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bigwave

Introduction and first wheel advice.

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Hello All,

I'm new to the forum and new to the world of EUC. A little background. 60yrs old, 6'0" 210 lbs, very athletic all my life. Currently my main sport is Kitesurfing (20yrs)both water and snow. I've been kite Hydrofoiling for the last 6 yrs as well. Currently ride a Onewheel Pint as well . Played Hockey, Raced Motocross ,Wing Suit(just kidding, NO Wing Suit...lol)  Blah Blah Blah....

Honestly ,I had no idea EUC existed a month ago. Since my discovery, I have been obsessed with watching videos and reading the forum here. My need for a EUC is strictly for fun. I don't need one for a commute. Just riding around, carving ,probably mostly on road but not ruling out some off road stuff. I really am so interested in learning how to do it. The challenge of learning how to ride will be very satisfying. 

So, the wheels I have been very interested in are the Kingsong 16x and the Gotway Nikola Plus. To the experienced riders here on the forum, would these be suitable? Should there be other wheels I should consider? 

Looking forward to hearing your advice! Thank You

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ahh you posted just as I hit save on my edit :D And yes if you want speed, don't bother with KS16X that isn't what it is build but no matter what specifications says on paper. 

I would also say most members comming here asked save questions, but ended up with a few wheels as no wheeel do it all. 

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An other skip the beginner wheel from me, or get a second hand if unsure. Seems you would like EUCs though, you could get a powerful one right away and protect it while learning. Some scratches are inevitable anyway.

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I appreciate the reply's. 

@Unventor , The video was very good. It was one I did not see. You and @mrelwood brought up some excellent points about speed. Being a newbie, I'm not sure what I will be comfortable with. I have a fairly good perception of speed from my Hydrofoiling. I'm a free ride foiler ,typically going 25-35 kmh ,carving ,riding waves etc.(racing hydrofoils go over 50kmh) My PEV experience is limited to my OneWheel Pint. I'm new at it as well but I'm pretty good on it ,carving ,riding both ways ( Very experienced on a snowboard, both soft and hard boots). I experienced push back on my first day ,25 kmh. I didn't even feel I was going that fast. My rides since then (only 6 times, winter here) I'm very aware of the speed I'm going and have not had a push back since.I'm pretty happy going around 20 kmh on the Pint. Your advice is well taken about the possible speed I will want to ride regarding wheel choice. I can't imagine wanting to go much more than 35 kmh but I bet everyone has said that...lol

@Espen R thanks for the heads up about the new Gotway MSX V2. I have looked at the Kingsong 18XL videos and its definitely one to consider. For what ever reason , I have my self convinced I need a wheel that has a 3" wide tire. Every review says its more stable. Perhaps someone who has experience on both can let me know the pros and cons.

In some videos I've watched regarding the 16x , @Mike Sacristan says its a very different ride compared to other wheels. I would think not being able to ride (Me) This would not be an issue? 

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44 minutes ago, null said:

An other skip the beginner wheel from me, or get a second hand if unsure. Seems you would like EUCs though, you could get a powerful one right away and protect it while learning. Some scratches are inevitable anyway.

I agree. Not really sure what a beginner wheel is? Most of the tall or strong-ish people I've taught prefers the KS-18XL, because they feel it is more stable. Shorter people prefer the V10F, because it is lighter. Nobody likes the KS-16S, at least not before they have gained some skills.

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55 minutes ago, bigwave said:

@Espen R thanks for the heads up about the new Gotway MSX V2. I have looked at the Kingsong 18XL videos and its definitely one to consider. For what ever reason, I have my self convinced I need a wheel that has a 3" wide tire. Every review says its more stable. Perhaps someone who has experience on both can let me know the pros and cons.

I'm not sure about the 3" tires. You gain high speed stability, but loose agility. For me the fun part of EUC's is on off-road trails, high speed on tarmac doesn't really rock my boat, it's almost a bit boring. Like you I've done high speed sports, but speed was never the motivation. 20-30 km/h on a narrow trail with roots and stones is where I find joy riding EUC's, it's about flow and being one with the terrain. I wouldn't trade a 2.5" wheel for a 3" one, because of agility and the physics of rotating mass, making it harder to break down the wheel at speeds over 20 km/h with a wider tire, and I have never felt I lacked high speed stability with the 2.5”. I have been looking at an MSX for winter use, because I could more easily fit a winter tire with studs on it, but I use the wheel for my grocery shopping and need a good stable trolley handle, which the MSX doesn't have. 

I used to have a Onewheel+ and have been drewling over the Pint a while. Still think the range is to low though.

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35 minutes ago, Espen R said:

I agree. Not really sure what a beginner wheel is? Most of the tall or strong-ish people I've taught prefers the KS-18XL, because they feel it is more stable. Shorter people prefer the V10F, because it is lighter. Nobody likes the KS-16S, at least not before they have gained some skills.

I think you mean KS16X. 

So the KS16X can be used as a first wheel, almost any wheel can. But it is all about learning curve and intuitive behaviour of the wheel. That is part reason why it feel fun, you need to get the hand of the high speed behaviour. 

