How to ride an electric unicycle - understanding the dynamics

[Rotem Yakir]

Thanks for the replies.

Another question I have is how slow can you go with the EUC after becoming  comfortable with it?

[Retrovertigo]

Hmmm....I only own the one wheel, but I'm basing my experiences with motorcycles as well. I have owned a lot of bikes over the years, and also ridden a lot of scooters with much smaller wheels. Obviously I can hop from one to the other as the necessary skillset is primarily the same.

 But I do know that there is a difference between how you ride a "proper" bike, and how you ride a scooter, which feels much more "jittery" because of the smaller wheels. I certainly couldn't do half the things on a small scooter than I could on a full sized bike. Scooters feel twitchy and unstable at times, unlike a bike with larger wheels which always feels much more stable. Thanks largely to the centrifugal forces created by much larger wheels with their greater mass. 

I own a Z10 at the moment, and you only have to read the comments from people who have ridden a Z10 and other wheels to see that it is almost universally accepted that the Z10 requires a different technique to ride. So although I can only imagine, there must be fairly noticeable differences between a 10 inch wheel and an 18 inch one?

[Mono]

24 minutes ago, Retrovertigo said:

I own a Z10 at the moment, and you only have to read the comments from people who have ridden a Z10 and other wheels to see that it is almost universally accepted that the Z10 requires a different technique to ride.

The main reason for the difference is IMHO the width of the tire. It's also the feature separating the Z6-10 from all other common wheels.

[mrelwood]

17 hours ago, Senior Coffee said:

I'm not saying you won't notice the difference from one to the next, in fact I'm agreeing with you, that's exactly what you'll notice.

Turning on one unicycle is the same as turning on any other unicycle regardless of size.  The same skills apply.

I hear you. And I disagree.

 

Quote

Another question I have is how slow can you go with the EUC after becoming  comfortable with it?

Riding slow is an advanced skill that you can start to practice after you’ve become somewhat comfortable with riding in general. After learning the skill, you can ride at a regular walking speed, or even a bit slower. A wider tire makes it easier to ride slow, although here also with a 14” wheel you can easilly twist-turn (at the hips) to correct the balance, while a 18” wheel requires tilt-turning. Twisting with a 18” wheel would require a lot of physical effort making it an inferior technique for slow-riding large wheels.

Edited September 22, 2019 by mrelwood

[M640x]

So as I'm still learning, I wanted to pose a question or two to the mass of experienced and maybe not so experienced riders out there.  I'll try not to take to long in getting to the question/s.    For reference, I have an mten3 and a 14S.  I have read as much on this forum as possible, the threads about learning the dynamics, and others etc., watched vids and also been practicing on the wheels as much as life allows.

I love my mten3 and it's an absolute joy to ride.  My 14S is collecting dust now.  I've been struggling with going straight on the 14S since I started.  Since the first time I stepped on an EUC most of it has been spent on the 14S.  Starting/stopping are great.  Turning is easy.  Picked those up the first day.  Going straight beyond 40 feet, not happening even after more than 2 weeks of everyday practice and 35 miles.  Within 5 minutes of being on the mten3 I could go straight as far as I wanted.  In fact I ride in like I've ridden it every day for 6 months. 

Like everyone, when I ride I make adjustments to stay upright.  In my short experience with the mten3, the adjustments whatever type they are, obviously take much less effort because of the reduced wheel size and weight.  For instance to turn I hold everything still from the hips down and just lean a little from the hips up, it works perfectly.  The amount of lean determines the tightness of the turn I make.  For going straight I lean forward of course and my adjustments are reduced to simply tilting my head and sometimes my shoulders to keep me sorted.  I'm sure there's swivel in there but unnoticeable to me because of the subtleness of it.  It works perfectly and it makes riding the mten3 a breeze.

When getting on my 14" wheel, do the same techniques apply?  Just amplified?  Do I keep from the waist down relatively still, swivel into the fall and lean from the waist up mostly towards the direction I want to go?  It's exactly what I do on the mten and it works perfectly.  I do know and readily admit I need more time and miles in on the 14.  It's just that it's damn hard to get the miles in when I can't go straight beyond 40 feet.  2 weeks on the 14S = 35 miles.  2 days on the mten3 = 18 miles.  See the difference?  lol 

I have posted this before and I'd like to try something different than the "have you tried this or that" questions.  While the tips may be great I can't understand the whole process that way.  Tell me how to do something from A to Z and I'm your huckleberry.   Also trying to diagnose what I'm doing or not doing is difficult because, well I'm a beginner and truth be told I don't know what I'm doing yet lol.

