Kingsong, one of China's spy channels on the rest of the world???

[giggidditygiggiddity]

13 hours ago, gon2fast said:

get a non-contract phone and run the app on that. If you spent $1800+ on the wheel, what is $100 more? 

^^this, I'll likely get a 2nd unlocked phone for that peace of mind.  kinda worrisome that I think I had been sim-swapped last year myself, but I guess using gmail only for trash didn't get much use.   

[Marty Backe]

3 minutes ago, gr8ps said:

Show me the man and I'll show you the crime. 

I'm not doing anything illegal to my knowledge anyways. Now are there some embarrassing, potentially career harming messages on my phone? Maybe. People have become way to flippant about privacy. Once it's gone, it's hard to claw back. 

I live in the real world, not my phone (or computer). I get up, eat breakfast, go outside, etc. Whatever happens in the virtual world has no bearing on the physical world, unless you let it.

I spent part of my weekend wheeling with friends in the mountains. We were oblivious to the world and it to us.

[LanghamP]

3 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

I'm an open book. They can have it all. I'm sure the contents of my phone would be absolutely fascinating 

Life's too short for me to worry about all this "big brother" stuff.

Getting full access to your phone would have the person immediately delete all your emails while resetting password of said account, then sending reset emails to your email account, such as banking, Amazon, etc...

Longer term, wouldn't you be concerned with your health care information being freely available? Employees concerned with rising medical costs would simply skip over pre existing conditions, and who is to say a hacked medical record is different from a voluntarily disclosed medical record?

[Hatchet]

If you use Facebook, it's already too late for you.

Also, why doesn't KS or GW see the potential sales point that developing a really robust, user-friendly app that includes wheel-specific information easily available? Match that to a simple onboard computer and a few sensors for (accurate) temps and voltage etc.

No bullcrap location, phone number, etc. It would be a big selling point, especially compared to the competition.

But then, GW won't put a piece of cloth over a speaker or include a mudguard, lol. (Not to say KS are much better)

[Rywokast]

you are giving them waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much credit lol, i think their app was just designed by a 12 year old and they have no idea what theyre doing.. same with most euc manufacturer apps, theyre horrible.. rockwheel, gotway, and kingsong all pretty bad.. inmotion and ninebot are the only ones with the money/resources/actually care i think that can make a decent app..  unless youre the president, no one in china cares about your noods xD use a friends phone and then uninstall the app if youre that uncomfortable.. you dont NEED to use the app for anything but unlocking and firmware updates. apps been installed on my phone for years, actually three kingsong apps, two gotway, a rockwheel, two ninebot, and an inmotion.. if they had the know how to make an app, and publish it on the play store, im fairly certain they wouldnt need to request these permissions anyways.. i mean im not really sure how accessing your pictures, making phone calls, or recording audio would help them anyways.. i think with this app they had planned to do the same social aspect as the last one like being able to take pics and videos from the app with an overlay etc, phone permissions for unlocking and registering, maybe for customer support as you can do that through the app i believe.. im not terribly sure, but i dont think these permissions are needed for ios and ios is like half the market so why would they not also do it for that if a very small private company in china was planning on a huge fraudulent scheme against all other countries lol

Edited July 8, 2019 by Rywokast

[Micheal Shen]

5 minutes ago, Rywokast said:

you are giving them waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much credit lol, i think their app was just designed by a 12 year old and they have no idea what theyre doing.. same with pretty much all euc manufacturer apps, theyre horrible.. rockwheel, gotway, and kingsong all pretty bad.. inmotion and ninebot are the only ones with the money/resources i think that can make a decent app.. you need to worry a lot more about your own government spying on you lol, unless youre the president, no one in china cares about your noods xD use a friends phone and then uninstall the app if youre that uncomfortable.. you dont NEED to use the app for anything but unlocking and firmware updates

Haha, Governments can locate you whether you open the GPS or not. If you dislike it, you need to throw your mobile phone.

Google and Apple set many rules for APP personal information disclosure when upload APP to it. So who set rules for Google and Apple to disclosure those personal information?

It's funny topic, hope Goolge and Apple don't block my account!

[Rywokast]

Just now, Micheal Shen said:

Haha, Governments can locate you whether you open the GPS or not. If you dislike it, you need to throw your mobile phone.

Google and Apple set many rules for APP personal information disclosure when upload APP to it. So who set rules for Google and Apple to disclosure those personal information?

