FDR Parkway, broke some ribs.

[Midlife Cricycle]

1000% agree Shellac. The whole 'live and let live'/freedom argument assumes that we are operating in a bubble, when in reality we are riding super-powered, dangerous weapons, often illegally (or at least in a legal grey area) around innocent pedestrians who have little to no idea what an EUC is and when governments around the world are approaching the question of what to do with PEVs. If, as amelanso so eloquently put it above, we are all united in our passion for EUCs and want them to be around for a long time, we ALL need to be accountable for our actions and recognise that we are ambassadors for this new sport. Those riders who promote themselves through YT and other forums behaving recklessly (insufficient safety gear, high-speed riding past pedestrians, getting into fight fights with drivers (as the rider in the highway video has done) can't simply expect the rest of the community to shower them with praise. They have to be prepared for some negative feedback as well and should take it in the spirit in which it was intended: to help this sport reach the mainstream. 

[mploy1515]

10 hours ago, Midlife Cricycle said:

1000% agree Shellac. The whole 'live and let live'/freedom argument assumes that we are operating in a bubble, when in reality we are riding super-powered, dangerous weapons, often illegally (or at least in a legal grey area) around innocent pedestrians who have little to no idea what an EUC is and when governments around the world are approaching the question of what to do with PEVs. If, as amelanso so eloquently put it above, we are all united in our passion for EUCs and want them to be around for a long time, we ALL need to be accountable for our actions and recognise that we are ambassadors for this new sport. Those riders who promote themselves through YT and other forums behaving recklessly (insufficient safety gear, high-speed riding past pedestrians, getting into fight fights with drivers (as the rider in the highway video has done) can't simply expect the rest of the community to shower them with praise. They have to be prepared for some negative feedback as well and should take it in the spirit in which it was intended: to help this sport reach the mainstream. 

Yeah -- there's zero debate for me on this. "Freedom / individual rights" argument is weak, and yes -- selfish and implies you're operating in a bubble. I don't get some of the backlash OP has gotten on this, just smh.

[null]

1 hour ago, mploy1515 said:

Yeah -- there's zero debate for me on this. "Freedom / individual rights" argument is weak, and yes -- selfish and implies you're operating in a bubble. I don't get some of the backlash OP has gotten on this, just smh.

 No debate: you are wrong  

Edited October 7, 2020 by null

[mike_bike_kite]

I agree with @shellacthat posting videos of yourself doing stupid things on EUC's just reinforces the publics viewpoint that EUCs are dangerous and should be banned. If there were more videos of people just commuting to work or going out for a coffee then the public would start to wonder why they haven't got one. Obviously if your commute involves doing 30mph through a park then it doesn't help. It would be nice if youtube videos didn't encourage others but sadly they do. U-stride accidentally got onto the FDR just a few months back and posted a video. Now we get a bunch of folks all riding the same freeway. I think one fell off recently while doing this. It won't be long before someone kills themselves.

Whether we organise to report videos might be slightly more difficult to agree with.

[Darrell Wesh]

21 minutes ago, mike_bike_kite said:

If there were more videos of people just commuting to work or going out for a coffee then the public would start to wonder why they haven't got one.

Uhh there a literally tons of those. And guess what ? No one watches them.
 

Danger sells/gets viewers.

[mike_bike_kite]

7 minutes ago, Darrell Wesh said:

Danger sells/gets viewers.

I agree that it gets viewers but you have to decide what message you're sending out to people. And does danger actually sell? I see far more electric cars, electric bicycles and electric scooters than I do EUCs. I think I've only seen 4 outside of meet ups and I live in a city of 9 million.

[Darrell Wesh]

1 hour ago, mike_bike_kite said:

see far more electric cars, electric bicycles and electric scooters than I do EUCs. I think I've only seen 4 outside of meet ups and I live in a city of 9 million.

Very unfair comparison considering cars are synonymous with transportation as is bicycles.

And Scooters are considered dangerous

[PLEASE_DELETE]

Deleted.

Edited March 18 by PLEASE_DELETE

[GoGeorgeGo]

On 10/4/2020 at 11:06 PM, Mike Sacristan said:

I tried googling and doing some research when the clip came out and also recently.
I have not been able to find anything about it being illegal.

Could you help us out a bit?

I'm sure most motorcycle and car videos could be reported in the same way. And those are definitely vehicles I would love to see 

The way i see it is riding at high speed in road ways clearly shows that people have different use cases for these machines.

Some people just want a bicycle, something to ride offroad on bike paths on the sidewalk. In their mind riding in the road is unsafe/illegal. 

Common sense says riding a motorized vehicle at 40 mph+ on the roadway requires the driver pay insurance and register their vehicles. It is ONLY reckless behavior because these machines are to dinky to function in this use case.

To my eyes, clearly there is a segment of riders who see these machines more like motorcycles, and would be willing to spend a lot nore than 3000$ if these companies actually delivered a product worth riding on the highway.  

So you may see the video as recjless and dangerous, i see it as guys showing the companys their is still a lot of room for growfh with these machines.

If you are registered and insured, i dont care if you want to ride on the highway or not.  Its not for me, but neither are motorcycles.  But clearly people want these EUC to act more like motorcycles

Laws have not caught up to the machine yet, just give it time im sure you will need it registered and insured to ride in roadways legally eventually

Edited October 8, 2020 by GoGeorgeGo

[.....]

28 minutes ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

The way i see it is riding at high speed in road ways clearly shows that people have different use cases for these machines.

