Kingsong, one of China's spy channels on the rest of the world???

[ir_fuel]

14 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

I'm an open book. They can have it all. I'm sure the contents of my phone would be absolutely fascinating 

Ah, the "I don't care that we get monitored 24/7, if you have nothing to hide you shouldn't care" premise.

 

https://medium.com/@FabioAEsteves/i-have-nothing-to-hide-why-should-i-care-about-my-privacy-f488281b8f1d

 

https://www.mic.com/articles/188563/who-cares-i-have-nothing-to-hide-why-the-popular-response-to-online-privacy-is-so-flawed

 

 

 

[ir_fuel]

7 hours ago, Micheal Shen said:

Google and Apple set many rules for APP personal information disclosure when upload APP to it. So who set rules for Google and Apple to disclosure those personal information?

Big difference:

if you write an iOS app and ask for all kinds of permissions (phone book access etc) but there is:

- no explanation in the app why the permission is required

- no clear usage of those permission by your app (e.g. asking access to address book when the app only shows features related to configuring your wheel)

your app will simply be refused by the App Store review team at Apple.

 

Android: do whatever you want!

[ir_fuel]

On 7/7/2019 at 6:53 AM, Sidewalk Enforcer said:

Throwing "Kingsong" or any manufacturer under the bus because the OS their app runs on has the blunt instrument of "permission requests" to function is unfair.

Bad actors in the app stores of various platforms have caused the software houses that make the OS to force vendors who publish apps to these platforms to declare and "ask" the user for permission to apply the permissions level required for certain functions within the app to work. Many of the permission requests sound scary but the category of requests are broad and cover a large variety of functional calls that the app makes to the OS.

Want to offer your customers the ability to track their ride within the wheel app? - gonna need to access files to create the log data so that you can read it later, read GPS location data etc.
Want to record your own audio warnings in the app? - gonna need to have permission to record audio. etc. etc.

Sorry, that does not make sense. These permissions aren't that broad. 

This for instance:

"Want to offer your customers the ability to track their ride within the wheel app? - gonna need to access files to create the log data so that you can read it later, "

is nonsense. No app needs to ask permission to write its own files in its own sandbox.

 

 

[atdlzpae]

34 minutes ago, Rywokast said:

i think only alarms will work with any 3rd party app on a kingsong.. not speed limit.. but why would you ever want to change it from the max?

1. In some countries mobility devices have to have their speed limited to be street legal.

2. Sometimes you want to limit your own speed - for example I feel comfortable on my KS16S at > 30km/h, but i know that I should ride it at < 25km/h.

3. You may want to limit the speed when you rent the wheel for a newbie.

 

18 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

Ah, the "I don't care that we get monitored 24/7, if you have nothing to hide you shouldn't care" premise.

Edward Snowden: "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say."

Edited July 8, 2019 by atdlzpae

[Sidewalk Enforcer]

Gosh, there's a lot of tinfoil-hattery in this thread. Do not attribute malice to that which can be explained by incompetence. 

These are kids consumer toys in the same market as hoverboards, esk8s and kick-scooters. The phone apps for consumer products are almost universally awful, buggy and crashy, thrown together in a rushed - that'll do fashion (sometimes months after product release) and relegated to abandon-ware soon after. As others have stated - hardly a viable platform for world domination. 

Sure it would be great if these apps were more slick, able to gracefully handle errors or offer partial functionality if the permissions required for the feature set are not granted. But I'll try not to sweat the small stuff, save my sanity and enjoy the ride in the meantime.

[ir_fuel]

13 minutes ago, Sidewalk Enforcer said:

Gosh, there's a lot of tinfoil-hattery in this thread. Do not attribute malice to that which can be explained by incompetence. 

These are kids consumer toys in the same market as hoverboards, esk8s and kick-scooters. The phone apps for consumer products are almost universally awful, buggy and crashy, thrown together in a rushed - that'll do fashion (sometimes months after product release) and relegated to abandon-ware soon after. As others have stated - hardly a viable platform for world domination. 