If possible, could someone explain your process of riding straight and each thing that you do to stay upright.  I can start/stop and turn all day long so none of that info needs to be included unless you think it's relevant in some way.  Every small detail matters.  This is where it's difficult for a seasoned rider because it's all been internalized and is automatic but if you're able to I think It may help me and other new people in our process of learning.  Especially me because besides needing more miles and time in, I think I'm missing something in the ingredients, especially when I can start/stop and turn like a somewhat seasoned rider but can't keep the thing upright when going straight.  Thank you in advance.

Edited September 23, 2019 by Senior Coffee

[Mono]

I still believe that not ceasing to make correcting steering swivels (with ever so slightly bent knees) is the secret to go straight. The mechanics are not that difficult. If you keep the wheel exactly straight without feedback, the CoG of the rider will by chance start to be laterally displaced to one side or the other. This is probably what leads to you to tilt the wheel and make a turn. In order to keep the straight line the wheel has to be steered under and beyond the CoG in the direction of where the lateral displacement took place.

BTW, there is no specific body posture (or head position) one needs to abide by to go straight or make a turn. I can make a left turn with my hips straight or turning left or turning right. I can make a left turn with my shoulders straight or turning left or turning right. It's all possible and by now natural to me. Only in the beginning some positions seem more natural than others and there is nothing wrong to use those who feel more natural.

Edited September 23, 2019 by Mono

[M640x]

Thank you.  Funny thing about the swivels.  I was 2 weeks into riding and just tried them one day by accident.  I figured it couldn't hurt since I wasn't getting anywhere with everything else I had tried.  It helped a good bit.  In fact I said to myself "Why didn't anyone mention this in the beginner threads".  They had.  I found out that I had missed that info in my research.   I tried them for a couple minutes on the 14 then my mten3 got delivered and I haven't touched the 14 since.  It may be the only ingredient missing on the 14 and I simply need to spend more time on it.  Swivels aren't needed as much in corners and may be why I could turn before going straight.  Before learning about swivels very recently, in straights I tried to manhandle (foothandle) the wheel right and left similar to what I did in corners to sort it out and that's a lot of work and obviously wasn't working.  I'll keep at it.

Edited September 23, 2019 by Senior Coffee

[Tazarinho]

31 minutes ago, Senior Coffee said:

If possible, could someone explain your process of riding straight and each thing that you do to stay upright.  I can start/stop and turn all day long so none of that info needs to be included unless you think it's relevant in some way.  Every small detail matters.  This is where it's difficult for a seasoned rider because it's all been internalized and is automatic but if you're able to I think It may help me and other new people in our process of learning.  Especially me because besides needing more miles and time in, I think I'm missing something in the ingredients, especially when I can start/stop and turn like a somewhat seasoned rider but can't keep the thing upright when going straight.  Thank you in advance

Not sure I can help here, as for me the process was exactly the other way around. I could go straight first, for a meter, then twenty, then two-hundred. Learning to turn came after. Mounting without holding on to something came even later.

[Mono]

10 minutes ago, Senior Coffee said:

I said to myself "Why didn't anyone mention this in the beginner threads".  They had.  I found out that I had missed that info in my research.  

Right, it's by now quite challenging to filter the important information from the 680 posts in this thread.

[M640x]

4 minutes ago, Tazarinho said:

Not sure I can help here, as for me the process was exactly the other way around. I could go straight first, for a meter, then twenty, then two-hundred. Learning to turn came after. Mounting without holding on to something came even later.

You're not the first person to mention that.  In fact from what I'm gathering most can go straight first.  That's why I believe beyond just needing more time in I missed something in the ingredients as far as going straight.

[Retrovertigo]

4 minutes ago, Senior Coffee said:

You're not the first person to mention that.  In fact from what I'm gathering most can go straight first.  That's why I believe beyond just needing more time in I missed something in the ingredients as far as going straight.

Can you get somebody to film you, just to make sure you aren't subconsciously leaning to one side or the other slightly? I have one leg quite a bit shorter than the other following a motorcycle accident, and I can feel myself adjusting pressure on the footplates to compensate. 

[Mono]

11 minutes ago, Senior Coffee said:

You're not the first person to mention that.  In fact from what I'm gathering most can go straight first.  That's why I believe beyond just needing more time in I missed something in the ingredients as far as going straight.

I can remember that even after several months and hundreds of miles I once or twice just fell off to the side out of the blue, like I had for a few second completely forgotten how to go straight. It was a somewhat scary experience, reminding me that going rather slower than faster is rarely a bad idea and that I hadn't internalized some important things yet.
 

[M640x]

Just now, Mono said:

I can remember that even after several months and hundreds of miles I once or twice just fell off to the side out of the blue, like I had for a few second completely forgotten how to go straight. It was a somewhat scary experience, reminding me that going rather slower than faster is rarely a bad idea and that I hadn't internalized some important things yet.
 

That's exactly what it feels like on the 14.  I fall off the side.  All the time.  There were only a few times when I could go straight somewhat smoothly.  This thread is to figure out what everyone is using and see if there are commons.  Swivels seems to be one.