It's funny topic, hope Goolge and Apple don't block my account!

exactly.. if your phone has a battery in it, then anyone with the technical know how and resources can hack it they dont need to put out an electric unicycle app to do it.. and what a horrible way to do it lmao, like how many people are using electric unicycles, kingsong electric unicycles?? what a terrible plan that would be

[Micheal Shen]

2 minutes ago, Rywokast said:

exactly.. if your phone has a battery in it, then anyone with the technical know how and resources can hack it they dont need to put out an electric unicycle app to do it.. and what a horrible way to do it lmao, like how many people are using electric unicycles, kingsong electric unicycles?? what a terrible plan that would be

Buddy, you are worring too much. I can't guess who know how many EUCs will hurt you xD

 

[Rywokast]

30 minutes ago, Micheal Shen said:

Buddy, you are worring too much. I can't guess who know how many EUCs will hurt you xD

 

me? im not worried one bit lol i dont even have a pass code on my phone idgaf

[mrelwood]

In my mind the security issue nowadays is exactly that Android asks for permissions and Windows pops up warnings for every software installed. The main thing this achieves is to numb people for said warnings. The KingSong app is a perfect example, either allow all permissions or your $2000 product doesn’t work. It doesn’t matter if it actually calls home or not, this is becoming the standard, and users are practically no longer given the choice to decline. It may not be used against us just yet, but the users are taught to just approve all warnings, permissions and licence agreements. Or be left out, which is not a real possibility in our society when it comes to Google, Facebook and the like.

The South Park episode comes to mind, in which they approve a long licence agreement without reading. ”Nobody reads these anyway, right?” By doing that they of course signed on for a whole lot more than intended...

[mrelwood]

 

8 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Whatever happens in the virtual world has no bearing on the physical world, unless you let it.

That’s exactly it, KingSong app requires that you let it!

Those worlds haven’t been separate for quite a while now. Almost all your money is in the virtual world, as well as your car and house ownership information, etc. Scrap those and suddenly you don’t own much.

Oh, you have your wheels though. Damn, I need to invest more as well!

8 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

I spent part of my weekend wheeling with friends in the mountains. We were oblivious to the world and it to us.

You don’t watch nearly enough movies my friend! 

3 hours ago, Hatchet said:

If you use Facebook, it's already too late for you.

Exactly. Good luck trying to be for example a freelancer without an active Facebook account.

[atdlzpae]

Nah, "they" know everything you do on your phone anyway. If you really want privacy use a laptop with Linux.

 

You know what's really atrocious? That this f**** app requires an internet connection to set the alarms and tiltbacks.

This works fine today... What when an intern trips over the wrong wire, China decides to firewall one server too much or KingSong goes bankrupt? We'll be stuck with the current tiltback settings on our wheels. :-/

A wheel set to Polish laws [25km/h] will be illegal in Finland [20km/h] because of needless IoT-fication of our wheels. :-(

And your KingSong wheel will be completely useless during any competition because you won't be able to temporarily disable tiltback.

Edited July 8, 2019 by atdlzpae

[Marty Backe]

57 minutes ago, atdlzpae said:

Nah, "they" know everything you do on your phone anyway. If you really want privacy use a laptop with Linux.

 

You know what's really atrocious? That this f**** app requires an internet connection to set the alarms and tiltbacks.

This works fine today... What when an intern trips over the wrong wire, China decides to firewall one server too much or KingSong goes bankrupt? We'll be stuck with the current tiltback settings on our wheels. :-/

A wheel set to Polish laws [25km/h] will be illegal in Finland [20km/h] because of needless IoT-fication of our wheels. :-(

And your KingSong wheel will be completely useless during any competition because you won't be able to temporarily disable tiltback.

Lets not spread FUD. This is absolutely not true. The app will show a network error which will prevent the social functions from working, but you can fully configure the wheel without an Internet or cell connection.

Don't believe me? Put your phone in Airplane mode, turn on Bluetooth, and start the app. Oh, you do own a KingSong wheel, right?

Not so atrocious hopefully 

Edited July 8, 2019 by Marty Backe

[atdlzpae]

I just checked this on my KS16S.

I'm absolutely unable to enter the "Speed settings" tab without an internet connection. Please check it on your KS if you can. :-)

 

With internet connection it takes 1s to enter the tab. Without it shows "Network issue" and never lets me in.

I can change the lights fine, colors too, but I can't change audible alarms and tiltback without the internet.

This is not a FUD. Please try it yourself. :-)

Edited July 8, 2019 by atdlzpae

[Marty Backe]

53 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

 

That’s exactly it, KingSong app requires that you let it!

Those worlds haven’t been separate for quite a while now. Almost all your money is in the virtual world, as well as your car and house ownership information, etc. Scrap those and suddenly you don’t own much.

Oh, you have your wheels though. Damn, I need to invest more as well!

You don’t watch nearly enough movies my friend! 

Exactly. Good luck trying to be for example a freelancer without an active Facebook account.

This is equivalent to our discussion of social wheel apps? Civilization is ending when our homes, cars, money just disappears. People have been predicting that for over a century. But somehow life continues and civilization has not ended.