Funny that you mention this:

https://gizmodo.com/smart-toy-maker-to-pay-650-000-after-millions-of-kids-1821878827

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/17/german-parents-told-to-destroy-my-friend-cayla-doll-spy-on-children

 

You call that "tinfoil hattery". I call it criminal.

It's not about world domination. It's about invading your private life.

 

 

 

[Marty Backe]

6 hours ago, ir_fuel said:

With money it's pretty easy, unless you store it in cash under your bed.

Cybercrime has consequences in the real world.

I said in the Civilized World this can't happen. We had funds taken from our bank once due to a fraudulent debit card transaction. The bank refunded the money.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if somehow your entire bank account was emptied, you don't think the bank would refund the money?

[Marty Backe]

6 hours ago, ir_fuel said:

Ah, the "I don't care that we get monitored 24/7, if you have nothing to hide you shouldn't care" premise.

 

https://medium.com/@FabioAEsteves/i-have-nothing-to-hide-why-should-i-care-about-my-privacy-f488281b8f1d

 

https://www.mic.com/articles/188563/who-cares-i-have-nothing-to-hide-why-the-popular-response-to-online-privacy-is-so-flawed

 

 

 

I should say that I care about privacy. But when I use my phone or the Internet I assume no privacy.

[LanghamP]

6 hours ago, ir_fuel said:

 

You call that "tinfoil hattery". I call it criminal.

It's not about world domination. It's about invading your private life.

The Medium article encapsulates why for most people privacy is beneficial to them.

However, you're asking @Marty BackeBacke to change his lifestyle in order to protect his privacy and, to some extent, try to get organizations to change their existing privacy procedures (with no exceptions they erode privacy laws). You cannot change someone's right to be willfully ignorant if that entails them being inconvenienced, especially if they can transfer the cost to someone else; for instance the lost bank account money isnt retrieved but instead taken out from all of us.

Forgoing personal privacy and security (security and personal security are different) is very much like picking up pennies in front of a steam roller; most of the time you're fine until you really aren't. In the above case banks very much act like insurance companies when they are stewards of their clients' money.

We criticize China's massive surveillance network that assigns citizens a social worth score, yet we have several such systems in place in the USA.

However, privacy concerns are extremely easy convince people of; the simple process of being hacked turns everyone into a true believer of personal security and privacy.

[Benphysics]

7 hours ago, Sidewalk Enforcer said:

Gosh, there's a lot of tinfoil-hattery in this thread. Do not attribute malice to that which can be explained by incompetence. 

These are kids consumer toys in the same market as hoverboards, esk8s and kick-scooters. The phone apps for consumer products are almost universally awful, buggy and crashy, thrown together in a rushed - that'll do fashion (sometimes months after product release) and relegated to abandon-ware soon after. As others have stated - hardly a viable platform for world domination. 

Sure it would be great if these apps were more slick, able to gracefully handle errors or offer partial functionality if the permissions required for the feature set are not granted. But I'll try not to sweat the small stuff, save my sanity and enjoy the ride in the meantime.

I think that you do not see the whole picture. I'm 68 and know others of my age, especially my adrenaline junky friends at the race track, we are all looking for challenges. In my circle alone I have  doctors, lawyers, engineers,  shrinks, a skyrise building contractor, and many many other highly influential people. As they see me riding my wheel, most of them want to come aboard, they think that this is the coolest thing they've ever seen. So the euc fan club is actually moving up the ladder; it is not only for kids. It brings us back to our motocross years while some of us still do. The euc is taking over a broad range of enthusiasts and does not care about your age or profession. So, yes, we do not want intrusion into our confidential information. Obviously a separate phone is the only solution; as long as everyone is aware of the problem; which is the reason for this thread.

Edited July 8, 2019 by Benphysics

[ir_fuel]

1 hour ago, LanghamP said:

However, you're asking @Marty BackeBacke to change his lifestyle in order to protect his privacy

No I didn't. 

I just showed why I don't agree with the "I have nothing to hide" cliché.