As for 3" wide wheels, some say that is a must, but I seriously doubt that as first wheel. Now sine you already have a one wheel, I would imagine you get the EUC part fairly fast. 

It you will find why some prefer one wheel and others prefer EUC. Despite "similar" they are yet very different and I am pretty sure you will find an EUC more versatile on how you can use it. Now you could choose a MSX too, but from what I gather most find a KS18XL/L more comfortable especially with xl/Jason pedals. If you get a newer batch it will have digital lift sensor same as KS16X, and it works spot on. 

The Nikola might be a option too, but I think the KS18XL beats it as a more practical build. The only thing is speed that GW is having high focus on, where KS built with speed as a 3rd or 4th focus area. 

If you are on android you got great support for KS with @Seba new EUC.WOULD app. It works with other brands too. But now it got full KS support. If you can go to a local meet up and talk to people. Talk all in and stir the pot. But be mindfil that people will lean towards their choice.

I would say this though. The V10f is in my opinion a great modern learner wheel. And yes it comes down to how it rides and investment costs. Yet with your one wheel experience I would go for KS18XL. I think there are a Canadian seller or ewheels ship to Canada too. 

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Like speedyfeet said in a video, something along these lines. "We often get this phonecall - I don't really know if I'm going to like it so I don't want bla bla... Honestly speaking, everyone likes it, so don't use that argument to decide what to buy."

At 210lbs get a powerful wheel with wider tires.

If offroad is on your radar then go MsX or 16X or Nikola for the tire width. Ironically the 19 inch MsX is the lighter of the three while still being larger. Win-win.

If you want to ride something more consumer oriented then maybe go Kingsong or Inmotion, like V10f or 18XL. I put in a ton of km on an inmotion. I was never attracted by the gotways thinking they were unsafe. Now I kind of lean towards having more power than needed in order to be safe. That means gotways are safer in a way because they have a bit more power and would self sacrifice themselves before cutting off power and crashing a rider. They get a bad reputation by all the crazy riders choosing them.

Gotways have weaker shells (maybe not the nikola) so make sure you put lots of padding on the new and shiny EUC before you set off learning how to ride. You'll have 100 drops in the first 100km and maybe one each 5000km after a while.

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9 hours ago, Espen R said:

I'm not sure about the 3" tires. You gain high speed stability, but loose agility. For me the fun part of EUC's is on off-road trails, high speed on tarmac doesn't really rock my boat, it's almost a bit boring. Like you I've done high speed sports, but speed was never the motivation. 20-30 km/h on a narrow trail with roots and stones is where I find joy riding EUC's, it's about flow and being one with the terrain. I wouldn't trade a 2.5" wheel for a 3" one, because of agility and the physics of rotating mass, making it harder to break down the wheel at speeds over 20 km/h with a wider tire, and I have never felt I lacked high speed stability with the 2.5”. 

I do most of my riding off-road, and like you, speed isn't my main concern, but rather the thrill of navigating through rough and challenging terrain. I've enjoyed myself enormously on the 18XL, which is an excellent wheel for off-roading (even more so since torque was increased with firmware update 2.0)

When I first hopped on the 16X, I was VERY impressed at how agile and nimble it is... Makes the 18XL feel like a tank in comparison...

I started with the V8, and have to admit I found there was a considerable learning curve when I upgraded to the 18XL. I don't think it would have been nearly as pronounced going from the V8 to the 16X. The tire width increases stability but seems to hit the perfect sweet spot where it doesn't compromise agility. 

If I were to keep only one of the wheels I own, I think it would be the 16X... 

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Also remember. Nothing prevents a rider from mounting a narrower tire on a wider wheel. 

Also considering the OP would learn riding on the wider tire he'd probably not feel weird.

Also I've noticed the kind of tire used can make a big difference. I'm sure there are 3inch tires out there that can make tight turns (shaped in a certain way).

Another thing to consider is rider size when comparing feel. A smaller rider on a 2.125 inch wheel is going to experience what a larger rider feels on a wider tire.

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1 hour ago, alcatraz said:

Like speedyfeet said in a video, something along these lines. "We often get this phonecall - I don't really know if I'm going to like it so I don't want bla bla... Honestly speaking, everyone likes it, so don't use that argument to decide what to buy."

At 210lbs get a powerful wheel with wider tires.

If offroad is on your radar then go MsX or 16X or Nikola for the tire width. Ironically the 19 inch MsX is the lighter of the three while still being larger. Win-win.

If you want to ride something more consumer oriented then maybe go Kingsong or Inmotion, like V10f or 18XL. I put in a ton of km on an inmotion. I was never attracted by the gotways thinking they were unsafe. Now I kind of lean towards having more power than needed in order to be safe. That means gotways are safer in a way because they have a bit more power and would self sacrifice themselves before cutting off power and crashing a rider. They get a bad reputation by all the crazy riders choosing them.