[Tazarinho]

5 minutes ago, Mono said:

I can remember that even after several months and hundreds of miles I once or twice just fell off to the side out of the blue, like I had for a few second completely forgotten how to go straight. It was a somewhat scary experience, reminding me that going rather slower than faster is rarely a bad idea and that I hadn't internalized some important things yet.
 

In fact that might be it. The key to going in a straight line was indeed trusting yourself and your wheel to go a bit faster!

[M640x]

I have that with the mten3.  It feels natural now after just a couple days on it.

[Mono]

14 minutes ago, Tazarinho said:

In fact that might be it. The key to going in a straight line was indeed trusting yourself and your wheel to go a bit faster!

Good point, what is the speed at which this typically happens @Senior Coffee? At walking speed it is notoriously difficult to keep a straight line.

Edited September 23, 2019 by Mono

[Mono]

Falling off to the side happens even to the most experienced ones

1

[tessa25]

I stay loose and let my hips move to make the small corrections needed to stay straight. Too stiff would definitely cause loss of balance.

[M640x]

1 hour ago, Mono said:

Good point, what is the speed at which this typically happens @Senior Coffee? At walking speed it is notoriously difficult to keep a straight line.

It would happen at walking speed or  more.  

[M640x]

42 minutes ago, tessa25 said:

I stay loose and let my hips move to make the small corrections needed to stay straight. Too stiff would definitely cause loss of balance.

I actually think you're right on the money with that, obviously it's working for you and a lot of other people.  The more and more I dig into the my riding style up to now, I think the swivel is the piece I'm missing for going straight.  Initially I was trying to use my feet to correct the we'll call it falling to the left or to the right.  Instead of just swiveling my hips which at the time I didn't know about, if I started falling to the right I would press down on the right pedal to get the wheel to go right and then of course I would have to correct that and press left to go back left. Anyway as you can see it will turn into a mess pretty quick.  On my mten3 I keep my feet completely still and I don't move them at all. I simply lean my upper half in the direction I want to go. I think the swiveling is happening without me even feeling it because riding the mten3 is an absolute breeze.

[Mono]

I think this 

24 minutes ago, Senior Coffee said:

if I started falling to the right I would press down on the right pedal to get the wheel to go right

works on the Mten, because it has such a small and wide tire, which I believe leads to a small turning radius. Therefore you can surrogate the swivel by tilting. On a bigger wheel this only works if you go much faster, because the initiated turn has a much larger radius.

Edited September 23, 2019 by Mono

[erk1024]

I'm trying to understand what wheel characteristics affect speed wobbles. Is this right?

Larger diameter --> less wobbles
Less weight --> less wobbles
More experience --> less wobbles
Wider tire --> ?
Tire compound --> ?

 

[RockyTop]

6 hours ago, erk1024 said:

I'm trying to understand what wheel characteristics affect speed wobbles. Is this right?

Larger diameter --> less wobbles
Less weight --> less wobbles
More experience --> less wobbles
Wider tire --> ?
Tire compound --> ?

 

 # 1 rider experience -less wobbles 

 # 2 rider experience - less care about wobbles

 # 3 rider experience 

 # 4 rider experience

 # 5 rider experience 

# 6 foot position (feet more forward or one forward one back) 

# 7 rider experience 

# 8 ok , tire combination, - tire pressure for weight of rider, tire bounce. Wide or narrow can effect ride. Back to rider experience. 

 

 

Edited October 5, 2019 by RockyTop

[RockyTop]

After more consideration. I thought I should be more helpful. I never really had much trouble with wobbles yet I have known a few people that would not be considered newbies that still wobble. 

Wobbles tend to occur when going straight at the riders top comfortable speed or just after hitting a bump. I have noticed that while learning to ride you have to get both of your feet to work together as a team. In the beginning this means doing the same thing with both feet at the same time. As you get better you learn that you can drive with either foot while keeping the other foot somewhat motionless. Once you can do this the wobbles are gone. (I am not saying that riding with one foot motionless  is the answer, just that once this skill level is learned the wobbles go away.)  

 Simple solution: learn to carve. Just weave back and forth shifting from one foot to the other as you travel. As you do this you will learn to trust either foot to drive. This will also improve your high speed turning. If weaving back and forth makes you uncomfortable, It is showing a weakness in your skills. .........  Just another thought on the never ending wobble questions. 

[Retrovertigo]

I actually started carving practice the other night while the roads were quiet. I didn't find it too bad at all. And a bonus was that I used a slightly offset stance like some have recommended here, and it seriously cuts down on foot pain as well. Only slight moment I had, was weaving and adjusting my feet at the same time and hit a dip in the road and got a serious wobble on. My first real brown pants moment  

Edited October 5, 2019 by Retrovertigo