Because we do live in a civilized world, nobody can virtually steal your home, car, or money.

[Marty Backe]

2 minutes ago, atdlzpae said:

I just checked on my KS16S.

I'm absolutely unable to enter the "Speed settings" tab without an internet connection. Please check it on your KS if you can. :-)

 

With internet connection it takes 1s to enter the tab. Without it shows "Network issue" and never lets me in.

I'm using the latest KingSong app. 15-minutes ago I connected to my KS18XL and could do anything I wanted to the wheel, all the while the app showed "Network Issue".

EDIT: Even with the Network Issue, the app instantly connected to my 18XL and allowed me to do what I wanted.

Edited July 8, 2019 by Marty Backe

[atdlzpae]

Including tiltback? The "Speed settings" tab?

Because that's the only one I'm unable to enter without the internet. All others work fine, just as you say.

Edited July 8, 2019 by atdlzpae

[atdlzpae]

The "Speed settings" tab is different from all others. KingSong app connects to the server every time you try to enter this particular tab. If there is no internet, it doesn't let you in.

All other functions work, just speed alarms don't. Thus, I'm not surprised people may be confused.

I'm wondering why they did it like this, but the implication is: One day that function will stop working. We've seen many IoT companies leave people with expensive paperweights. I don't want this to happen to my own hardware.

 

Ps. I'm using version 3.1.1 of the KS app. I'll try it on the newest version when I have time.

Edited July 8, 2019 by atdlzpae

[Marty Backe]

27 minutes ago, atdlzpae said:

The "Speed settings" tab is different from all others. KingSong app connects to the server every time you try to enter this particular tab. If there is no internet, it doesn't let you in.

All other functions work, just speed alarms don't. Thus, I'm not surprised people may be confused.

I'm wondering why they did it like this, but the implication is: One day that function will stop working. We've seen many IoT companies leave people with expensive paperweights. I don't want this to happen to my own hardware.

 

Ps. I'm using version 3.1.1 of the KS app. I'll try it on the newest version when I have time.

I stand corrected. The Speed Settings capability is blocked with no Internet or cell coverage. Fortunately that's probably only adjusted when the wheel is new, but you are certainly correct that if KingSong goes bankrupt, you're out-of-luck. On the other hand, using a previous non-social version of the app would allow you to configure the wheel, hopefully.

OK, so a little bit of FUD is warranted here 

Edited July 8, 2019 by Marty Backe

[atdlzpae]

Thx!

I promise to reverse engineer it in a few months. I hope they are just asking "Can I do it mr. server???" instead of using cryptography [which would make it more difficult].

[UniVehje]

I cannot test right now, but isn't it possible to change tiltback/speed settings on third party apps also? (DarknessBot and WheelLog) You might need the KingSong app only for the first time after 5km and then (maybe) after 200 km. 

I have to say that on iPhone or iPad the latest version of KingSong app has been working very well. It always connects fast and reliable. I also have no worries about privacy, I only needed to allow location for the first adjustment but not after that. There are no other permissions needed. People usually have frustrations when unlocking their new 18XL because the app suggests using phone number and that doesn't work most of the time. With email it usually works well. 

But I do also agree that their present system is risky. I think there was a rumour that they are reverting back from the location and internet connection requirement with the 16X?

[The Fat Unicyclist]

6 hours ago, Micheal Shen said:

Haha, Governments can locate you whether you open the GPS or not. If you dislike it, you need to throw your mobile phone.

Google and Apple set many rules for APP personal information disclosure when upload APP to it. So who set rules for Google and Apple to disclosure those personal information?

It's funny topic, hope Goolge and Apple don't block my account!

Which I am fine with... For two reasons;

1. I'm not robbing banks, so they won't care about me.
     
2. When I overlean and end up falling into a ditch somewhere, "they" will know where to find my broken and bleeding body!

[atdlzpae]

25 minutes ago, UniVehje said:

I cannot test right now, but isn't it possible to change tiltback/speed settings on third party apps also? (DarknessBot and WheelLog) You might need the KingSong app only for the first time after 5km and then (maybe) after 200 km.

WheelLog has no such functionality, I can't comment on DarknessBot.

Please, test it! I don't have an iPhone and I'd love to know if this problem also exists on iOS. :-)

[Rywokast]

3 minutes ago, atdlzpae said:

WheelLog has no such functionality, I can't comment on DarknessBot.

Please, test it! I don't have an iPhone and I'd love to know if this problem also exists on iOS. :-)

i think only alarms will work with any 3rd party app on a kingsong.. not speed limit.. but why would you ever want to change it from the max?

[ir_fuel]

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

nobody can virtually steal your home, car, or money.

With money it's pretty easy, unless you store it in cash under your bed.

Cybercrime has consequences in the real world.