Gotways have weaker shells (maybe not the nikola) so make sure you put lots of padding on the new and shiny EUC before you set off learning how to ride. You'll have 100 drops in the first 100km and maybe one each 5000km after a while.

You are right, I'm 100% sure I will be really liking riding a EUC. Offroad is on my radar for sure but ,realistically I picture myself more on the road. I honestly can't really think of any cool trails around where I would ride that would be suitable for a EUC. Thats why I had originally thought the 16x or Nikola would be something that would be a good first choice given my weight.Each of those wheels seems to have good on/off road capabilities. The guys have also praised the KS18XL which I have watched several video's. 

What ever wheel I choose I'm sure it will do everything I want it to do. I have a saying, pick a sport (we'll use EUC) "That wheel (Insert Favourite ) will be better than I will ever be". Meaning I will never explore the performance limits of what ever wheel I will pick, I just want ride around having fun and being safe. But,  picking the best one based on my needs is why I posted originally .

Thank you for the excellent advice !

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6 hours ago, travsformation said:

I do most of my riding off-road, and like you, speed isn't my main concern, but rather the thrill of navigating through rough and challenging terrain. I've enjoyed myself enormously on the 18XL, which is an excellent wheel for off-roading (even more so since torque was increased with firmware update 2.0)

When I first hopped on the 16X, I was VERY impressed at how agile and nimble it is... Makes the 18XL feel like a tank in comparison...

I started with the V8, and have to admit I found there was a considerable learning curve when I upgraded to the 18XL. I don't think it would have been nearly as pronounced going from the V8 to the 16X. The tire width increases stability but seems to hit the perfect sweet spot where it doesn't compromise agility. 

If I were to keep only one of the wheels I own, I think it would be the 16X... 

It is really interesting to read that tire dimension has more effect on the law of rotating mass than the with. My experience from this is comparing the KS-18XL to the MSX, where the MSX, though still a great wheel, felt more like a train/tank than the XL. I ride under fairly rough off-road conditions, you wouldn't be able to ride an off-road bike on some of the trails because of how the rocks are positioned, so my question is: How would you compare the XL to the 16X when you have to ride up curb sized rocks? The other question I have is: How does the 16X feel when you ride with high-ish tire pressure? Is it bouncier than the XL?

5 hours ago, mrelwood said:

While the question of ”which wheel should I get” gets asked constanty, I think so far this thread has perhaps the best value per post. Excellents points and replies from everyone! Yet, there is not or will not be a single model to point to. After gaining experience you might as well prefer the MSX, Nikola, 16X, or 18XL. All marvellous wheels! And each with it’s own quirks.

Actually, the quirks might be the most important point when choosing a wheel; which quirks can you live with? A lousy trolley, discomfort, slow to react, having to replace small pedals, requiring DIY, lacking in speed...?

(Although, this method will always choose the 18XL...  :D)

And to confuse the OP... For me as well, I absolutely get the best tickles from off-roading! Both very technical (and slow) as well as faster paths. And I would be extremely disappointed if I had to do it on a 2.5” tire! Due to my technique of using more tilt than twist, I’m able to turn in a much tighter radius on a 3” tire, as well as allowing me to ride slower with more precision.

Tire width: Purely personal choice. Check!

 

While irrelevant for the point, I think more than the difference in mass it’s the larger diameter of the wider tire that slows down the wheel’s behaviour.

 

You should consider a 2.50-14 Minicross tire for your 18XL, fitted with 4x9mm screw-in studs!

Again, very interesting. This is probably the best thread on this subject I have read. As I said above, I have only tested the MSX against the XL, before the 2.0 update, and in the terrain I ride, it felt more like a train than the XL, but not necessarily in a bad way. Better going over obstacles, stiffer slaloming between rocks, and the ergonomics didn't feel natural. Still a wheel I'm considering buying though, or more like playing with the idea while I wait for a 18-22" wheel that really fits the bill. I would fit a cross tire to and use it for brute force off-roading and as a winter wheel with studs. It would be hard do embrace some of GW’s design flaws and issues though:) As your wrote, on a pros and cons list, the XL always wins by a mile.

As for winter tire on the XL, I've tried 3 different tires, and one of them was a 2.50-14 cross tire. I had to do a lot of trimming in order for it to fit. Great off-road, but killed all the little fun there is riding on tarmac, and almost dangerous above 30 km/h. An in-between cross/road tire with deeper threads is the dream. The threads on the GW Monster tire looks about perfect to me.

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5 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

That is a great point! I started with a 500W Lhotz, but the MSX has made me so much more relaxed, and unfornately a bit careless. It really does steam-roll over almost everything! I am worried about the ”almost” though, since with these speeds and power, it would likely be pretty bad news.

Exactly! That's what I meant but with the V8 and 16X, though I wasn't able to word it as well. :)

Edited by Tazarinho

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I like that ranking you have done a lot. Some might have different opinions but I cannot argue against that list in any way.

I think it is the easiest list to sum up things fast between the most sold wheels for the time being.

However just like you say, you can't buy a car on papers only, it is about test ride/feel vs the plan of use. 

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