[LanghamP]

1 hour ago, ir_fuel said:

No I didn't. 

I just showed why I don't agree with the "I have nothing to hide" cliché.

The "nothing to hide" thinking is why a person would continue  without change. A person who thinks they have nothing to hide (bank account numbers, passwords, and private health information) is saying they don't need to make changes to their lifestyle. In contrast, a person who isn't hiding anything but realized some of their private information should be hidden...will want to then make changes in order to safeguard their information. While they may or may not make changes, they realize they should make changes.

The "I have nothing to hide" is a call to inaction.

[atdlzpae]

7 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if somehow your entire bank account was emptied, you don't think the bank would refund the money? 

Definitely not right away. You may have no access to your stolen savings for a year while the legal process is underway. Which while not fatal would be a huge hassle. 

Anyway, privacy != security. Using a supported Android/iOS device is not private, but very secure. :-)

Edited July 8, 2019 by atdlzpae

[Marty Backe]

11 minutes ago, atdlzpae said:

Definitely not right away. You may have no access to your stolen savings for a year while the legal process is underway. Which while not fatal would be a huge hassle. 

Anyway, privacy != security. Using a supported Android/iOS device is not private, but very secure. :-)

I don't know, somehow I don't think it would take year, at least in America. Hoping to never test the hypothesis 

[Rywokast]

33 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I don't know, somehow I don't think it would take year, at least in America. Hoping to never test the hypothesis 

in cadada it would be near instant.. just one phone call.. under law you are 100% covered for any bank, any credit card.. any dime that was stolen you are covered always

[chrisjunlee]

Agree with you that the app is clumsily asking for too many permissions.

Kind of paranoid to go from there to "zomg SPIES".

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, Rywokast said:

in cadada it would be near instant.. just one phone call.. under law you are 100% covered for any bank, any credit card.. any dime that was stolen you are covered always

Then surely the United States can't be too far behind Canada 

[mrelwood]

1 hour ago, Rywokast said:

in cadada it would be near instant.. just one phone call.. under law you are 100% covered for any bank, any credit card.. any dime that was stolen you are covered always

This made me think, do people do the crime of going to atm, pick up cash, and afterwards call to the bank and claim that it was stolen? If not, why not? If the customer is expected of no proof, I think people would be doing it. If one has to somehow prove that it was stolen, then you are not 100% covered for a skillful cyber crime.

But getting from a hastily made up app to this is a work of art in the art of derailing a topic...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rywokast]

37 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

This made me think, do people do the crime of going to atm, pick up cash, and afterwards call to the bank and claim that it was stolen? If not, why not? If the customer is expected of no proof, I think people would be doing it. If one has to somehow prove that it was stolen, then you are not 100% covered for a skillful cyber crime.

But getting from a hastily made up app to this is a work of art in the art of derailing a topic...

because theyre not retarded lol.. all atm's and banks have cameras, every online transaction has a trail.. no customer is expected of proof of any kind merely the claim that it was not their purchase, it is immediately refunded and it is up to the banks to do their own investigating.. if they find out that something is fishy or doesnt look right then they can argue it.. fraud is taken very seriously though and if you were to get caught lying, which you would be.. you would get a nice prison sentence and never be able to get another bank account or credit card lol.. the government/banks spend who knows how many millions a year because of fraud if they are not able to get the money back.. usually though its online and they can just pull the money back one way or another.. but sometimes they are out of pocket.. that might be why we have higher banking fees

https://www.cibc.com/en/privacy-security/debit-and-credit-card-fraud.html

https://www.interac.ca/en/zero-liability.html

https://www.visa.ca/en_CA/pay-with-visa/security.html

https://www.mastercard.ca/en-ca/about-mastercard/what-we-do/terms-of-use/zero-liability-terms-conditions.html

 

Edited July 9, 2019 by Rywokast

[MaxLinux]

An interesting article related to this discussion popped up in my notifications today

https://www.cnet.com/news/more-than-1000-android-apps-harvest-your-data-even-after-you-deny-permissions/

As a KS18XL user, I recognize the app could be designed better in its permission requirements, but I also don't think King Song devised this with nefarious intentions. As several have already commented, app development seems to be a weak area for most EUC companies.