Some people just want a bicycle, something to ride offroad on bike paths on the sidewalk. In their mind riding in the road is unsafe/illegal. 

Common sense says riding a motorized vehicle at 40 mph+ on the roadway requires the driver pay insurance and register their vehicles. It is ONLY reckless behavior because these machines are to dinky to function in this use case.

To my eyes, clearly there is a segment of riders who see these machines more like motorcycles, and would be willing to spend a lot nore than 3000$ if these companies actually delivered a product worth riding on the highway.  

So you may see the video as recjless and dangerous, i see it as guys showing the companys their is still a lot of room for growfh with these machines.

If you are registered and insured, i dont care if you want to ride on the highway or not.  Its not for me, but neither are motorcycles.  But clearly people want these EUC to act more like motorcycles

Laws have not caught up to the machine yet, just give it time im sure you will need it registered and insured to ride in roadways legally eventually

totally on point! I have 3 wheels and each plays its own role. The mten is my play toy and I ride it around slowly and its viewed much less like a motorized vehicle (in my useage). My 18L is more like the bicycle mentality. I dont figure its up to the task to safely keep up with highway traffic at all. My sherman is viewed more as a motorcycle to me( I have a motorcycle as well).  Part of the appeal of the euc is the LACK of legislation on it. For now, I get to enjoy the wheels as I feel fit and I get to be the last word in what i consider safe and responsible. IF and WHEN euc's become treated like cars and I have to insure/register them, I will likely abandon the activity or become an outlaw. Just as flying a bedsheet with lawnmower (paramotor), some of us enjoy being able to use them without all that legal mumbo jumbo. I call it, enjoying the sport while its still too new to be ruined by politics. The end of the 'wild west' era will come as it always does. People will use things how they wish and some people have different thresholds of what risks they will take.  We all know how the euc will eventually be banned or hit by laws. I dont think that reporting things will make the inevitable happen any later. I also don't think that relying on everyone to be 'ambassadors' is a good idea either. Me, Im milking it for waht i can, while I can. Call me irresponsible, call me dangrous, but one thing is for certain.. I am living like I choose to, and if my actions cause my own demise, Im good with that. I'd rather NOT endanger others, but I also realize that worrying exclusively about my safety and the safety of others, impedes my lifestyle. To be fair, most people unknowingly and uneccassarily endanger others by their own poor habits behind the wheel of a car or even while cell phone walking. When we give up freedoms for safety, we get neither.

Edited October 8, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[Midlife Cricycle]

Some great points being made by everyone to, dare I say, the biggest issue facing EUCs at the moment. We get all excited about the bells and whistles, the speed and the suspension, and we forget that these things could be legislated into oblivion at any time. I'm about to dosh out a few thousand on 2, maybe 3 wheels for myself, my wife and son and I'm worried that it'll all go down the toilet because some over-eager youtuber kills some kid in the pursuit of likes and it all blows up. I'm being melodramatic, sure, but really, with the speed these things go, the weight (check out the weight of the gotway ex!) and the build quality, it's a matter of time until this happens.

A question I've got is: what is the ideal situation for EUCs in the next, say, 3-5 years? If you had to come up with laws that had to balance the freedom of riders and the safety of other road users, where do you draw the line? Caps on speed? Limit to bike paths only? Or maybe have different classes - Class A wheels are slower and can ride on footpaths, Class B are built for roads, freeways, etc and have to stay off footpaths, bikepaths. Thoughts? Too complicated?

 

[mike_bike_kite]

3 minutes ago, Midlife Cricycle said:

I'm about to dosh out a few thousand on 2, maybe 3 wheels for myself, my wife and son and I'm worried that it'll all go down the toilet because some over-eager youtuber kills some kid in the pursuit of likes and it all blows up. I'm being melodramatic, sure, but really, with the speed these things go, the weight (check out the weight of the gotway ex!) and the build quality, it's a matter of time until this happens.

I have the same issue. I'd quite like a more upmarket wheel but there's no way I'm spending decent money on something that could be confiscated by the police. 

3 minutes ago, Midlife Cricycle said:

A question I've got is: what is the ideal situation for EUCs in the next, say, 3-5 years? If you had to come up with laws that had to balance the freedom of riders and the safety of other road users, where do you draw the line? Caps on speed? Limit to bike paths only? Or maybe have different classes - Class A wheels are slower and can ride on footpaths, Class B are built for roads, freeways, etc and have to stay off footpaths, bikepaths. Thoughts? Too complicated?

Your question has been covered a few times here and always gets varied answers. My preference is for low speed EUCs (<=20mph) to be just treated as bicycles and for high speed wheels to require some sort of driving license, insurance, decent lighting and compulsory protective gear for the rider. I'd also say these wheels should be allowed anywhere a moped can go. Obviously there are lots of grey areas like what if you limit the top speed of your Sherman to 20mph or should high powered EUCs be allowed on bike paths or through the park - most of us would say yes because we're considerate riders and EUCs are green but then you see youtube videos where some riders are going at top speed past children in the park. Go figure.

[redsnapper]

A guy on a bicycle traveling at 40kph is as dangerous to others as someone on an EUC doing 40kph. So I would hope EUC is categorized like a bike. But sadly idiotic technocrats looking for stuff to legislate will likely make a mess of things. Dunno how it is for others but police hv no issue with EUCs where I live and there is no pev specific bylaw. So I rather stay off the radar cuz the laws they may come up with could be highly restrictive...

Edited October 8, 2020 by amelanso