[Micheal Shen]

46 minutes ago, MaxLinux said:

An interesting article related to this discussion popped up in my notifications today

https://www.cnet.com/news/more-than-1000-android-apps-harvest-your-data-even-after-you-deny-permissions/

As a KS18XL user, I recognize the app could be designed better in its permission requirements, but I also don't think King Song devised this with nefarious intentions. As several have already commented, app development seems to be a weak area for most EUC companies.

Yeah, most of EUC companies are weak in app development. Bcz a good APP team need 10 person to develop, with 4~6 months designing. The cost is 60~200K usd. It's not a small money.

Kingsong APP conform to Personal and Sensitive Privacy Information Policy required by Google and Apple company. If you worry about this, you can send email to Google or Apple company to check.

 

Personal opinion:

XXX Government use Android and IOS system to spy other coutries' people, but XXX people worry about that other countries company use APP to spy XXX users. It sounds weird. We trust XXX government will not use those privacy information for malicious purposes. Btw, XXX governments is the first one to spy people's privacy information, of all countries over the world. Why do XXX people think this is normal, while China APP get such information is abnormal?

[Benphysics]

On 7/6/2019 at 10:36 PM, gon2fast said:

get a non-contract phone and run the app on that. If you spent $1800+ on the wheel, what is $100 more? 

That is definitely the best solution by far. The main reason I posted this thread, is to inform those for whom this would be a problem. On the other hand, I still feel that they are going too far requesting to have control over every aspect of your device just to unlock the wheel. Hey, give me a break; if you are concern about the unit turning on in transport, just disconnect the battery, and save me all that BS.

[Benphysics]

18 hours ago, atdlzpae said:

1. In some countries mobility devices have to have their speed limited to be street legal.

2. Sometimes you want to limit your own speed - for example I feel comfortable on my KS16S at > 30km/h, but i know that I should ride it at < 25km/h.

3. You may want to limit the speed when you rent the wheel for a newbie.

 

Edward Snowden: "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say."

You are hilarious; but right nonetheless.

Cheers

[Rywokast]

Just now, Benphysics said:

That is definitely the best solution by far. The main reason I posted this thread, is to inform those for whom this would be a problem. On the other hand, I still feel that they are going too far requesting to have control over every aspect of your device just to unlock the wheel. Hey, give me a break; if you are concern about the unit turning on in transport, just disconnect the battery, and save me all that BS.

i just want to be clear that although its not a problem for me personally.. i do think its absolutely ludicrous to require ANY app whatsoever to control an EUC... if you ask me it should come as advertised, fully unlocked speed set to max no alarms at 20 or 35 or whatever else, and if YOU decide, then you can get an app and configure settings... as far as im aware though, for some ridiculous reason every single euc that i know of requires you to use an app to unlock its potential

[Benphysics]

3 minutes ago, Rywokast said:

i just want to be clear that although its not a problem for me personally.. i do think its absolutely ludicrous to require ANY app whatsoever to control an EUC... if you ask me it should come as advertised, fully unlocked speed set to max no alarms at 20 or 35 or whatever else, and if YOU decide, then you can get an app and configure settings... as far as im aware though, for some ridiculous reason every single euc that i know of requires you to use an app to unlock its potential

In any case, if the app would be internal only, such as a remote, the programming would take mere days, or a months at worst. I have a brother who's a system analyst; and it is impressive what he can program in a matter of hours. He programmed a 3D chess game with two friends within a week just for fun. No one has ever beaten their game. The best who tried it, don't go past 5 or 6 moves; then checkmate. So the idea that it costs hundreds of thousands of dollars to set a dozen parameters is grossly exaggerated. They just don't care, or they are programming illiterates. Or is it that the outrageous permissions are for an underlying purpose?